Whats the easy, best and fastest way to do this?

[videopoo]

A guy on another forum runs a bungee jumping business. He needs a way to record each jump then network each jump down to a authoring station on the ground so people could buy a DVD of thier craziness.

Is there a way so everytime he presses record on his camera a new clip would be added to a HDD which could be networked down to the authoring station?

From there is would be a matter of dropping that clip (mov, avi...whatever) into his authoring project a hit burn.

ive never used a HDDs to record clips - always on tape. Anyone have some input on the best way or products to achieve this?

[TaoTeWingChun]

Man, you're asking for a lot, but let's give it a try...

Given the distances involved in bungee jumping, it likely makes more sense to do the burn at the point of jumping, so on top of the bridge vs the bottom of the fall. Doubt you'd be able to get a nice run of cable that distance to make networking practical, quite honestly. As for wireless, I wouldn't even consider it unless you are using sophisticated and $$$ equipment.

Not sure how the guy on another forum has his business setup, but if I were him I'd hook up a Hi-8 camcorder via firewire to a capable laptop, record the user's jumps to tape then transfer the footage to the laptop. As to burning to DVD, you'd need time to render the clip and burn to disc - not likely a long time to do, and can likely be done in the time it takes the user to get back to his/her starting point.

Just my 2 cents, anyways. Good luck!

TTWC

[Cornucopia]

For this kind of event, the only reason to "Author" would be to PERSONALIZE each event. Skip that, route the video from the camcorder to a DVD recorder (or bank of 'em). By the time the jumper has finished, removed the gear and returned to the jump start site, the disc could probably have been finalized.

Scott

[TaoTeWingChun]

Good point - If he uses a DVD recorder's Line In from the camera's mini-din tri-plug, he could grab it all in real-time, and then burn from the unit's hard drive right to DVD, no transferring/messing with tape.

The only problem with this idea is that regardless of which route he takes, these items are going to be exposed to the elements, so it might be better to have a $300 DVD recorder out there than a $1500 laptop.

Cheers!

TTWC

[Cornucopia]

Not line-in, use a recorder that has firewire. Better quality, better AV sync. Make sure audio in cam is set to 16bit, 48kHz, stereo, though or you'll have problems. You could even have say 4 recorders, and 1 Firewire distrib. amp. ("amplified Y-connector" for those who don't know what that is) and run 2 copies for each jumper--1 for you as archive (in case they want dupes) and 1 for immediate release to the jumper. Then, while they are finalizing, you can already be shooting the next jumper on the other 2 recorders!

Scott

[videopoo]

Thanks for the response guys.

The problem is that there is a promo clip which needs to be played before the customers jump.

I thought recording to a HDD then networking that drive down to the ground would be the best option. He would need that promo clip ready to go in an existing project. As each person jumps - load the next clip and burn away.

Is there a set top recorder that can have the "promo" on the disc then as the person jumps, record that and close the disc?

[Cornucopia]

Ok, then this: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_204147818_38303,00.html is probably what you want.

Scott

[edDV]

Thanks for the response guys.

The problem is that there is a promo clip which needs to be played before the customers jump.

I thought recording to a HDD then networking that drive down to the ground would be the best option. He would need that promo clip ready to go in an existing project. As each person jumps - load the next clip and burn away.

Is there a set top recorder that can have the "promo" on the disc then as the person jumps, record that and close the disc?

The way they do this at trade shows is pre-record the promo to a stack of DVDRs then assemble edit the live event and finalize. If this has to be enabled from the top (i.e no local operator) consider RF remotes.

Easier to use a walkie talkie to the guy on the ground.

[videopoo]

Thanks Guys

That Pioneer recorder was what I was thinking of. The key here would be speed - he shoot 50 - 300 jump a day - so Im still thinking the networking idea is the way to go on this.

[SingSing]

Go the distant with a few of this ? http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=267
I assume the place of jump is not next to an airport lounge or internet cafe.

[Nelson37]

I forsee many problems networking. The cable length max is just over 300 feet. If jumper snags cable, anything from a broken neck to expensive parts being yanked over the edge to just disconnecting the cable, if you're lucky. Wireless just not able to handle the data rate.

Time required to burn would make sense to have jumper return to the top as mentioned, additional jump purchases likely.

I would go the recorder route with the promo pre-burned, also using pre-printed blank disks and jewel case inserts.

What about power availability, extension cords, etc? Most such locations I have seen have no available power outlets. You may be better off preparing the video afterwards, perhaps make it a bonus for taking second jump at a latter date?

[TaoTeWingChun]

Thanks Nelson37 - I said some of that myself.

