Another Option to fix Overscan

[Maikeru-sama]

Hi forum.

Making DVDs is pretty much a hobby of mine and every now and then I have been plagued with Subs that do not show properly on the TV Screen when converted to a DVD. I tried all the Manual and OCR tools but when you are talking about 40-80 Episodes series with subs that dont show correctly then those tools are just not an option.

I have done extensive searching on the fixes for the Overscan problem. I have seen all the OCR tools, centering, AVISynth Scripts, VCD solutions etc etc. I just wanted to offer another method that one may want to use to fix the Overscan Problem that I have not seen offered on this board.

In TMPGenc Express, I used the CROP Filter to cut off about 10-20 Pixels from the Top of the Movie (original size:720x480). I originally wanted to use the black mask feature in the Crop Filter because I thought I could add black borders to the bottom but that feature overwrites portions of the movie instead of appending to it.

Anyway, it will make it 720x470 (720x460 if you take off 20 from the top) but when I go to the Encode Options I make sure to tell TMPGenc to Encode the video to 720x480. When doing this, TMPGenc Express is going to STRETCH the 720x470 (because you cut 10 or 20 Pixels off of the top) to 720x480 and it will BUMP the subs up because it is stretching a smaller image now.

Yes, I know it is a little extreme to propose for one to cut out 10-20 pixels off the top of a Movie, but you wont notice any difference unless you are being picky because 10-20 pixels is just not that much when you are dealing with an original picture that was 720x480. I have gotten 100% consistent results from 2 Anime Series with subs that don't show up originally (Full Metal Alchemist and Flame of Recca) in the last week using this method.

I cut off 10 Pixels from the top when I can see small parts of the subs on the screen. I cut off 20 Pixels from the top when I cant see the subs at all.

The only problem is that TMPGenc Express takes a really long time to encode even with CBR (1 pass) but there is nothing that is more frustrating then being sucked into a series and then you get to later episodes and you cant see the subs .

Anyway, I just wanted to propose another option for this particular problem. I can post pics or whatever if someone would like to use this.

- Mike G.

[Maikeru-sama]

Forgot, I always test my DVDs on 2 separtate televisions and the results are consistent.

[celtic_druid]

So you aren't just cutting pixels, you are also stretching the image? It wouldn't be any more work really to get TMPGEnc to add a border.

[Maikeru-sama]

So you aren't just cutting pixels, you are also stretching the image? It wouldn't be any more work really to get TMPGEnc to add a border.

Where in TMPGenc would I add a Black Border? In TMPGenc Express, there is an option to add a black border in the CROP Filter but as I stated, that overwrites the Movie as oppose to appending too it.

[jagabo]

Install AVISynth. Use FitCD to create an AVISynth script with a black border of the required size. Open that AVISynth script in TMGPEnc. Encode.

If you don't want to install AVISynth (it has better resizing filters than TMPGEnc) then set TMPGEnc's "Video Arrange Method" to "Center (custom size)" and enter the width and height that FitCD gives you.

[Maikeru-sama]

Install AVISynth. Use FitCD to create an AVISynth script with a black border of the required size. Open that AVISynth script in TMGPEnc. Encode.

If you don't want to install AVISynth (it has better resizing filters than TMPGEnc) then set TMPGEnc's "Video Arrange Method" to "Center (custom size)" and enter the width and height that FitCD gives you.

Yeah, I have seen that technique discussed. I am going to stick with the method I discussed as it only requires one piece of software.

I was searching in this orum and now I am starting to wonder if I can just use WinAvi to do the clipping for me, since that is my tool of choice to encode to MPEG-2 anyway.

Im always looking for something faster and more simpler.

[jagabo]

I was searching in this orum and now I am starting to wonder if I can just use WinAvi to do the clipping for me, since that is my tool of choice to encode to MPEG-2 anyway.

You don't want to clip. You want to add a black border all around the picture so the black border falls in the televisions overscan region, not the edges of the movie.

[Maikeru-sama]

I was searching in this orum and now I am starting to wonder if I can just use WinAvi to do the clipping for me, since that is my tool of choice to encode to MPEG-2 anyway.

You don't want to clip. You want to add a black border all around the picture so the black border falls in the televisions overscan region, not the edges of the movie.

I have tried this on 2 Anime series that have over 50 episodes each that had problems with subs not showing. Im sure your method is full proof but the method I mentioned above has been full proof as well.

I just tested it on the DVD I just created for Flame of Recca Anime and the results were great on both of my TV sets.

