Question about the JVC DR-DX5S (A.K.A. DR-DX5SUS) Aspect Ratio settings.

[Cyrax9]

Okay folks, I need your help. I currently own a Panasonic DMR-HS2 (40GB HDD) and a Panasonic DMR-E500HS (400GB HDD) DVD Recorder. For 4:3 videos these are great; the E500 has yet to exhibit the fatal flaws listed here with the exception of the Macro-blocking and that's only after recording for over six hours which was something I did as a test to see how many of the "fatal flaws" I could reproduce. All in all these machines work fine for what I've been doing, but they have three things that "bother" me and are making me look into the purchase of a new recorder to compliment the Panasonic models, but not replace them.

Okay here's my biggest issue: a Panasonic recorder is kind enough to "handle" 16:9 video from an SD Source, but it automatically letterboxes it to 4:3 with "black bars" effectively making a wonderful Widescreen film or video you've shot a 4:3 matte -- likewise if you burn a disc of a 16:9 TV show to watch on your larger set for timeshifting you have to deal with a 4:3 image on a 16:9 television!

With that said, I've been eyeballing the JVC DR-DX5S (NTSC US Model) MiniDV/HDD/DVD Recorder. Before I send $1300 dollars to B&H for a third DVD Recorder I'd like to know a couple of things about specific features. Since the DR-DX5S will have to record shows while I'm away at college, I'm curious to know if each statement is accurate:

1. According to the manual you CAN dub from the DV IN to a camcorder or from a camcorder to the DV IN unlike a Panasonic recorder which only dubs from a camcorder. The "six-way dubbing" feature should allow me to copy to/from:
- A. HDD to MiniDV
- B. HDD to DVD
- C. MiniDV to HDD
- D. MiniDV to DVD
- E. DVD to HDD
- F. DVD to MiniDV
as well, correct?

2. Will the JVC DR-DX5S also use *.VRO files only for a DVD-RAM disc? Does the HDD record a DV Stream, VOB files, or a proprietary format? Also, will discs recorded on my Panasonic (DVD-RAM discs) most likely play on the JVC DR-DX5S or will I need to dub them to another format? Is it easy to dub from the HDD to a MiniDV Tape?

3. I'm filming in 16:9 Widescreen now, the show(s) I record to watch timeshifted are going to also be 16:9 by Feburary 2007. Will the JVC DR-DX5S DVD recorder timer record a 16:9 INPUT from an S-VID DBS Source and not "matte" it to 4:3 when it's recording? Will it take a 16:9 INPUT from my camcorder and not "matte" it to 4:3? Basically can this recorder record SD 16:9 like my camcorder does, or will it do what my Panasonic recorders do and "convert" the image to 4:3?

Also, does anybody have experience with the JVC DR-DX5S on this forum and if so, can they please tell me what their experience with it has been? I know JVC makes great equipment but I want to know if this is worth the $1300 before I spend it. Thank you.

Finally, if the JVC DR-DX5S MiniDV/HDD/DVD Recorder will record in 16:9 please let me know. Thank you in advance for all your help.

EDIT#: (Edited to add information.)

See this thread https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279460&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=81 for screen caps of what I'm trying to avoid. Look for The Matrix caps about two quarters down the page. The first cap labeled The Original is what it should look like, the second and third cap labeled ES35V XP Mode and ES35V SP Mode are what the Panasonic recorders do if your source is 16:9 from a DV Tape or DBS Source. Will the JVC give me this "letterboxed letterbox" or will it keep the OAR as seen in The Original? That's what I'm trying to figure out; I hope this clears things up.

[Cyrax9]

(Bumped as this thread has no replies and has been around awhile)

Guys can anyone please help me with this? I'm really curious to know if this will record 16:9 as 16:9 or if it'll matte it as shown in the Panasonic caps.

Has anybody used a JVC DR-DX5S on here and if so, what are your opinions on it? Is it better than the Panasonic DMR-E500H quality-wise, and does it handle 16:9 without converting it to 4:3? I know better is subjective but I'm looking for some opinions on the record I have and the recorder I'm looking at buying (the DXD5S). I also want to know if it records 16:9 or if it letterboxes a letterboxed video.

