Hell has Frozen Over...

[FulciLives]

I smell a rat ... actually two of them!

It's a grand plan for the two wonderboys to take over completely.

How long until it boils down to Apple hardware running Microsoft software.

What I mean to say is that one day that will be the only choice.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[ROF]

Actually it's intel hardware.

[FulciLives]

Actually it's intel hardware.

You are utterly beyond annoying at times.

Sure Intel makes the CPU and other hardware like motherboards but it is a company like Apple that actually takes that "raw" hardware and "makes" or "puts together" the computer in total and offers it for sale.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[j1d10t]

Sure Intel makes the CPU and other hardware like motherboards but it is a company like Apple that actually takes that "raw" hardware and "makes" or "puts together" the computer in total and offers it for sale.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

A good example would be Dell, or Gateway, right? Same thing; Take hardware they didn't make themselves and put in a computer with their brand name on it

[BJ_M]

was posted already here btw ..... https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1497028#1497028

[TugBoat]

was posted already here btw ..... https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1497028#1497028

Check the times on those posts, I believe you'll come to a different conclusion.

So, after considerable contemplation, I've decided that those people who insist that this will have a negative effect on the Mac Developers (other than possibly the Games Developers) are just as clueless as ever. Gee, Windows emulation on the Mac has existed since the mid '90s, it hasn't effected Mac Developers yet. And Virtual PC is much more convenient than dual booting. So why do people insist that this will have such a negative effect? I've had Windows on my Macs since around '98 and I still haven't invested ONE cent in Windows Programs. If some Company thinks their Mac customers will simply buy the Windows version of their software to continue using it they are in for a rude awaking. Like most Mac users, I only use Windows for the Windows only Custom software that my company had programed in house. For everything else, there is usually a Mac version.

And yes, Games are a different story.

I do however, have a large number of Windows using friends who's only objection to a Mac is that they couldn't use their existing software on a Mac at native speeds. Seems that's not a problem anymore. I can see quite a number of new Mac users on the horizon. And a larger Market share will undoubtedly attract more developers.

Looks like a very positive development to me 8)

[edDV]

I do however, have a large number of Windows using friends who's only objection to a Mac is that they couldn't use their existing software on a Mac at native speeds. Seems that's not a problem anymore. I can see quite a number of new Mac users on the horizon. And a larger Market share will undoubtedly attract more developers.

Looks like a very positive development to me 8)

We can now run Linux or XP on either platform.
But we can only run OSX on MAC hardware.

There is only one block remaining to mix and match freedom.

[lordsmurf]

I hate to bust your bubble there TugBoat, but Mac hardware is really nothing impressive, and it costs twice as much on top of that. There's a number of hardware issues and quality hits compared to the more open-to-3rd-party Windows platform. A lot of graphics and video cards are only for Windows, and the Mac versions are usually stripped down a bit and slightly outdated, with far fewer choices.

[TugBoat]

What bubble?
I'm well aware of the hardware on both sides. And the new Macs have basically the exact same hardware as the PC world. That's why you can now boot Windows, Linux, and a few other x86 boot CDs on a new Mac. All they needed was a Firmware update.

The difference is the OS. And I know a few people who are tired of the constant Internet attacks against their Windows PC. Whereas using a Mac on the net is fairly safe right now. It also appears that Redmond is a little more DRM happy than Cupertino at this time. Most people I know just want away from Windows.

I'm also aware that only the Pro tower Mac owners can even consider upgrading their graphics card. The other Macs are NON-Upgradable, as in built-in graphics. The Video card situation on the towers will improve drastically since Apple finally buried the ADC port they were using. IMHO that was the worst hardware decision Apple ever made. Now they can basically use the same Graphics cards as the rest of the world. Thank God!

And if you want to get into the hardware pricing game forget it. Macs are a little more expensive than a similarly configured factory sold x86 box. That's my final word on that subject

I still see quite a number of new Mac users in the future.

[Faustus]

I hate to bust your bubble there TugBoat, but Mac hardware is really nothing impressive, and it costs twice as much on top of that. There's a number of hardware issues and quality hits compared to the more open-to-3rd-party Windows platform. A lot of graphics and video cards are only for Windows, and the Mac versions are usually stripped down a bit and slightly outdated, with far fewer choices.

You know I don't think so. Every Apple Product I've had was finely put together. Obvious care went into design decisions. My first iMac was nice and compact and worked perfect on my desk as a 2nd computer which is what it was meant for when I purchased it. My Powermac G5 ran the couple of games I cared about perfect and was very very fast, thats why I purchased it, it also was an extremely solid machine all around. I've worked around Dell desktops and the difference between the two reguardless of what architecture the guts were using was night and day.

