Encoding with Sony Vegas

[Locust7]

Hi all,

I need an advise from Encoding Gurus. I have 15 min. video scene in mpeg2. I would like to encode it in to WMV and MOV 1-2Mb video clips as download option. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[edDV]

File "Render As"
Pick your container
Pick your codec, set preferences

[Locust7]

Thank you for your reply and I apologise for the newby question but it's kind of unclear to what I need to choose in preffrences. I have encoded it in 512 WMA and MOV but ran in to a dilemma creating 1-2Mb clips from the 15 min footage. How do I get 1-2Mb clips from my 15 min. mpeg2 video?


Thanks again.

[edDV]

Thank you for your reply and I apologise for the newby question but it's kind of unclear to what I need to choose in preffrences. I have encoded it in 512 WMA and MOV but ran in to a dilemma creating 1-2Mb clips from the 15 min footage. How do I get 1-2Mb clips from my 15 min. mpeg2 video?


Thanks again.

What project format did you use? What was the original MPeg2 resolution and bitrate?

You probably converted the MPeg to a DV 720x480 25Mb/s project timeline and then compressed that.

Try Virtualdub instead and follow the guides.

[Locust7]

I'll explain what I did step by step.

I have a DVD project that has to be delivered for the Web. DVD needs to be cut in to scenes and encoded in to .WMVs and .MOVs at 512K for Hi connection users and 1-2Mb .WMV and .MOV clips for each scene for Low connection users. I am using Sony Vegas to edit and veggie tool plug-in to batch encode the scenes. Since Vegas now can work with MPEG-2 files, I decided to leave the current MPEG-2 format and go ahead and edit the content as is, so I have minimal compression involved in the process for video quality purposes (don't see a point in converting mpeg2 to dv-avi to wmv and mov if I can edit in the original source and straight batch render it in to any format). I copied the VOB's to my drive and got as I suspected 720x480, Dolby Digital 2 channel 192kbit/s, MPEG-2 Video files. Then I imported MPEG-2 files in to Vegas. Did my editing and created Templates in .WMV and .MOV in 512K. No problems so far. Then I started setting up Templates for short 1-2 Mb .WMV and .MOV clips and didn't find the option to do so. I know it must be there I just don't know where it is. If you can please point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate

Hope this helps...

[edDV]

Vegas can work for MPeg2 but looses a generation. There are better MPeg2 editors.

For output, more options exist in
Microsoft Media Encoder 9 (free) and Quicktime Pro.

[Locust7]

Will I get a better video quality if I capture the DVD via firewire then edit it in Vegas and render it for the Web? I have a DVD player with a DV output so I can capture it easily. So I guess Vegas or the VeggieTool doesn't offer an option to render the scenes in 1-2 Mb clips but WME and Quicktime Pro does? Which Mpeg2 editor do you mean?


Thank you for all your help

[edDV]

Will I get a better video quality if I capture the DVD via firewire then edit it in Vegas and render it for the Web? I have a DVD player with a DV output so I can capture it easily. So I guess Vegas or the VeggieTool doesn't offer an option to render the scenes in 1-2 Mb clips but WME and Quicktime Pro does? Which Mpeg2 editor do you mean?

Are you saying your DVD Recorder will output from the DVD in DV format over IEEE-1394? I didn't know that they did that. Which model?

Or is it transferring a MPeg2 file?

Vegas, like most pro editors won't edit MPeg2 directly. There is no MPeg2 project timeline setting. MPeg2 has to be decompressed to RGB or converted to DV* for editing. Hence the generation loss.

Programs Womble MPEG2VCR and others using "smart render" technology pass captured MPeg2 to the output file for all frames except those decoded for a filter or transition. Thus, no generation loss except for processed frames.

WME and Quicktime Pro have more encoding options than those provided in Vegas.


* Conversion to DV YCbCr as the intermediate format eliminates any potential losses from RGB conversion but the DVD MPeg2 data needs to be decompressed to DV frames and then recompressed back to MPeg2.

[BJ_M]

WME and Quicktime Pro have LESS encoding options than those provided in Vegas. I think you meant to say ....

though it depends on what format you are encoding to ... programs like sorenson squeeze will also have more options than vegas or QT pro for some compression types ...

[edDV]

WME and Quicktime Pro have LESS encoding options than those provided in Vegas. I think you meant to say ....

though it depends on what format you are encoding to ... programs like sorenson squeeze will also have more options than vegas or QT pro for some compression types ...

I was talking specifically about WMV and Quicktime for streaming. Maybe later Vegas updates expanded wmv streaming options. I haven't looked.

[Locust7]

Are you saying your DVD Recorder will output from the DVD in DV format over IEEE-1394? I didn't know that they did that. Which model?


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are expensive but I found a perfect one with the perfect price (highly recommend Pioneer DVR-520H-S) around $500 brand spanking new. No, I don't work for Pioneer :P j/k.

Vegas, like most pro editors won't edit MPeg2 directly. There is no MPeg2 project timeline setting. MPeg2 has to be decompressed to RGB or converted to DV* for editing. Hence the generation loss.