Basically what I'm asking is if a 16:9 video will come out the way the video labeled "The Original" in the first thread did, or if it'll look like Panasonic's XP/SP Mode recordings where it's letterboxed and then letterboxed again. Is there a 16:9 recording option on the DXD5S? I checked the PDF Manual but it's unclear to me if it's 16:9 playback-only or if it's 16:9 Recording and Playback when using 16:9 AUTO or 16:9 FIX. Can someone please help me?


LordSmurf, FulciLives, edDV, gShelly16 or anyone else who might have some info, if you could share it'd be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

~Cyrax9~

P.S. I apologize for bumping, but it's been more than a few days since I posted this and I did try to clear up the original topic first. I hope I haven't offened any mods by doing this. (I'm not fond of "bumping" my threads unless absolutely nessecary and I did wait awhile before I bumped.)

[jagabo]

Tell the device you are recording from to output a 16:9 picture. That is, tell it you have a 16:9 TV. It should then output a 16:9 picture anamorphically.

[Cyrax9]

Tell the device you are recording from to output a 16:9 picture. That is, tell it you have a 16:9 TV. It should then output a 16:9 picture anamorphically.

I know I can do this with my PDX10 camcorder, but is it possible with a DiSH Network receiver using an S-VID cable? Likwise if I put the video into Adobe Premiere Pro to edit it, will it show no black bars when I use the16:9 48kHz option like video off the PDX10 shot in 16:9 does?

[jagabo]

I don't know about the Dish reciever in particular but the when you set a device to output 16:9 over s-video it sends an anamorphically encoded image (16:9 squeezed into a 4:3 frame -- the same way DVD uses 720x480 for both 4:3 and 16:9 material) over the s-video cable rather than squishing the picture vertically and adding black bars to the top and bottom.

[FulciLives]

My understanding is that most cable TV and satellite TV boxes will not output 16x9 WS over composite or S-Video.

I know my cable TV box is like this *sigh*

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jagabo]

Of course, it has to be an HD receiver. And the signal you get over the s-video cable won't truely be HD. It will be anamorphic SD.

[FulciLives]

Of course, it has to be an HD receiver. And the signal you get over the s-video cable won't truely be HD. It will be anamorphic SD.

My cable box does HDTV but only over component and when you watch a HDTV channel via S-Video or composite the box will automatically put it in a 4:3 WS mode with no option to do 16x9 WS instead.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

The Motorola 6xxx HD boxes do letterbox 16:9 over composite and S-Video.

[FulciLives]

The Motorola 6xxx HD boxes do letterbox 16:9 over composite and S-Video.

I have a Motorola DCT 6412 III and it does not produce 16x9 WS over S-Video. Instead you get your regular run-of-the-mill 4:3 WS not 16x9 WS.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

The Motorola 6xxx HD boxes do letterbox 16:9 over composite and S-Video.

I have a Motorola DCT 6412 III and it does not produce 16x9 WS over S-Video. Instead you get your regular run-of-the-mill 4:3 WS not 16x9 WS.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Yes. different way to say same thing. 4:3 frame containing letterbox 16:9.

[Cyrax9]

Okay, now I'm confused; Jagabo says I need an HD reciever to view true 16:9 content if I'm understanding him correctly. Well the Sony DSR-PDX10 is an SD Camcorder that records "True 16:9" as it claims, and an import into Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 at the college using 16:9 48kHz settings gives me a Widescreen image with no black bars. Am I missing an important piece of information here?

What I'm asking is can I do standard definition Widescreen with this recorder and not just "Letterboxed" 16:9 with hard-boarded black bars? I know it'll only be an SD recording; I'll worry about upscaling later -- I don't want to get involved in HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray just yet. (This format war is making me look into D-VHS recorders.) I want to be able to record widescreen TV shows in a widescreen format for viewing at a later date. I want to be able to record to/from my camcorder without an AR alterations when shooting in widescreen. I'm just trying to figure out if this is the right recorder for me; I'm looking to record widescreen TV shows for time-shifted viewing and to record stuff that I've shot on a PDX10. I want to know if this is a good recorder to use for that, right now I own a Panasonic DMR-E500HS, and that only records in full screen. I'm looking for a recorder that handles Widescreen and has some pro features. For example, I like the fact that this unit includes MiniDV playback and the 250GB HDD.