As to power requirements, the guy can always grab a smallish generator for his electrical appliances up there.

The issues I really see now are:

1 - Burning a video clip to a DVDR that already has a promo clip on it - how exactly does the VIDEO_TS folder look with this type of configuration?

2 - Networking won't work - unless his office is within 300' of the jump point. If you don't go wired, WiFi won't give you the results you might expect. Signal stregnth degrades in ALL directions quickly when you're outdoors vs being in an enclosed area. Plus the bandwidth just isn't there for real-time MPEG2 capture & encoding.

Cheers!

TTWC

[videopoo]

He says its 80-100 meters. He just needs a way to record a clip and have it end up down in the office. From there you could plug into an authoring app and burn.

[Cornucopia]

8 hours/day = 480 min.
/300jumps = 16 min. Long enough to burn at 4x, 8x, 16x. ...so...

Each LX1 has hard drive. Use 2 LX1's. 1 records live while other "authors/finalizes/hi-speed burns". Under the hood they're Linux boxes. Networkable, Scriptable, Remote controllable.

You have the pre-produced clip loaded to the HD on each one, roll record (incl. realtime hiquality MPEG2/AC3 encoding), save, use menu/authoring template--adding name, list prepro clip + jump as chapters.
Minute or two later, while recorder 1 script runs to compile VIDEO_TS and copy/burn highspeed to 1 or 2 (simultaneously) DVD recorders, your recorder 2 is starting to record the next jump (via the other leg of the Firewire DA/switch). Just remember to erase the old jump before starting the next one. 8)

Scott

[kschang]

You *MAY* want to consider going SVCD. The structure is much simpler, and the length you're thinking about won't even strain a SVCD.

Some may say go with MicroDVD (DVD file structure, but burned on CD media), but it's not universally supported.

[Cornucopia]

For bungee jumping, you know the motion is going to get fast, so you want a tripod, and even then you want something that'll encode fast motion well. SVCD and miniDVD don't have the bitrate to do it well (SVCD would legally max out at 2.6Mbps, miniDVD would also --for practical/tech reasons--max out at a similar rate), plus they aren't as universally acceptable as DVD (or even VCD).

Scott

[ZAPPER]

DV-Cam straight to PC via Firewire.
My Sony TRV-330 will output via firewire straight to WMM without even using a tape. (I would assume that any modern camera will too) Drop your promo clip into the timeline followed by the jump clip, save as whatever, author, burn.

Excecpt for the time factor (300 jumps in a 10 hour day= 2 minutes for turn around time) It could work. Not to mention to make it a better video, several angles should be used. Top down, bottom shooting up, side veiw, helmet cam (for the face shot) and a pan of the fall and a bounce or two. Thats Five seperate cams. A couple of solutions are a cam and computer for each angle and then dump the clips onto an editing/burning computer via a network. Or go with a cam and a HD recorder for each angle and dump those clips into an editing/burning computer.

I ain't pimping this product it is just one that I have seen the ad for, I am sure that there are others and likely better. http://www.mcetech.com/quickstreamdv/

The few DV HDD recorders that I have seen (In ads), seem to need unplugging from the cam and into the computer to transfer. (I doubt that a plug would hold up for 300 cycles) I would find or fabricate some kind of switch. If they are hot swappable and auto detecting this shouldn't be too hard to do. Buid a mixing/switch panel and switch HDD recorder #1 from record to transfer and then back when finished and down the line for each additional camera HDD setup.

Distance is the killer, I think. I am not sure how far firewire will work (300' maybe?) or I am confuseing it with CAT5e (the network)

As for a helmet cam I would guess that you would have to go with an analog and wireless transmiter to a receiver and convert it on the fly like through another DV cam.

It ain't nothing that money can't fix.

[kschang]

I know they want souvenirs to "take home". What if you give them access to their footage online for a discount and mail them the physical media later? Hmmm... But then the bandwidth may be a problem... Hmmm... Maybe not.

[lordsmurf]

You could always shoot directly onto those cameras that shoot to mini-DVD-R. That would be even easier, no wires, and only one piece of equipment to use.

[Cornucopia]

Most likely, at least 2 pieces of equipment: 2 cameras.

For the DVD-R in those cameras to be totally compatible, they've got to be shot in DVD-Video mode, and they have to be finalized. The drives in those seem to all run at 1x, so finalizing might take longer than they would have available between jumps (~2 min.?). Thus, the need for 2 cameras.

Plus, I haven't been impressed with the encoding quality of those cameras compared to a good industrial settop DVD-recorder. Think of it: this is sports footage! Macroblocks!...