I am currently doing the technique I spoke of in my first post with WinAvi. If WinAvi can do the cropping, then I wont have to use TMPGenc, which makes the process faster.

[jagabo]

I am currently doing the technique I spoke of in my first post with WinAvi. If WinAvi can do the cropping, then I wont have to use TMPGenc, which makes the process faster.

There will probably be a few subtitles that are too wide -- they'll be clipped at the edges. You can probably live with that though.

[Maikeru-sama]

There will probably be a few subtitles that are too wide -- they'll be clipped at the edges.

No, because when I clip about 10-20 pixels from the top, depending on how bad the subs are showing, I still make sure it encodes to 720x480. That means it is going to stretch a 720x470 to 720x480 resulting in the embedded subs being pulled up. And remember, I am only croping from the Top, so it only affects the Height, not the width, which is the desired effect.

Again, this has been tried on Full Metal Alchemist (51 episodes), Getbackers (49 Episodes), and currently Flame of Recca which has 42 Episodes.

All of these had subs that either didnt show at all and with the case with FMA, barely showed. After I did the "Crop and Stretch", all of the Subs were pulled up. And the DVDs were tested on 2 separate TV Sets.

The only downfall is TMPGenc takes forever to encode. But as I stated, there is a thread in this section that just showed me WinAvi can Crop and Stretch too, and I am currently encoding MPEG-2s using the feature which will make it even faster to make a DVD.

[jagabo]

There will probably be a few subtitles that are too wide -- they'll be clipped at the edges.

No, because when I clip about 10-20 pixels from the top, depending on how bad the subs are showing, I still make sure it encodes to 720x480. That means it is going to stretch a 720x470 to 720x480 resulting in the embedded subs being pulled up. And remember, I am only croping from the Top, so it only affects the Height, not the width, which is the desired effect.

I understand what you're doing. But since your video is improperly subtitled for TV some of the lines are likely to be too long and will be cut off by the TV's overscan at the left and right edges. That's why you normally shrink both the width and height and add black borders all the way around.

[celtic_druid]

What you would want is resize, then set to center (custom size) and you can shrink it to say 688X448. Really though using AVISynth should give you faster encoding times.

[FulciLives]

FitCD is freeware and takes all of a couple of minutes to properly set up. It requires AviSynth but AviSynth is also freeware and both FitCD and AviSynth install very easily.

As I said FitCD only takes a couple of minutes to properly set up and then it creates an AviSynth AVS file for you.

You simply open this Avisynth AVS file into your encoder ... such as TMPGEnc Express.

How hard is that? You don't have to learn how to use AviSynth at all which I realize is a "scary" thing for some. All you need to learn is how to use FitCD and that is not hard at all to do. As for time ... well it only adds like maybe 2 minutes or so to the process.

Anyways FitCD is very simple and easy to do and will do things CORRECTLY instead of just chopping off X number of pixels from the image and then stretching it which doesn't even make any sense truth be told!

You are being beyond lazy and/or are ignorant of how easy it is to do it correctly.

As far as using FitCD I wrote a mini-guide in another thread ... here is the link:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=296341

When using FitCD you have 4 options for adjusting the TV OVERSCAN. You can pick "0" which is no adjustment or you can pick 1, 2 or 3 with 3 being the largest adjustment for TV OVERSCAN. I find that with most sources that have subs that the "2" setting is enough and rarely will you have to use the "3" setting.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Maikeru-sama]

I just proposed another alternative to a solution that seems to drive alot of people crazy. That is the beauty of the Internet, if you do enough research, it will show you MANY ways to skin a cat.

Anyways FitCD is very simple and easy to do and will do things CORRECTLY instead of just chopping off X number of pixels from the image and then stretching it which doesn't even make any sense truth be told!

It has worked for me each time I have done it. It is just like having an image in Photoshop that is 720x480. If I remove 10-20 Pixels from the Top of the image, your not drastically altering the image at all, you just removed 10-20 Pixels.

As for the your "LAZY" comment....

As I stated, making DVDs is a hobby of mine and thus i'm already forced to use a seemingly endless amount of Software Programs depending upon the situation presented such as: TMPGenc Expres/DVD Author, DVD Lab Pro, Xilisoft, WinAvi, DBPowerAmp, MKVExtract, MKVNixTool, MKVMerge, DVD Santa, SubTitleDecoder, SubRip, Nero 7, Virtual Dub, VirtualModDub, endless number of Codecs, DirectShow, MediaPlayer, OGMToAvi, DVDXCopy, DVDShrink, Subtitle Workshop, DVDDecrypter etc etc etc.