Another question would be, which of the following would be the "best" -- yes I know it's subjective, I'm looking for an opinion -- piece of equipment for me to buy given what I've told you:

1. The JVC DR-DX5S (This unit)
2. A D-VHS Recorder (Suggestions?)
3. Another piece of equipment entirely (What is it?)

I'll worry about upconversion to HD later on, right now my concern is preserving the aspect ratio of shows I'm recording from the TV and films I've shot on the PDX10. I looked at standalone DV Recorders, but only Sony makes units with DVCAM recording and they're $3000 a piece which is a bit much.

Likewise, I need to be able to set timer recording on whatever format I chose as I will be time-shifting shows and won't be around when the recorder is recording. I won't need this for films from my PDX10, but I'll need it for TV shows.

Any help is appreciated; I know that I'm asking about SD Widescreen, but I'm really just asking if this unit will record Widescreen instead of fullscreen.

Also, I have a TV with Component Video inputs; does this mean it will accept HD signals, or is there another use for said analog "HD" inputs? Thank you for your assistance.

[FulciLives]

Okay, now I'm confused; Jagabo says I need an HD reciever to view true 16:9 content if I'm understanding him correctly. Well the Sony DSR-PDX10 is an SD Camcorder that records "True 16:9" as it claims, and an import into Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 at the college using 16:9 48kHz settings gives me a Widescreen image with no black bars. Am I missing an important piece of information here?

Your camcorder does 16x9 WS but is SDTV ... not HDTV. Remember you can have 16x9 WS in both SDTV and HDTV. So 16x9 WS does not automatically mean it is also HDTV. Does that make more sense now?

What I'm asking is can I do standard definition Widescreen with this recorder and not just "Letterboxed" 16:9 with hard-boarded black bars? I know it'll only be an SD recording; I'll worry about upscaling later -- I don't want to get involved in HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray just yet. (This format war is making me look into D-VHS recorders.) I want to be able to record widescreen TV shows in a widescreen format for viewing at a later date. I want to be able to record to/from my camcorder without an AR alterations when shooting in widescreen. I'm just trying to figure out if this is the right recorder for me; I'm looking to record widescreen TV shows for time-shifted viewing and to record stuff that I've shot on a PDX10. I want to know if this is a good recorder to use for that, right now I own a Panasonic DMR-E500HS, and that only records in full screen. I'm looking for a recorder that handles Widescreen and has some pro features. For example, I like the fact that this unit includes MiniDV playback and the 250GB HDD.

The problem with recording 16x9 WS TV shows is that only HDTV channels right now do 16x9 WS and pretty much all of the cable boxes (not sure about satellite but I think it's the same) will only output 16x9 WS when the box is set to output a HDTV resolution ... which of course cannot be recorded by a standard set top DVD recorder. When you set the box to output standard 480i then pretty much all the boxes (if there are any exceptions I do not know of them) will output the 16x9 WS as 4:3 WS or Letterboxed 4:3 or whatever you want to call it.

I'm not sure how set top DVD recorders handle a DV input when the footage is 16x9 WS ... my guess is that it will record 16x9 WS but that the DVD will have a 4:3 flag instead of a 16x9 WS flag. Same thing would happen if you used the analog out from the camcorder to the set top DVD recorder. Of course I would imagine that some model/makes of set top recorders would handle this correctly (i.e., flag it as 16x9 WS) but I don't have a 16x9 WS camcorder so ... someone else will have to chime in on this.

But the short answer is it should record 16x9 WS but the disc may be incorrectly flagged as 4:3 instead of 16x9 WS. Should that be the case it can be "fixed" by simply ripping to a computer and re-authoring and at the re-author stage you don't have to re-encode anything ... just change the aspect ratio flag.

