Star Trek is back!!!

[gadgetguy]

Well don't forget Seven of Nine's parents met the borg apparently WAY before the TNG crew did. If Voyager had the science logs why didn't the Enterprise D crew?? All they would have had to do was do a federation term search for artifical lifeforms and they would have found all the cataloged anamolies. And boom - all the secrets.

Voyager did not have the science logs before leaving home. They acquired them in the delta quadrant when they found Seven's parents ship. And Q sending the Enterprise-D to meet the borg was how Starfleet became aware of them, but not how the Borg became aware of Humans. Remember Starfleet was shocked that the Borg attacked long before they should have. They had in fact already attacked outposts along the Romulan neutral zone long before Q interfered.

[yoda313]

Oh so they got the logs off of the raven?? That would make sense. I was always under the impression starfleet had them.

[j1d10t]

More on Star Trek XI from startrek.com:

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/16011.html

[vhelp]

Gynen (sorry, name spelling throws me) she said that her people "..was spread
across the galaxy.." thanks to the Borg.

Back then, I often wondered "where" did this take place ??
And, how far from the Federation (earth) were they, etc. ??


>> Remember Starfleet was shocked that the Borg attacked long before they
should have. and then.. They had in fact already attacked outposts along
the Romulan neutral zone long before Q interfered.

This confuses me.. I don't recall ever seeing this Episode # ? stating this. But..

In another thought elsewheres..
I recall on Voyager, where the (2 part) series were consentrating on 7of9 's parents
and how they were studying the Borg by following it. The story partly started with the
parents geornying to a FAR out distant part of the galaxy for something like 9 months
in deep space, (a part of Star Fleets blessings to study that part of the alaxay/region,
I think) and when it almost seemed like they were deciding on wheather to turn back (due
to depleating of resources) it was *THEN* when they came into partial/visual (my assumption)
contact with them on long-rang scannors or something.

But, I do remember when the Husband said something like, when they had first came
into somewhat visual view of them, (and in so many words) .. "..there were stories
and myths about this rase of beings existing, but weren't sure they were ever true.."

This scene w/ the Husband, had happend LONG before "Q" had wirled the Enterprise into
the Delta ? quatdrant. Maybe something like 20 years prior to this "Q" event. And,
the Husband says what I noted in "" 's. ..that he heard rumors of the Borg. So
something must have changed event'wise along the time line.

Somewhere in the time-line..
I'm trying to remember (in the series) where they time-traveled somewheres, and that
this was the actual cause of the Borg becoming knowing of Human exhistance. Maybe I'm
confusing bits and pieces of certain events from various Episodes. Or, maybe it *was*
"Q" that upset the balane of the time-line.

But, somewhere along the line, I can't help feel that even though "Q" had brought their
existance to the Borgs' knowledge, that soemthing else was responsible for bringing the
Borg into close proximity, by evidense of the out-post attacks (talked about in previous
posts)

-vhelp 4019

[yoda313]

The outpost attack was a reference to the end of season 1 TNG. That was where they picked up the frozen 20th century humans.

The federation and romulan outposts were "scooped up" just like system j25 in best of both worlds and q who.

As far as the voyager time line - that had to have been "fabricated". Because if that was linearily before season 1 tng then they wouldn't have any notion of them. AND they didn't have a name for the BORG until season 2 Q WHO. So how would they have any idea it was a cube ship or they were cibernitc??? (SP??).

[vhelp]

As far as the voyager time line - that had to have been "fabricated". Because if that was linearily before season 1 tng then they wouldn't have any notion of them. AND they didn't have a name for the BORG until season 2 Q WHO. So how would they have any idea it was a cube ship or they were cibernitc??? (SP??).

Hmm.. interesting. Me thinks there is a "ripple" in the space time continuim
Actually, seems to be a contridition between TNG and Voyager accounts.

Beacause, if you remember, Q 's Enterprise toss to Delta quandrant, A) happened
before Voyager's toss to Delta Quandrant (hmm.. what a coensidense, this tossing
around thing) anyways.. and, B) the 7of9 's flash-back of her Parents were done
during her [7of9] very early childhood. I think she was around 7 years old.
hmm.. another coensidense ?? "7". So, that would account for the difference in
years, when I posted a sugested approx 20 years apart, comment.. where the Borg
(approx 20 years before the Q event) were already being studied on 7of9 's parent's
research ship, the Ravin.

So, the Q event happend *after* 7of9 's parents research of the Borg during her
childhood *and* before Voyager was tossed into the Delta quandrant.

In one take, at the end of the episode, where Picard is at his staff tabel (or in
his ready-room) and he states in a very mysterious and awakened mode, "..in a way,
Q had spun up our existance to the Borg too soon, but on the other hand, he also
gave us the time now, to prepare for what awates.. They're coming !! "

-vhelp 4021

[yoda313]

I think it all comes down to a simple reason - they needed to have it happen for their story. It was constructed. Otherwise it doesn't make sense if you hold TNG as the true source of all BORG knowledge.