So you will have to forgive me if I hesitate when presented with 2 more pieces of Software to add to the already exhausting list I am already using. Im sure they are easy to use and I will probably fool around with them this weekend if I get some time so as to have an alternative to the solution I currently use in case I have problems with TMPGenc during Encode.

Again, this thread was started to share more knowledge and give others another possible alternative for Overscan issues.

Now that I have found a solution for the Overscan problem that works for me, now I all I need to do is find a SUITABLE solution to the MKV/Audio Sync Problem.

Thanks

- Mike G.

[celtic_druid]

I thought the whole point of working with video as a hobby was using all the tools, encoding, etc. In other words the process is 99% of the fun. The easy fast way is not the point unless all you want to do is download stuff for free and watch it on a TV.

If your mkv's are VFR, then the audio and video won't be the same length when demuxed.

No more complicated really to use the resize filter instead as I suggested and at the end of the day you don't get distorted (cropped and stretched) video.

[jagabo]

So you will have to forgive me if I hesitate when presented with 2 more pieces of Software to add to the already exhausting list I am already using.

I, and others, gave a single program solution using software you already have.

[Maikeru-sama]

I thought the whole point of working with video as a hobby was using all the tools, encoding, etc. In other words the process is 99% of the fun. The easy fast way is not the point unless all you want to do is download stuff for free and watch it on a TV.

Actually, I stated that using TMPGenc to encode because of the Crop filter was very slow and thus I would always be looking find other techniques. Yes, Authoring DVDs that I have either recorded on my DVD Recorder or downloaded for FREE is a hobby but like most, free time is limited. And Yes, I do like downloading stuff for free like the other 100% of other posters on this site.

If your mkv's are VFR, then the audio and video won't be the same length when demuxed.

Right. I got a glimpse of hope when I was able use DVD Santa to convert to DVD. Unfortunately, DVD Santa does not work with AAC Audio and that is where I am at the moment.

[celtic_druid]

Surely it does if you have an aac decoder like coreaac installed? I assume it is using directshow for input and doesn't have its own mkv parser?

[Maikeru-sama]

Surely it does if you have an aac decoder like coreaac installed? I assume it is using directshow for input and doesn't have its own mkv parser?

I dont think I have that. I thought I all needed was to have Real Audio installed?

I will find the Software and install it and see if that fixes the problem. I am assuming it is freeware correct? I downloaded Ghost in the Shell II about 1 year ago in MKV format. I refuse to watch it until I have figured out a consistent method for converting it to DVD .

Oh yeah, when using FitCD and AviSynth, is there a way to CUT TMPGenc out of the mix? That program takes too long to encode. So I guess I am asking, can FitCD and/or AviSynth make MPEG-2 files, as I am unfamiliar with these 2 Software Programs.

Oh, as far as the MKV Parser, that went way over my head . Are you talking about the MKV file or DVD Santa?

- Mike G.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. That appears to be a copyrighted video that was dl'd, (Ghost in the Shell II) and as such, is in violation of our rules.
/ Moderator redwudz

[Maikeru-sama]

What you would want is resize, then set to center (custom size) and you can shrink it to say 688X448. Really though using AVISynth should give you faster encoding times.

I think I missed this post.

I am at work so I have not had the opportunity to read the AviSynth guide. Is that a stand-alone tool or do I have to use it with something like TMPGenc? If so, I was confused on how AviSynth would be faster. I have about 30 more episodes to encode and would like to cut TMPGenc out of the mix.

[Jim44]

AviSynth is a frameserver, to do various processing/editting which then is passed to an encoder (like TMPGEnc).

I've been using AviSynth a lot to frameserve to TMPGEnc, since the TV I tend to watch a lot of video/IPTV on has a very bad overscan issue. Once I've written one script, I just re-use it, merely substituting the new video file name. Very easy.

I haven't noticed slow encoding. On the contrary, it seems that since using AviSynth to frameserve, I'm getting pretty close to a 1:1 encode time in TMPGEnc. My script is pretty simple, just doing a resize and adding borders.

My 2 cents,
Jim

[Maikeru-sama]

Holy Cow!!!!

Fellas, I downloaded AviSynth and FitCD. I was watching one of my Full Metal Alchemist episodes and appearantly overlooked it as it was one of the defective AVIs as far as the Subs were concerned.

I had no idea that you could substitute an "avs" file in place of the actuall MPEG or AVI? My head was spinning when you all kept saying it would save a lot of time because I was thinking I would still have to use TMPGenc Xpress, which is slow. After I made the AVS file, I started wondering if my favorite encoder, WinAviConverter could accept that format and what do you know, it did.