Scott

[matemago]

ok guys, i'm the one who was asking about this, thanks a lot to all of you for your posts.

i'm gonna tell you what do i have in mind from reading all your posts:

1 computer on top of tower, connected to dv camcorder via ADSTech InstantDVD+MP3... this computer networked through a switch hub at the middle of tower to help with ethernet signal, down to another computer at our lobby.

the video operator on tower film the jump, saving it to harddisk. then by the network, i read the .mov or avi file to show to clients. if they like it, i burn it. the ADSTech is supposed to record in mpeg-2, so i think i'm gonna save render time here.

i'm planning to deliver to customers 1 cd with promo, wallpapers, photos, etc. burned at factory. and a dvd or maybe a svcd with your jump. so i'm gonna give you in a two-cd case your promo and jump video, also your tshirt and diploma.

but while we film your jump, we send that stream to tvs at the street. can i still be able to do this?

what do you guys think about this solution?

[kschang]

You don't need a PC in the middle. You just need a "signal booster".

How about a 2-stage solution: if they want it in a hurry they can take the AVI version now, get regular DVD in the mail. If they will wait they can get the DVD now.

The REAL solution: add some other activity in the area that they can do. By the time they're done, the stuff will be ready. (That's what "Bay Cruise" people do... They take the pictures when you get on the boat. By the time you come back, the pictures are done.

[matemago]

people buy their video because they see it at the moment, usually with their friends, and they still have the adrenalin of the jump. when we tried that, about deciding first for your video, only 30% wanted it. but after we started to film everyone and show your video, we went to an 80%. so we know you gotta have your video ready by the time you come back our lobby.

and about the middle computer, not a computer, just a switch, which is like a hub but a lot more efficient.

but what do you think about my idea? do you think is possible that way?

i took a little of every post for this solution, since everyone really help me out.

[SingSing]

I though 30% is already very good, compare to waht sold at theme park. If you feel you can sold another 30% more, then that is a profit in there. Technologies always adapt to where the money can be made.

[Nelson37]

Do you have some way to tie the cable to a support or something? 300 feet of cable blowing in the wind is going to snag something sooner or later. Also, the distance is a total number, PC to Switch to next PC, add it all together. Signal booster necessary for over 300 feet. Actually, you CAN go over the 300 foot number, the problem is packet collisions. With just two PC's, and a one-way file transfer, this should be minimized.

The speed issue will be a real factor in getting the disks burned. IMO, you will need something for the customer to do to absorb the time factor. A beer or glass of champagne might work, but there are major licensing issues here. Perhaps a package deal with a massage, victory cigar, free lunch, etc? You could suggest a relaxation period to comedown from the adrenalin rush, for the customer's own safety if driving. You only need a few minutes, perhaps show an entertaining highlight video in the lobby while burning their disk?

[olyteddy]

Actually, the wireless equipment would not have too be too sophisticated. A buddy and I were doing wireless video on the 430 MHz Ham Radio band years ago at concerts and parties. The transmitter was 2 Watts and about the size of a pack of cigarettes, the antenna a 1/4 wavelength stub atop a foil covered (for a groundplane, not to block alien mindreaders) pith helmet. The receiver was a VCR with a UHF antenna, tuned to Cable Channel 60 (IIRC). We got usable analog video with about a 1000 foot range with this rig. And if you wanted (needed?) to do it digitally, consider a Wireless G camera with a cantenna or other high gain antenna aimed at an access point at the top of the jump. The antenna would, by the grace of gravity, always be pointing ^^UP^^... You could also put a second camera on the jump off pointing down and record in split screen...

edit: I just read

He says its 80-100 meters. He just needs a way to record a clip and have it end up down in the office.

... please replace '^^UP^^' with 'DOWN'...

PS, I used to record Karaoke 'performances' on VHS. Maybe he could sell a tape POS and have them order the DVD...

[SingSing]

Wireless repeater is the good setup for this application, and there is an existing industry supplying equipment for the application.

[kschang]

Just a wireless repeater is fine. You don't have enough traffic on the network to justify a switch.

I would agree with a bank of recorders. The way I'm thinking... Two to three cameras with wireless link to base units, directly streaming, three PC's simultaneous capture from each cam. One central PC acts as controller, assembles footage, sends to burner. Depending on amount of footage, the writing step should be minimal, and should only take a few minutes.

Also, from what I read, your office is at the BOTTOM, not at the top, right? Why don't you make your office at the TOP? After all the idea is to delay them a bit. Maybe put the setup in the back of a camper / pickup or something.