Buying a new mini dv camcorder

[geek2330]

First post here...

I'm looking to buy a new digital camcorder, out of my present options right now I saw the following at Costco:

1. Panasonic PV-GS2 $350.00
Uses mini tapes, not sure about Panasonic's quality....I assume is good.

2. Sony DCR-HC32BAT $400.00
Uses mini tapes...

3. Panasonic DVD Palmcorder VDR-105 $500.00
I like this option as it uses a mini DVD disk, not sure about quality and recording times you get out of mini DV.
Is it worhty to go DVD instead of mini tapes?

4. JVC Everio HDD Camcorder 30GB GZ-MG30 $700.00
I like the fact that this JVC for $700 has an internal hard drive but it is a bit pricey, is this the "new" technology? Also, is quality/resolution better using internal HDD than DVD?


Any help on this would be appreciated, thanks.

[MJA]

Canon is my top pick

Canon ZR700 Digital Camcorder $289.25 shipped free, Apr 3

Dell Home Electronics and Accessories has the Canon ZR700 miniDV Camcorder 25x optical zoom $399 - 25% off Coupon
Code: $RKF660WCHVB3N Exp 4/6 12am CT or 400 uses - $10 Coupon
Code: X10DHMT?VL6NBS Exp 4/21 = $289.25 shipped free

Additional 2% off when checking out using Dell Preferred Account. Select Credit card as payment to see this offer.

or the Optura 60,or the 600
and be sure to buy extanded warranty


check also this site
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

I don't think alot of the guys around here will advice you to buy a dvd cam or Harddrive cam

[edDV]

DVD camcoders have substantially lower quality and higher editing complexity compared to miniDV tape.

[tmh]

Well, I won't give a specific recommendation as I did my "homework" and bought my mini-Dv camcorder several years ago and am not up to date on what's out there. However, I do have some ideas for what to consider when doing your research.

1. What are you using it for? If it's like many of us, to tape our family, etc. then maybe do some editing and produce DVDs then that's very different than the person who is taking more "staged" shots. Mostly, POOR LIGHTING is standard with home videos, especially spur of the moment stuff. Find a camcorder that excels in poor lighting - mOST ARE AWFUL in these conditions.

2. Mini-DV is very easy to use for editing and can retain high quality through the edit and encode phases. ALWAYS use the highest recording setting if you want decent quality.

3. Optical zoom is FAR more important than "digital zoom" as dig zoom is a loss in quality. I NEVER use the digital zoom on mine.

4. Poor lighting conditions performance - oh.....did I mention that already!!??!!

5. Buy a "wide angle" lens attachment for closer up videos like in a room. It makes a huge difference. My Christmas morning videos are soooo much better now......

Answers to these questions are all over the internet. You can find tons of well written reviews very easily. If you know what's important to you, the reviews will be more meaningful.

[geek2330]

I was reading some reviews and the Sony DCR-HC32BAT has very good and positive feedback from the people that bought it. The reviews say that the low light performace is very good compared to other cameras.

Also, I was under the impression that mini DVD should offer better quality than mini tapes....

[JoJo the Great]

I just got the Canon ZR500 and i like it a lot. It seemed to get the most favorable review on camcorderinfo.com. They claimed it had the best low light picture. Online you can find it for less then $250 but I got mine at bestbuy.com for $285 so I could pick it up. I didn't like that the DVD's are only 30 minutes. The optical zoom is 25x and it has a mic input which was important to me (the ZR600 and 700 don't have the mic input). I haven't started editing yet but I'm sure the firewire will come in handy at that point.

[thecoalman]

Also, I was under the impression that mini DVD should offer better quality than mini tapes....

Under the assumption of the camera being equal except for the compression method, not even close Mini-DV tape can hold over 13+ gigs of data for one hour of video. DVD cams use mpeg which is much more compressed.

[edDV]

As a recording standard, DV (MiniDV or Digital8 cassette) consumer formats are equal to what broadcasters use for news and general recording. The DVCAM and DVCPro broadcast camcorders use the very same DV format. http://www.adamwilt.com/DV.html

DV is 25Mb/s vs 4-9Mb/s for DVD

[terjeber]

First post here...

I'm looking to buy a new digital camcorder, out of my present options right now I saw the following at Costco:

There are a number of things to take into consideration when buying a camcorder. The media formet, miniDV vs DVD etc, the quality of the video, the number of CCDs, the size of the CCDs etc. What you go for depends on your budget and what you want to use the camcorder for.

First things first - don't even think about buying a DVD-based, harddrive-based or solid-state memory based camcorder. They all store the video in DVD quality which is very, very low quality if you want to edit it. That leaves you with miniDV and tapes.

The second thing to think about is video quality. Two things determine video quality apart from the optics. The first is the size of the CCD in the camcorder (not the number of pixels, the physical size in fractions of an inch). The bigger the CCD the better it collects light and therefore the better the quality of the video when shooting in little light. 1/3 inch CCDs are far better (and far more expensive) than 1/6 inch CCDs. The second things that determine video quality is the number of CCDs. One CCD will give decent colors, 3CCDs will give you fantastic colors. Mostly when the number of CCDs go up, the size of the individual CCD goes down (unless your budget is very large). This means that a lot of 3CCD camcorders will have fantastic picture in daylight, but less than ideal picture inside in the evening using candles only.