Now I have a Macbook Pro, my 3rd Laptop to have ever owned. You know what? Its perfect. You could go buy an HP Laptop thats a little cheaper and it might be a little faster, or come with a tad more RAM by default (easy to fix for cheap) and yeah it might be one step up on drive space, but then the video might be a bit LOWER, it doesn't have a Web Cam built in, it doesn't have the awesome backlit keyboard, and most of all.... its heavier and thicker then the Macbook Pro is.

You really do get what you pay for. As far as graphics cards, Mac has keep up more then decently enough for a while now IMO.

[vitualis]

Hardware choice still remains a problem on a Mac though, IMHO, especially for peripherals. Probably not such much if you run Windows on an Intel Mac, but driver support is still relatively poor under Mac OS X.

Regards.

[pchan]

Not many would buy a Mac and spend $ on Xp. Unless there one needs to run unique Xp software. My last Mac was a Quadra. Believe me, getting Autocad to run on it was a real pain. They do have a Windoze emulator back then, but it crawled.

There is no compeling reason for Mac users queuing up for Xp.

[RLT69]

There's a number of hardware issues and quality hits compared to the more open-to-3rd-party Windows platform. A lot of graphics and video cards are only for Windows, and the Mac versions are usually stripped down a bit and slightly outdated, with far fewer choices.

Lordsmurf you have definitely become a love/hate relationship

1. How are there more hardware "hits" on MacTel than on Windows? What hardware in particular to which you refer?

They both use the same graphics manufactors - ATI and Nvidia.
They bot use the same processor, Intel.
They both use the same HD manufacturers - Seagate, WD, Maxtor.
They both use the same burner manufacturers - pioneer, sony.

Other than the Apple keyboard, mouse and monitor both Macs and Windows machines are using the same hardware. Ergo the quality control for 3rd party hardware components would be the same for both platforms.

2. I would agree that the choice of different models of graphics cards is limited for the Mac, meaning not all of the different Nvidia or ATI models are necessarily available for the Mac, right out of the box. However, many of the graphics cards out there, including the high end ones, can be flashed to work with the Mac. Check out the following site for more information:

http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/

FYI the dual booting feature is not necessarily meant for MAC users. It's meant for Windows users. One of the marketing strategies for the MacMini was to replace aging PC hardware, just buy a Mac Mini and plug in your existing keyboard, mouse and monitor. The problem with this strategy was the software component. Business/schools are not going to dump the software to just "buy a mac." However, if you now include the option to dualboot Windows, you now have decent bridge to "buy a mac."

Consider that MOST businesses are not jumping on the Vista bandwagon, whenever that ships, buying a MAC becomes more appealing since you can use your existing software. Your existing software is not guaranteed to work on Vista. Microsoft has a list of Vista approved software. There's alot of 3rd party software out there that may not run on Vista. Not too mention alot of peripherals that won't have drivers for Vista.

Vista will force alot of companies to replace their hardware - it's a 64 bit OS. So you have to buy new computers. You'll have to buy new peripherals, you might need to replace some of your 3rd party software - assuming you can. What begins to look more appealing? A Mac that will let run XP....maybe.

[mhar4]

I gotta say, I think Apple hardware and software make for a great product package.

I have a 12" PowerBook which I fling into my backpack and cart around the world on research trips and it does everything - writing, communication, image and video editing, presentations, a mobile library, and entertainment at the end of a day's work. You can argue all day about graphics ram and hard drive or whatever specs, but it's just a beautifully designed built product that inspires confidence and let's me work creatively.

[SERBIAN]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6484737.html?tag=cnetfd.sd

[stniuk]

IMO unless we really have to mac users will probably not use boot camp. It's windows switchers this is aimed at.
Boot camp takes the argument "But I can't run such and such windows only software on a mac" away. It also adds value to a mac. Why buy a Dell, hp or packard bell just to run windows when you can get a mac and run 2 or more os'es.
The windows user will be curious about os x and through using apps in the ilife package and being able to surf the internet safely will eventually move completely over to mac safe in the knowledge that they have windows there if needed. A sort of security blanket.
I think this is the strategy Apple is following, they knew windows would run on these machines before they even moved to intel and I'm sure they have worked out the pro's and con's.
I think the strategy will work, more macs will be sold and more people will eventually move to os x, it is risky but I think it will pay off.

[lordsmurf]

Try to purchase a really nice high-end Canopus or Matrox video card for Mac. Or even a mid-end video card from ATI or Hauppage. Not gonna happen. Same for the latest graphics cards from ATI or nVidia. When you use Mac, for these two types of items, you're either shit out of luck, or you can expect to get something "new" for Mac when the hardware is ported and already obsolete on the PC.

RLT69, I think I love/hate all tech. Then again, I don't really have any emotion to these things, they're are all just tools to me. I like to view these things for what they can or cannot do, I care nothing about the "picking sides" crap that most people do.

I want a Mac myself, but I know what it can and cannot do, I won't sit and pretend Apple is superior or even the same as a PC. It's different, and it's that difference that makes the system wanted by the under 5% of computer users that use them.