I remember reading somewhere that because of the Sony DVD camera Vegas recently made it available to edit mpeg2's. I thought if I bypass encoding it in to avi’s and encode the saved edited mpeg2 .veg files straight for the Web, I’ll retain the quality of the footage(pls correct me if I am wrong). That is why I just copied the VOB's to my drive and opened the mpeg2 file in Vegas with out any problems. I had absolutely no problems editing mpegs in Vegas and encoding it for the Web. I use Veggie Tool plug-in and it works great for all my batching needs. The problem that I have is I want to encode edited scenes in the way so the scene is broken down in to1-2Mb clips in WMV' and MOV formats.


S.O.S Help please.

[BJ_M]

it does edit mpeg - but what edDV means is that it will re-encode the mpeg ... at this point in time

[edDV]

Right. I'm saying that Vegas, Premiere Pro, etc.etc. are not native MPeg2 editors and must decompress. That is known as loosing a generation.

To the user it looks like you are editing MPeg except you notice alot of CPU and disk activity and these huge temp files grow on your drive.

If your goal is streaming wmv or quicktime, you may never notice the difference in picture quality, but for DVD you might notice.

If you need to use an external encoder, workflow can be important.

Better to do this:
MPeg2->Uncompressed (or DV) timeline ->uncompressed (or DV) AVI file* -> wmv/QT encoder

Than this:
MPeg2->Uncompressed (or DV) timeline ->MPeg2 file -> wmv/QT encoder


* frameserving might be possible eliminating the need for this file.

[Locust7]

it does edit mpeg - but what edDV means is that it will re-encode the mpeg ... at this point in time


Do you mean that once I open the mpeg2 file in Vegas it automaticaly re-encodes which resolts in the loss of video quality? If I capture mpeg2 files as DV-AVI do I loss video quality?

[edDV]

it does edit mpeg - but what edDV means is that it will re-encode the mpeg ... at this point in time


Do you mean that once I open the mpeg2 file in Vegas it automaticaly re-encodes which resolts in the loss of video quality? If I capture mpeg2 files as DV-AVI do I loss video quality?

MPeg2 is a highly compressed format with intraframe DCT compression (like JPG) and interframe compression I, P and B frames (see http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/reframe.php?url=http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/pages/cv..._mpeg2_dvd.htm )

To edit, you need to load the file into your editor. To do that for these programs, it means decompressing MPeg2 back to real frames so that computation can be done. After you do surgery on the frames, then you encode again. That is a generation loss.

"Smart Encoding" means that only the frames actually changed are decompressed. The unprocessed frames are copied from the input file to the output file. That would be considered native MPeg2 editing.

[edDV]

Do you mean that once I open the mpeg2 file in Vegas it automaticaly re-encodes which resolts in the loss of video quality? If I capture mpeg2 files as DV-AVI do I loss video quality?

Yes. It will decompress to what you specify in your project settings and edit that.

Do "File", "New", '"Video Template" and look at the native project settings. MPeg isn't on the list.

[Locust7]

Thank you all. You are all a big + for this forum and I really appreciate your help.

I figured my original dilemma out. Veggie Tool($79) plug-in has an option to render the project in specified time length, so 30 sec of 512K-WMV video results in exactly 2 Mb file. But now you guys got me concern about the video quality. I am happened to be a perfectionist :P

1. So if I get it right, I should capture the DVD footage using my Pioneer DVR-520H-S that offers DV output via FireWire in to Vegas do my edits and batch encode?

2. Is there enough noticeable video quality difference in the way I originally planed to do it (time issue) since it is going to be on the Web?

3. Is there an application that will render mpeg2 in to DV-AVI(if correct) faster then my
DVR(it captures DV at the play speed)?

[BJ_M]

well actually NO codec is on the list in "file -> new"

but many of those ARE mpeg in fact - or could be , such as HDV , HD , video CD , ntsc/pal standard ...

those new templates are for res. mostly and not end codec used (in some cases)

vegas will not re-encode some types of video now (if just cuts) in fact .... premiere will not either if you use the main concept mpeg plug in)

[edDV]

well actually NO codec is on the list in "file -> new"

but many of those ARE mpeg in fact - or could be , such as HDV , HD , video CD , ntsc/pal standard ...

those new templates are for res. mostly and not end codec used (in some cases)

vegas will not re-encode some types of video now (if just cuts) in fact .... premiere will not either if you use the main concept mpeg plug in)

My understanding is DV and HDV are handled in the "Smart Render" way where only processed frames are decompressed and the others are copied over from the input file. You can see that temp files track processed files in size for DV format. I haven't done enough HDV to comment.

As for HD, NTSC and PAL, those are unencoded, uncompressed frames intended for I/O as component SMPTE-259M C/D (SDI) and SMPTE-292M for high def. along these lines
http://www.miranda.com/library.en/Digital%20Standards/Std_BW_booklet.pdf

Premiere Pro can take the optional Mainconcept MPeg2 Pro timeline to create a "smart render" environment for MPeg2.
http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_pro.shtml

The addition of this package results in new project settings in the template menu