Another question would be, which of the following would be the "best" -- yes I know it's subjective, I'm looking for an opinion -- piece of equipment for me to buy given what I've told you:

1. The JVC DR-DX5S (This unit)
2. A D-VHS Recorder (Suggestions?)
3. Another piece of equipment entirely (What is it?)

I'll worry about upconversion to HD later on, right now my concern is preserving the aspect ratio of shows I'm recording from the TV and films I've shot on the PDX10. I looked at standalone DV Recorders, but only Sony makes units with DVCAM recording and they're $3000 a piece which is a bit much.

Likewise, I need to be able to set timer recording on whatever format I chose as I will be time-shifting shows and won't be around when the recorder is recording. I won't need this for films from my PDX10, but I'll need it for TV shows.

Any help is appreciated; I know that I'm asking about SD Widescreen, but I'm really just asking if this unit will record Widescreen instead of fullscreen.

Also, I have a TV with Component Video inputs; does this mean it will accept HD signals, or is there another use for said analog "HD" inputs? Thank you for your assistance.

I've often thought that using a D-VHS VCR (I know Mitsubishi makes a "cheap" yet good one) might really be the best way to record HDTV right now ... but with the copy protection on HDTV and broadcast flag I'm not sure if D-VHS will work for such recordings or not? In short it sounds like a good solution but I've never looked into it that deeply.

If your TV is HDTV and has component inputs then those inputs will accept HDTV but there are televisions with component inputs that are not HDTV and therefore cannot deal with a HDTV signal over component inputs.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

Okay, now I'm confused; Jagabo says I need an HD reciever to view true 16:9 content if I'm understanding him correctly. Well the Sony DSR-PDX10 is an SD Camcorder that records "True 16:9" as it claims, and an import into Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 at the college using 16:9 48kHz settings gives me a Widescreen image with no black bars. Am I missing an important piece of information here?

What I'm asking is can I do standard definition Widescreen with this recorder and not just "Letterboxed" 16:9 with hard-boarded black bars? I know it'll only be an SD recording; I'll worry about upscaling later -- I don't want to get involved in HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray just yet. (This format war is making me look into D-VHS recorders.) I want to be able to record widescreen TV shows in a widescreen format for viewing at a later date. I want to be able to record to/from my camcorder without an AR alterations when shooting in widescreen. I'm just trying to figure out if this is the right recorder for me; I'm looking to record widescreen TV shows for time-shifted viewing and to record stuff that I've shot on a PDX10. I want to know if this is a good recorder to use for that, right now I own a Panasonic DMR-E500HS, and that only records in full screen. I'm looking for a recorder that handles Widescreen and has some pro features. For example, I like the fact that this unit includes MiniDV playback and the 250GB HDD.
...

What you are describing is standard widescreen DV format production. The PDX10 has native 16:9 recording and when edited in Adobe Premiere you will have a 16:9 DV master (record back to tape) and you can encode a 16:9 DVD MPeg2 file of your program that can be authored into a 16:9 720x480 interlace DVD. Best to author in the computer if possible.

Every DVD player will play this out as widescreen or letterbox depending on the output selection on the DVD player (usually the choice is 16:9, letterbox or pan/scan).

If for some reason you want to create the DVD on a standalone DVD recorder, it would have to support widescreen DV as an input over IEEE-1394 and also be able to encode a 16:9 720x480 interlace DVD. Why not just do it in the computer?

Every HDTV set out there has internal upscaling. They will accept widescreen DVD playback and internally upscale to the native resolution of the TV. There are also upscaling DVD players that would play the 16:9 720x480 interlace DVD out at 1080i or 720p.

[jagabo]

If for some reason you want to create the DVD on a standalone DVD recorder, it would have to support widescreen DV as an input over IEEE-1394 and also be able to encode a 16:9 720x480 interlace DVD.

You can easily just fake this if the DVD Recorder doesn't support 16:9 from the firewire port. Just record as if it's 4:3. Then set your HDTV to stretch 4:3 to 16:9. Most people I know have their HDTVs set up that way anyway.