The third thing to think about is your ambition. What do you want to do? Do you want the ability to be a little creative? If you do, you need a slightly more advanced camcorder, one that allows more manual control. Forget about effects though, in camera effects are horrible things and should never, ever be used for anything. The question is if you can manually change shutter-speeed and aperture. This is important if you want to get creative. If you just want to point and shoot, it is irrelevant. Any camcorder you buy should have one important feature though, the ability to set the white-balance manually. I think they all do, but check it, it is a hugely important feature when you shoot inside.

Fourth is quality of camcorder. The main producers, Sony, Canon, Panasonic, JVC all produce good quality camcorders. No problem. Go with one of the big ones though.

So, any recommendations from me? Of course.

If you can at all fit it into your budget, get a 3CCD camcorder. The color difference is huge compared to a 1CCD camcorder. No comparison whatsoever. I upgraded from a 1 chip Canon and a 1 chip Sony to a 3 chip Panasonic, and I promise you, even though my Panasonic doesn't have the low-light capability of my relatively expensive 1 chip Sony, the difference in color representation is so huge that I will never, ever buy a 1 chip camcorder again. No way!

Also, if you can find one that shoots true 16x9 video, you will thank your self in the future. The format is just way better than good old TV format.

Go to www.camcorderinfo.com to check out the different ones. The only really affordable 3CCD camcorders are from Panasonic. The cheapest are around $500. You will thank your self for spending the extra $200 every time you watch your video though.

I would steer away from the newer 3 CCD Sony camcorders like the DCR-HC1000 they are quite horrible camcorders, but they are also above $1000, which seems to be a little over your budget.

Canon also doesn't have 3CCD camcorders in the sub $1000 range, so you may be out of luck.

If you decide to go for a 1CCD camcorder, go with a Canon or a Sony.

[Sifaga]

good info Terje A. Bergesen

thankyou

[InXess]

I would steer away from the newer 3 CCD Sony camcorders like the DCR-HC1000 they are quite horrible camcorders, but they are also above $1000, which seems to be a little over your budget.

Have you had any experience with it? Could you share?

[Cunhambebe]

I would not buy a miniDV cam. JVC seems to have released a new model that has a built-in 20 GB HD to store the videos. You might be able to record up to 2 hours of video with excellent quality.

[thecoalman]

JVC seems to have released a new model that has a built-in 20 GB HD to store the videos.

Ithink that is what the OP was referring to here:

4. JVC Everio HDD Camcorder 30GB GZ-MG30 $700.00
I like the fact that this JVC for $700 has an internal hard drive but it is a bit pricey, is this the "new" technology? Also, is quality/resolution better using internal HDD than DVD?

It's the same as buying a DVD cam except you get the large HDD instead of having to record to disc which is probably what most of the price for that cam accounts for. I don't see anything in the specs about being able to record in DV-AVI or other formats, just mpeg. Can't say I've seen any comparisons but you can probably get a better Mini-DV cam for that price if you compared them side by side.

[DereX888]

miniDV camcorder most important features:
- lenses (who make them)
- optical zoom (more=better)
- CCD type
- image stabilization
- focus zones
- sensivity of microphones

not important for quality of picture, but nevertheless important feature:
- type of hookups (IN/OUT)


DONT BUY ANY DVD CAMCORDERS if picture quality is important.
Any best dvd camcorders (dvd-ram, dvd-r/rw, mini-dvdr/rw etc) cant even compare to any worst miniDV camcorders quality.
If picture quality is really unimportant to you - get any good videorecording device utilizing SD cards as a storage medium, and recording video at 640x480/30fps. Theyre much smaller than any dvd camcorders, more versatile, and often have more features than dvd camcorders. Also most of new dvd players (and probably all future ones) have built-in SD/MMC reader and ability to play MPEG-4 video.

[terjeber]

I would steer away from the newer 3 CCD Sony camcorders like the DCR-HC1000 they are quite horrible camcorders, but they are also above $1000, which seems to be a little over your budget.

Have you had any experience with it? Could you share?

I do. The picture quality of the Sony is very good, on the other hand Sony has moved away from what made the TRV900 and 950 such great camcorders. Manual controls are removed or made very inaccessible. If you pay this much for a camcorder, you are typically an enthusiast who would like to create excellent video. This means using some of the more advanced features of a camcorder. In the HC1000 Sony either removed these, or worse, made them available only through the touch-screen interface on the LCD, which makes them virtually useless.

This is why I stick with my TRV900 and my Panasonic GS400.

[terjeber]

I would not buy a miniDV cam. JVC seems to have released a new model that has a built-in 20 GB HD to store the videos. You might be able to record up to 2 hours of video with excellent quality.

High quality, editable video, like DV-AVI takes 13G pr hour. This means that you, with 20G of storage, will be able to film a little short of 2 hours of full quality, editable video with the new JVC. This seems good, but what if you are on vacation? You shoot two hours of video the first week, and then what? Do you go out and buy a new camcorder to film the second week? You can't replace the HD. How do you continue shooting?