Here is the before pic:


Here is the sub after using the FitCD method:


Looks like I have a new favorite software

Thanks

- Mike G.

[jagabo]

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

[jimmalenko]

Well pardon the french but ...


Hopefully you'll leave your head pulled outta your ass from now on


This is a backhanded compliment, BTW

[Maikeru-sama]

Well pardon the french but ...


Hopefully you'll leave your head pulled outta your ass from now on


This is a backhanded compliment, BTW

Actually I still stand by my original post. Using FitCD is better but croping the image from the top and stretching worked the same way.

Im not being stubborn, but FitCD is better becasue you can bypass TMPGenc Encoding and dont have to crop the image. If I still had to use TMPGenc to encode, I probably would have just stuck with the above method.

I never said FitCD would not work, I just didnt know if I wanted to learn it or not.

But it is all good, I appreciate the introduction to this software. Just add it to another long list of software one needs to use to get files to DVD.

[jimmalenko]

They don't actually work the same way - the end result might be that you now see your subtitles properly, but there's not a lot of method behind that madness in your first post.


Here's why:
Cropping and stretching destroys the aspect ratio. Sometimes not noticably, other times very noticably.

Resizing and adding black bars keeps the aspect ratio intact if done properly (aka fitCD, avisynth). Mind you you could use the AVISynth script in any encoder, or you could do the whole thing without scripts in tmpgenc (or other), or you can feed the script to tmpgenc (or other) as you have found out.


... and personally I wouldn't touch WinAVI with a 10ft pole - it has been labelled the biggest piece of monkey crap ever by many people here, not to mention the constant abuse of its employees and subsidaries spamming these forums.

You may or may not care - but I do

But I guess the important thing is that YOU are getting the results acceptable to YOU.

[Maikeru-sama]

They don't actually work the same way - the end result might be that you now see your subtitles properly, but there's not a lot of method behind that madness in your first post.


Here's why:
Cropping and stretching destroys the aspect ratio. Sometimes not noticably, other times very noticably.

Resizing and adding black bars keeps the aspect ratio intact if done properly (aka fitCD, avisynth). Mind you you could use the AVISynth script in any encoder, or you could do the whole thing without scripts in tmpgenc (or other), or you can feed the script to tmpgenc (or other) as you have found out.


... and personally I wouldn't touch WinAVI with a 10ft pole - it has been labelled the biggest piece of monkey crap ever by many people here, not to mention the constant abuse of its employees and subsidaries spamming these forums.

You may or may not care - but I do

But I guess the important thing is that YOU are getting the results acceptable to YOU.

Correct.

After watching the episode of FMA which I used FitCD to fix. I realized that FitCD corrects subs vertically and horizontally.

Looks like I lost the Battle and the War .

We shall meet again sir, JK.

- Mike G.

[jimmalenko]

I'd say you WON the knowledge of how to do it properly

[FulciLives]

I feel all warm and fuzzy now

FitCD is a great tool.

In fact I have been recording FULL METAL ALCHEMIST from CARTOON NETWORK but those are dubbed ... however ... I also have the subtitled AVI files and this got me interested in converting the AVI files to MPEG-2 DVD format.

The subtitles on these AVI files are VERY low and at times nearly stretch the entire width of the image (they are 640x480) so I converted the first episode but since I have a 16x9 WS TV I choose to convert them to 16x9 WS format. The benefit of this is that I get to see the entire width of the image this way although they will only look "normal" on a 16x9 WS TV whereas on a 4:3 TV the image will have a "postage stamp" look.

Anyways I was happy with how the first episode turned out as I could see the subtitles completely on my TV. I used a TV OVERSCAN of "2" and remember I converted it to 16x9 WS.

This is what it looks like:



Of course on my TV a bit gets cut off all around but the subtitles are still a good inch or so above the bottom of the TV screen on my 51" 16x9 WS HDTV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Here is what it would look like on a 4:3 TV

[Maikeru-sama]

I got one more question for you guys and I will leave you alone.

39 out of 42 of my current episodes of Flame of Recca have a source of NTSC (29.97), which converted fine.

40-42 are PAL.

My question is when I load them into FitCD, the Source (Left side) checks the PAL checkbox and the Frame Rate at the top is 25 fps (I think it checks PAL on the right too but I am at work so I cant remember).

Do I want to keep the source checked as PAL and leave the frame rate as 25 because FitCD will convert it to NTSC or do I want to uncheck PAL and change the frame rate to 29.97 because non of my DVDs play PAL?

- Mike G.