In the long run, Windows XP on Mac hardware will not affect things very much. A nice extra, but that's all it will be: an extra feature.

[TugBoat]

Hmmm,
I think the smurf is the one in the bubble.

Now you're harpin' on the video card issue. I thought I'd already answered that. Most consumers don't worry about video cards. The IntelMacs released so far do not support upgradable video cards! The only Macs that do, haven't been Intelized yet! That's coming later. For the Consumer IntelMacs, Apple relies on third party breakout boxes to serve that purpose. Many people believe the industry is moving away from Capture Cards to Capture Devices. You can find capture Devices for Macs easily.

But if you really have to have a Capture card, then get one of these;
http://www.aja.com/
No, they're not priced for consumers. But, they are nice. And if you've followed the recent PowerMacs lately, you know that they've come with the latest and greatest nVidia cards available.

As stated earlier, the major problem with Apple video cards in the past was caused by the stupid ADC port. So stupid that the entire PowerMac G4 line (except for the first two) have bastardized AGP ports just to accommodate the ADC port. STUPID. And yes, PowerMac G4 owners are paying for it. That will not be a problem for future PowerMacs. The ADC port is dead! Times are a changing and I really want to see what the new Intel PowerMacs are made of.

I will buy a new MacBook Pro when they are released, my old TiBook is really out of date, and it will have XP installed, just like my current TiBook has Win2000. I really would like to buy one of the new IntelMac Portables offered now, but, I'm convinced the present machine is really just an iBook in disguise. Why didn't they release an IntelMac iBook? 'cause they are going to use the same processor as the 'MacBook Pros' have now. They make more money selling 'Pros' verses iBooks. I have a very strong feeling that the new MacBook Pros will get the new Merom processor and the MacBooks (iBooks) will inherit the current Yonahs. Can't wait for all the whiner threads when that happens
I just hope it happens in the next 3-4 months.

Just like I hope the smurf realizes that a lot of his old Mac hates are disappearing. Apple is getting better. And I agree, it's about time.

[SERBIAN]

Try to purchase a really nice high-end Canopus or Matrox video card for Mac. Or even a mid-end video card from ATI or Hauppage.

Why?

We are using high-end cards not the consumer ones /sorry to say but Matrox and Canopus makes consumer and semi-pro gear, not the high-end/...If you wanna check high-end here is some:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/
http://www.aja.com/
http://www.auroravideosys.com/

It's different, and it's that difference that makes the system wanted by the under 5% of computer users that use them.

Quantity is usually opposite to quality...Like 95% of people eating in McDonalds and rest in Maxim's, Paris...

[FulciLives]

It's different, and it's that difference that makes the system wanted by the under 5% of computer users that use them.

Quantity is usually opposite to quality...Like 95% of people eating in McDonalds and rest in Maxim's, Paris...

You forget SERBIAN that probably the vast majoring of those 95% eating in McDonalds cannot afford to eat in Maxim's, Paris ...

In other words don't oversimplify things.

Also we all know that the most expensive is not always better ... and even if it is better that doesn't mean it justifies the extra cost.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SERBIAN]

You forget SERBIAN that probably the vast majoring of those 95% eating in McDonalds cannot afford to eat in Maxim's, Paris ...

In other words don't oversimplify things.

I was reffering to quality, not the price...I thought that there is understanding that there is no such a big difference in Mac - PC price tag these days...

Also we all know that the most expensive is not always better ... and even if it is better that doesn't mean it justifies the extra cost.

Agreed...Here is the example: http://voodoopc.com/showroom.aspx?ProductID=1090

[lordsmurf]

It's different, and it's that difference that makes the system wanted by the under 5% of computer users that use them.

Quantity is usually opposite to quality...Like 95% of people eating in McDonalds and rest in Maxim's, Paris...

I think it's really stupid to take a quote out of context. Read what I said one more time, in case your missed it the first time: "I want a Mac myself, but I know what it can and cannot do, I won't sit and pretend Apple is superior or even the same as a PC. It's different, and it's that difference that makes the system wanted by the under 5% of computer users that use them."

In other words, your analogy suggest that 5% of people are smarter or buying better tech or whatever. And I just got done saying that is not the case. It is not superiority or even sameness that makes a Mac worthwhile, but rather that it is different.

Quit with the out-of-context Fox News quoting style, it's obnoxious and unintelligent.

[SERBIAN]

hehehe..sure, why not...I'll quit...I just wanted to say that quantity does not equals quality...It was not my intention to offend anyone..Sorry if I misunderstood your post and you was annoyed with my reply...I can find at least 5 posts in this topic which are much more obnoxious and unintelligent, but I'll keep that to myself...I've seen enough narrow-minded "I bought it, it has to be the best" type comments from Windows users here to last me a lifetime.

...