PAL through JVC HR-S9911U

[Pat Brown]

I am trying to convert an old PAL VHS tape to NTSC. I got a Samsung SV5000-W worldwide to do the conversion. As far as I know there are no filters, TBC etc. built into this machine, but it does convert the PAL into an NTSC signal so this will be the play back machine.

Composite is the only output option. It kills me to have to use this machine while I have a JVC HR-S9911U sitting right there doing nothing. The only other equipment I have between this VCR and my Canopus ACEDVio is a Sima color corrector, SCC-2. Would it be possible to use the JVC as a pass through, utilizing the TBC and image stabilizer?

I am also hoping someone could comment on the quality of conversions this Samsung does. I can send the signal to my card as PAL and let the software convert to NTSC if that is necessary.

[lordsmurf]

Samsung can range from excellent to crappy. I bought a JVC HR-S7965EK (PAL S-VHS, comparable to the SR-V10U, 7900 or 9900) several years ago because of that fact. I kept the Samsung, it still does good a bit of the time.

[victoriabears]

Wow this ntsc> pal subject gets a lot of airing in this forum.

If you only have a one off why not let a professional company do it?

I have tried the samsung/panasonic ag w1(4 times the price new) and the Tenlab unit.

The samsung is the worst for playing tapes but it does vary,but could be used for playing the vhs tape on a better PAL machine if you have one, using the samsung as a passthrough just to convert,that sometimes gave great results. The panasonic is great but pricey and the tenlab about the same.

Myself I have sold all my conversion gear for the following reasons:-

1: Best way is to convert to DVD in the original broadcast format and get a cheap dvd player which converts.

2: The quick infoedit method works on a lot of dvd players

3: Canopus procoder express does a good job of converting, and its about C$90

My 2 cents worth.

[lordsmurf]

That's a good point v-bears.

I bought a cheap DVD recorder that does PAL recording (not many machines will do this, mostly just some unknown branded cheap ones) pretty decent. I only use XP mode on it, record in chunks if it's longer, then re-encode in Procoder to smaller PAL files and author a PAL DVD. PAL DVDs play in most NTSC players.

Rarely do I have to actually convert, usually only because I have to make something from mixed worldwide sources and have no alternative. In a few cases, I actually found it easier to convert NTSC to PAL than PAL to NTSC, so I made PAL output from mixed sources.

[Pat Brown]

Not a one off. I have a small collection of PAL tapes. Many movies never got a VHS release for NTSC players, much less for DVD. I don't buy bootlegs and I don't want to worry about the format.

The samsung is the worst for playing tapes but it does vary,but could be used for playing the vhs tape on a better PAL machine if you have one, using the samsung as a passthrough just to convert,that sometimes gave great results.

I have heard this before. I am wondering if passing the NTSC converted signal through my JVC would help the image at all. I guess I will have to experiment.

PAL DVDs play in most NTSC players.

I thought that you needed a PAL TV to watch PAL video. If I burn this to DVD as a PAL MPEG this will play on any TV? The DVD player converts it to NTSC?

This is a hobby. Of course if all else fails I will have to just send off to the pros, but that wouldn't be as much fun I don't think.

[lordsmurf]

It plays it in a quasi-state.

I've had two things explained to me, both conflicting:
-- #1 Framerate is left alone, but the color palette is very saturated NTSC, sort of a NTSC-50.
-- #2 It "converts" the signal, including framerates, but I do not see how this is possible, when you introduce interlaced content, as it does not get deinterlaced, so ... yeah.....

At any rate, PAL on NTSC not an issue on DVD. Most players fine with it, especially anything made in China.

Reverse is true too, for a PAL-60 format, play NTSC discs in PAL land.

[Pat Brown]

Thanks again lordsmurf. You sould write a book and get some money for all the info you dish out on this site.

[Justin42]

The Samsung does a pretty horrible conversion-- about as bad as you can get. (I.e., any other way of doing it looks significantly better) I bought mine, used it on 2-3 tapes, then it broke (Which is a whole other issue-- the thing is NOT reliable and WILL break on you-- first one broke after about 5 hours of use.. second one broke after about 5-6 months of very very light use-- it has a "comet"/sparkling noise glitch... took it for repairs which worked for a few more hours of use until it started up again.. some have speculated the tape feed mechanism is plastic and wears out VERY quickly and that's what causes it). [Yep, I am bitter that I spent that much money on a product that broke and is basically a dust-collector now]

I ended up buying a Panasonic multi-system VCR and an external PAL->NTSC converter box (ComWorld or something semi-generic). It's not high end stuff (only cost about $100 to $150 more than the Samsung) but does a WORLDS better job converting the video. Plus has the added advantage that the ComWorld box is a TBC so it helps the resulting captures quite a bit. (I usually just record to a set-top DVD recorder)

The Samsung does have a mild TBC (very, VERY mild-- my understanding is it HAS to in order to convert each frame from PAL to NTSC-- it renders the frame in RAM then converts to NTSC). If your goal is to capture on the computer I don't know of anything the JVC could do to help you. (does it work as a passthrough TBC?)

[lordsmurf]

I've had my Samsung since 2001, used it dozens of times per year. Worst that ever happened to me was a tape disintegrated on the heads and I had to clean the unit. The Samsung doesn't have anything even remotely close to being a TBC, a cheapo SIMA box is closer to a TBC than anything you'll find in the Samsung. It's just a plain old VHS VCR that does conversion. It operates like pretty much any decent VHS VCR (Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba). And if your tape sucks, expect problems along the way, it's really not made for anything other than a good quality tape. That's why I imported a true PAL JVC S-VHS unit, for playing problem tapes.

I looked into other worldwide VCRs, but ultimately decided they were for the birds.

I also looked into converter boxes, and everything I saw sucked. Those Comworld boxes, for example, do a very harmful drop-frame deinterlace that essentially butchers image quality. It's pretty crappy. A few unknown companies out there, I solicited them for testing their hardware, even offered to drive to one near me, and they all declined. They also had "no return" policies. No testing? No returns? Oh yeah, that sounds like a good product.

I've piped things through the modulated coax output on a Centrios DVD recorder a few times, as well as using the Samsung for conversion, and with the exception of the expensive Snell & Willcox machines, I've found nothing better to date. Well, except for just making PAL DVDs and letting a PAL-capable NTSC player simply play it for you (Cyberhome, LiteOn, JVC, Philips, Apex .... list goes on and on).

[Dr_Layne]

I have found those external PAL to NTSC coversion boxes to be of poor image quality too. I even bought a TenLab one for $$$. It does ok for most tapes unless you have a lot of bright flashing lights like a rock concert light show. Then you start to see artifacts. A Snell/Wilcox convertor is probably the only true proffesional PAL/NTSC convertor, but it costs $10K or more. Kinda outta my price range. I found using software to convert PAL to NTSC works much better when authoring dvd's. Procoder seems to do a decent job. However, I usually author in the same format as the original since my target audience will usually view the dvd on their computer or live in PAL land.