[edDV]

If for some reason you want to create the DVD on a standalone DVD recorder, it would have to support widescreen DV as an input over IEEE-1394 and also be able to encode a 16:9 720x480 interlace DVD.

You can easily just fake this if the DVD Recorder doesn't support 16:9 from the firewire port. Just record as if it's 4:3. Then set your HDTV to stretch 4:3 to 16:9. Most people I know have their HDTVs set up that way anyway.

Or you could edit the ifo file on the DVD to add the 16:9 flag.

DV widescreen @720x480 as it looks on a 4:3 screen.


DV widescreen @720x480 as displayed 16:9 (H stretched)

[jagabo]

Cyrax9, In case you aren't aware of this, DVD and DV use a 720x480 frame (720x576 in PAL systems) for both 4:3 and 16:9 video. The only difference is a flag in the header that tells the player how the video is supposed to be displayed, 4:3 or 16:9.

[Cyrax9]

edDV, thank you again for bailing me out of a confusing situtation. The TV is supposedly an SDTV but those component inputs have often caused me to wonder if it was mismarked. There were rumors that it was "HD-Ready" but the manual says otherwise. Similarly, said TV's manual claims it is an NTSC TV, but PAL VideoCDs (Legitimate pressing mind you) play perfectly on it leading me to believe that the set may be capable of more than it actually claims.

I've mulled over D-VHS for awhile as a way to hold HD content until I readily have access to an HDTV -- presumably sometime this fall, but it sounds like the protection schemes make recording a headache not worth the investment. Granted I'd buy a D-VHS player at this point if only to show a complete lack of confidence in both Blu-Ray and HD DVD as future formats; at least the D-VHS lockouts make some remote ammount of sense and there's no Region code on a D-VHS tape. Sure there aren't a lot of D-Theater releases but then I'm looking for archival as well as films, and I can't exactly afford HDV equipment.

I thought the PDX10 recorded 16:9 SDTV, but I've also heard this is impossible which is why I was confused, thank you for clearing things up for me. Basically my Mac Laptop needs a new Superdrive, and my PC lacks an IEEE1394 port to connect the camera. I'll be buying a new computer next year, but I use a set-top recorder as a stop-gap and usually take a DVD-R and copy it to my PC for any further editing if required.

@jagabo, it seems like what you're saying is all I need to do is change the flag from 4:3 to 16:9 if the recorder does not do this already, correct? This seems pretty simple if that's the only issue I'm dealing with. The panasonic units only record 4:3, this unit (the JVC) said it has some 16:9 modes so I might consider it.

@edDV again: Let me know if this makes sense at all.

For videos shot on the PDX10 with the intent of authoring to DVD: Copy from Camcorder to JVC DR-DX5S HDD. Copy from HDD to DVD; rip DVD to HDD and re-author as nessecary until I have a computer capable of handling video again. (See above for issues with old PC and current laptop.)

For TV shows that are time-shifted -- assume there's something really good that I want to save until an offical DVD is released/since no official DVD release is planned: Record from SDTV DBS reciever to JVC DR-DX5S HDD. Copy video to DV Tape deck using DV SP. Capture video onto my Mac (this is doable; DVD Authoring is not however,) and subsequently crop letterbox boarders; change AR to fit SDTV 16:9 in effect "creating" 16:9 SDTV WS from a potentially Letterboxed source, print to tape (DVCAM Mode on PDX10,) and hope the company actually releases a DVD of the show so that I can go buy it.

It seems like I just need a recorder capable of some form of WS recording right now; the Panasonic units claim to record everything as fullscreen, but the JVC unit has two 16:9 modes, the one I think I'd need to use would be "16:9 AUTO" which would be a step up from the Panasonic units. In any case, I appreciate the help from everyone who has contributed to the thread.

@jagabo, I'm aware of the 720x480 NTSC resolution.