The Enterpise series botched the history so badly they don't even count with that pathetic borg episode.

Basically I think they just "reinvented" some history to make it work with 7 of 9. Which is ok it just brings up all these questions.

[Robbins1940]

It is just fiction. You aren't supposed to take it seriously.

[gadgetguy]

The Enterpise series botched the history so badly they don't even count with that pathetic borg episode.

People keep saying this, but I don't get it. In what way did Enterprise botch the history? The way I remember it, the Borg episode awakened some residuals from Star Trek: First Contact. They escaped earth and travelled back to their own space, presumably in the Delta quadrant which took them 70 some years. If they turned around immediately to return to Federation space it would take them another 70 some years, bringing them back somewhere in Picard's time. The people in Archer's time had no idea who or what the Borg were, and there was limited exposure so it would have been a small footnote in the records that would easily be missed by future generations looking for information and probably wouldn't be recognized even if it was found.

[Doramius]

It is just fiction. You aren't supposed to take it seriously.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! My world has now collapsed on me. I'm in an emotional wreck and feel an onslaught of depression feeding my morbid thoughts of isolation and loneliness. My galaxy has now closed in on itself and I can no longer bear it.

[gadgetguy]

It is just fiction. You aren't supposed to take it seriously.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! My world has now collapsed on me. I'm in an emotional wreck and feel an onslaught of depression feeding my morbid thoughts of isolation and loneliness. My galaxy has now closed in on itself and I can no longer bear it.

Ignore Robbins1940, Doramius, he's obviously mentally unstable.

[Robbins1940]

[quote="gadgetguy"][quote="Doramius"]

Ignore Robbins1940, Doramius, he's obviously mentally unstable.

Don't get me wrong, I like Star Trek esp TNG but I like Blake's 7 even more and that series taught me that the bad guys sometimes win.

But you know what? Both are based on fiction and both are not real.

I don't even watch TV that much anymore, it is so depressing.

[gadgetguy]

I'm also a fan of Blake's 7. I used to watch it on my local PBS station years ago. Columbia house offered it on Video tape so I ordered it and half way through the series they told me my collection was complete. When I complained that it was only half of the series they told me it was all they carried. I have been looking for the rest ever since, buying them one or two at a time but have only gotten up to volume 20 (Terminal/Rescue). Do you know of a source for unopened tapes of the rest of the series?

[Robbins1940]

All 4 seasons of Blakes 7 are available on DVD(your player must be capable of playing PAL discs and multi region). Take a look on Ebay.

[gadgetguy]

Thanks, but I'm looking for the NTSC VHS tapes.

[Robbins1940]

As far as I know all 26 tapes were released in the US but why would you want them in poor NTSC format when they are in pristine condition displayed in the original PAL on DVD?

[gadgetguy]

To complete a collection I've already started.
All 26 were released in the US, but Columbia House only sold Volumes 1-15, which they didn't state before I ordered the series from them.

[Robbins1940]

Have you looked on Ebay?

[gadgetguy]

Yes. But I'm not a big fan of Ebay and I don't trust the offerings that are available for the episodes I want. I've purchased some of them through Amazon, but availability is spotty. I'd prefer to purchase through a retailer but because of the age, it's hard to find one.

[j1d10t]

The way I remember it, the Borg episode awakened some residuals from Star Trek: First Contact. They escaped earth and travelled back to their own space, presumably in the Delta quadrant which took them 70 some years.

Actually, the ship that the Borg were on was destroyed, but not before they could get a signal off, which T'Pol said was sent in the direction of the Delta quadrant. So they were only signaling the rest of the collective, they never actually made contact.

The people in Archer's time had no idea who or what the Borg were

Exactly. They had no idea they were called the Borg. Archer says that after re-reading some of Zefram Cochrane's speeches he (Zefram Cochrane) starts to ramble and says something about a cybernetic species.

and there was limited exposure so it would have been a small footnote in the records that would easily be missed by future generations looking for information and probably wouldn't be recognized even if it was found.

Very true. It pretty much stuck to the story laid out in TNG.

And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in the NG episode where Q introduced us to the Borg (It was Q Who, wasn't it?) that after Q throws the Enterprise through space Wesley says that it would take them approx. 1 year to reach Starbase 001 at maximum warp. So that would mean that they encounter the Borg a lot closer than the Delta quadrant. And then isn't it in the next season that they had The Best of Both Worlds?

[yoda313]

Actually it was the delta quadrant but the for Voyager they made the "home space" of the borg a lot, lot farther away than that episode indicated.

[Doramius]

Actually it was the delta quadrant but the for Voyager they made the "home space" of the borg a lot, lot farther away than that episode indicated.

Borg will be Borg. :P

[gadgetguy]

And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in the NG episode where Q introduced us to the Borg (It was Q Who, wasn't it?) that after Q throws the Enterprise through space Wesley says that it would take them approx. 1 year to reach Starbase 001 at maximum warp. So that would mean that they encounter the Borg a lot closer than the Delta quadrant. And then isn't it in the next season that they had The Best of Both Worlds?