OK, so you bring your laptop and move the video to it's internal drive. Cool. I have 150 DV tapes with video shot over the last few years. That is some 2TB worth of data. I don't have 2TB worh of diskspace, do you? How do I keep all my old footage? If I get 2TB worth of diskspace, how do I back up my stuff? Seems a JVD HD based camcorder will require I invest in very expensive gear.

[Cunhambebe]

Do you go out and buy a new camcorder to film the second week? You can't replace the HD. How do you continue shooting?

-That's a good question, but I guess 2 hours is a period of time long enough to record more than 1 month of vacation lol Of course, it depends where you go out on vacation - I'm sure if you travel to Long Beach, CA, or even to our own Long Beach in the State of São Paulo, Brazil (that looks so much like the other one, its co-sister); there won't be a lot of things interesting enough to be recorded - lol lol
No, I'm serious. That was just a suggestion. In fact, I totally agree with you, but I won't ever back up this material; I would compress everything (with TMPGEnc of course) to a final format such as MPEG2, burn a good quality DVD and that's all. For the files themselves, I would simply delete them
Good luck!

[edDV]

Concerning the JVC GZ-MG27 HDD camcorder
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027659&pathId=119&page=1

It won't record DV format, only MPeg2. The highest quality setting will fill the hard drive in 4.5 hours. This is essentially the same as DVD recording technology only replacing the DVD writer with a hard drive.

You can also record DV format to a Firestore hard drive from a DV camcorder but this gets expensive. http://www.videoguys.com/FireStore.html

A camcorder is a "Cam" and a "Corder". The various cam issues are discussed above and the cam section quality roughly is proportional to money spent.

The "Corder" issues break down this way. (assuming SD resolution)

High quality (DV format):
-Digital8
-MiniDV/DVCAM

DVD MPeg2 medium quality:
-MiniDVDR
-JVC GZ-MG27 HDD

Lowest quality*
MPeg4 (highly compressed)
MJPEG
Quicktime
WMV

* as implemented in consumer gear. These formats are capable of high quality but are currently being applied for highest compression low quality.

[SingSing]

I saw at JVC web site, there is a mini HD CAM to DVD converter/burner. It also named the internal format of the files in the CAM. So, I will say JVC is not capturing video in DV AVI, or DVD mpeg2.

[edDV]

I saw at JVC web site, there is a mini HD CAM to DVD converter/burner. It also named the internal format of the files in the CAM. So, I will say JVC is not capturing video in DV AVI, or DVD mpeg2.

$200 Everio Share Station CU-VD10 needed to dump to DVD without computer
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/JVC-Updates-Hard-Drive-Everios.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/27/jvc-cu-vd10-everio-share-station-enables-direct-dvd-burning/

Otherwise you use the included "High-Value Software for Windows(R) / Macintosh (Data Management, Editing, and DVD Creation)" to transfer over USB-2 to burn to DVD.

Not clear if this USB-2 transfer works with any other software?

[geek2330]

Thanks guys, great info and feedback.

BTW - that JVC with the internal HDD has a $100 coupon at Costco this week.. 8)

I will research more on the mini DV as it looks they offer better video quality.
I forgot to mention, I need this camera for the "standard" homeowner user but looking good quality videos.
We are going on vacation in June to the Caribbean (about 3 weeks) and want to make sure I get a good quality camera that offer great video quality.

If I get the mini dv that uses the tapes, I will then have to research and learn how to transfer the videos and then record into DVD media, I assume the camcorder brings a cable that I can plug into the pc. BTW, how much time do these mini tapes hold?

Once again, thanks for all the feedback, great forum..

[xxiangg]

I did some research last X-mas when I was interested in JVC HDD model.
It looks like majority camcorders perform very well in bright lighting
condition. The difference is in their performance in low lighting
condition. Frankly, majority camcorders perform poorly when lighting
is not good. I tried Canon and I know it was not as good as I hoped.
I almost bought JVC HDD model, then changed my mind after learning
that it also does poor job in low light. Even if some camcorders say
it is a 3-CCD model, it does not mean that it will does good job in
low light. The only model I heard doing well is some of Sony's model.
But I do not like Sony. So I postponed my purchase.

It seems that the reason it is tough for low light is due to the size
of its CCD. The bigger the CCD, the better in low light. But big size
CCD is very expensive. So when I decide to buy a camcorder with good
low light performance, I found there is not a lot of choice.

[edDV]

I once spent 2.5 weeks in the Caribbean (Guadeloupe - Dominica - Martinique - Puerto Rico) and shot well over 12 hours. A sealed box of tapes is much easier to deal wilth than a laptop computer. Forget editing in the field. I was on a sailboat and wouldn't have risked a good laptop.

You wont be editing in the field anyway. Too much rum for that to work. Leave the laptop home and use tapes.

[DereX888]

exactly.
thats why i repeat myself:

get a miniDV camcorder only (if you care about picture quality), or get some small mpeg-4 640x480/30fps device utilizing SD cards (if you dont care about picture quality).
Anything else is more-less useless and I dont see any other viable choices.