Actually Data responds that "at maximum warp, it will take 2 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours to reach starbase 185" (wherever that is).

Edit: I don't think Q sent them to the Delta quadrant. They immediately identify a charted system and they only encounter a single Borg ship. I suspect Q just sent them to the nearest Borg which was a lot closer than their home space.

Edit Edit: Q Who is in the second season and Best of Both Worlds Part 1 is the season finale for season 3.

[Robbins1940]

And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in the NG episode where Q introduced us to the Borg (It was Q Who, wasn't it?) that after Q throws the Enterprise through space Wesley says that it would take them approx. 1 year to reach Starbase 001 at maximum warp. So that would mean that they encounter the Borg a lot closer than the Delta quadrant. And then isn't it in the next season that they had The Best of Both Worlds?

Actually Data responds that "at maximum warp, it will take 2 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours to reach starbase 185" (wherever that is).

Edit: I don't think Q sent them to the Delta quadrant. They immediately identify a charted system and they only encounter a single Borg ship. I suspect Q just sent them to the nearest Borg which was a lot closer than their home space.

Edit Edit: Q Who is in the second season and Best of Both Worlds Part 1 is the season finale for season 3.

I suspect there is about 18 months between the two episodes.

[ricardouk]

Going back to the past again? whats on their minds? why not make a new film with the DS9/Voyager crew in the "future" this whole past thing is ruining the Star trek "concept/universe"

with some proper battle/action scenes?

[Robbins1940]

Makes you wonder if they have ran out of story ideas doesn't it?

Star Trek has become a victim of its own success.

That is why the series needs about 15 to 20 years in the wilderness to regenerate and be anew or it will die a death.

[Doramius]

Actually Star Trek has been doing well on it's success. When BIG GENE died, they messed with his formula and made the prequel and tampered with existing hit shows. Writers are the ones to blame for its stall. Without a brain, writers tend to be creative. Creative writers give you things like Brokeback Mountain and Fonzy going waterskiing.

[vhelp]

Evening guys

I was wondering.. When (or where) did we learn of the Borg's slipstream capability
(reliving Voyager as the stepping stone toward Borg explanation, etc) where this
is suppose to be, (70 thousand light years) to days; or months only space travel
back home vs. 70 years for the trip back home.

gadgetguy wrote:

Edit: I don't think Q sent them to the Delta quadrant. They immediately identify a charted system and they only encounter a single Borg ship. I suspect Q just sent them to the nearest Borg which was a lot closer than their home space.

This makes much more sense, and I retract my error where I believe I misslead to
the conclusion that the Enterpise was toosed way over into the Delta Quandrant.
As I was saying.. and when Wesly (or Data) noted the length in time to read xxx,
would bring more clarity to the weight and scope of events

What Q did was push the knowledge of Earth/Humans into the Borgs laps way before
they should have (in their time) and that is was got the ball rolling w/ the Borg
and finally, when they *did* come in very close contact with Earth and thing began
to unfold, etc. I'm thinking that the only reason for the Borg closing in on Earth
was on account of this "slipstream" space travel technowlegy. They must have had it,
even before Voyager was toosed into the Delta Quadrant. And, that would help to
explain why the Borg made early contact with Earth (or closest outpost, thereof)
thus so.

And Gynen's statement (I made earlier) makes much more sense, cause they could have
been in or near that area that Q tossed the Enterprise to.

-vhelp 4028

[gadgetguy]

What Q did was push the knowledge of Earth/Humans into the Borgs laps way before
they should have (in their time) and that is was got the ball rolling w/ the Borg
and finally, when they *did* come in very close contact with Earth and thing began
to unfold, etc. I'm thinking that the only reason for the Borg closing in on Earth
was on account of this "slipstream" space travel technowlegy. They must have had it,
even before Voyager was toosed into the Delta Quadrant. And, that would help to
explain why the Borg made early contact with Earth (or closest outpost, thereof)
thus so.

I think that was an erroneous assumption that Picard/Starfleet made that led them to be so surprised that the Borg showed up "early". I think the Borg were already aware and on their way before the Q Who encounter and that the only difference it made in their plans was the method of attack (using Picard to be the "face" of the Borg).
My take on the slipstream technology is that it is a construct that has to be manufactured and the initial venture into new territories is made at normal Warp speeds and the initial ship sets up the far end of the slipstream conduit. This is mostly speculation because if I recall correctly it was never really explained.

[j1d10t]

Here is something else to think about: Starfleet must have known about the Borg prior to the episode Q Who, because in the movie Generations the Enterprise B is called to help a ship (2 actually) of Guinan's species (El-Aurians) who were refugees after the Borg destroyed their world. Surely they told the Federation/Starfleet about the Borg then. I mean, does the Federation/Starfleet not ask questions like "What happened to your planet?" and "Who destroyed it?" or "Why can't you people go home?" It doesn't really make sense for the El-Aurians to withhold that information from the Federation/Starfleet....