@edDV awhile back I asked you if converting old VHS tapes to a DV Stream Tape format would be best done by using the same 704x480 + 8 pad pixels that DVD uses or if no "padding" was required. Did you ever have the chance to look into that? I'm still curious -- I'd obviously make a few changes on some planned restorations if this were the case. I know the Panasonic units record 704x480; I believe the JVC units record 720x480 and add the pad pixels. Basically I'm looking for something to serve as a stop-gap until I get a new PC. If all goes well a machine I've had in the shop for about a year now (don't ask...) should be ready on Tuesday and if it is, I'll have access to some IEEE1394 ports on a machine with a DVD Burner... unfortunately it's a Sony burner and as realiable as this model was, I wouldn't touch a Sony burner today.

Thanks again for your help everyone. I'm going to look into this recorder further, as well as the possibility of converting 4:3 WS to 16:9 WS if possible for storage on MiniDV Tape. I admittedly like to archive to tape in most caes for reliability and quality. If I ever decide to store SD media on an HD format I think a tape would serve as a better source than a DVD with the 4:1:1 color system rather than DVDs 4:2:0 system. (I'm using NTSC so DV is 4:1:1 here, not 4:2:0.) Thanks again everyone.

[edDV]

Is there some reason why you don't want to author and burn your widescreen DVD on the computer? Once burned, it will play widescreen on any DVD player or DVD recorder. You are adding complication when you try to use a DVD Recorder for this purpose.

On the display side, what is the make and model of the TV? Most new standard TV sets, even the cheap $89 Advent I bought at K-Mart, have interlace YPbPr analog component inputs intended for a standard DVD player, a cable box or a DTV tuner.

If you shoot your PDX10 DV video in widescreen, edit it widescreen in Premiere and encode it interlace 720x480 16:9 and author it widescreen, it will play full widescreen on a widescreen TV and letterboxed on a 4:3 TV.

Standard DVD players have setup menus to match the TV. The DVD player choices are usually letterbox (for 4:3 TV), 16:9 for a widescreen TV and Pan/Scan for a 4:3 centered full height picture with left and right sides cropped. Deluxe SD 4:3 TV sets may also have a 16:9 mode that compresses the 480 vertical scan lines into a 16:9 area of the 4:3 screen. The DVD player sees that mode as a 16:9 widescreen TV.

Everything above relates to standard definition interlaced DV and DVD. You can test these modes with even a cheap DVD player and TV.

Beyond that you can get into progressive and high definition production modes.

[gshelley61]

JVC DVD recorders support 16:9 recording through their IEEE 1394 firewire DV input. They will automatically pick up the 16:9 flag from your digital camcorder and produce a DVD with the 16:9 flag. That's probably what you wanted to know.

I have not run into a JVC DVD recorder that can stream a DV signal out of it's firewire port. Only the Pioneer DVR-210, 310, 320 and 520 units can do this (when playing back a non-copy protected DVD or a recording on the hard drive).

[Cyrax9]

Is there some reason why you don't want to author and burn your widescreen DVD on the computer? Once burned, it will play widescreen on any DVD player or DVD recorder. You are adding complication when you try to use a DVD Recorder for this purpose.

My PC is an old Alienware machine from 2001 that has already undergone several "upgrades" (repairs actually; "upgrades" out of lack of archaic parts,) and lacks a FireWire input. Yes, I know this seems odd, but it's only the first major problem. I've also been having problems with my HDD lately, the machine only has 512MB DDR Ram, and my analog capture card is shot. I want to avoid the headache of a new machine until next summer if possible so that I can buy a computer for a transfer to a four-year university; I also need a DVD Recorder to catch certain shows through my DBS Satellite at my primary residence when I transfer, since I'll probably order fewer channels in the off-campus apartment/townhome to save myself some money; I usually wind up watching shows that I record in this manner over the summer anyway so I'm saving myself some extra money.

As you may have guessed, Adobe Premiere Pro isn't on my machine at home; it's on the PCs in the lab at the school -- I sign in during open lab hours to edit some videos, but for quick tape dubs and DVD Authoring where menus and design are irrelivent, a Set-top unit makes things much easier. For example I may have a finished sample of some footage on MiniDV tape, but rather than pay for another MiniDV tape, dub to tape, and send it to a professor to decide what footage is the most useful, I find it easier to just connect the Camcorder to a DVD Recorder and hit record. Admittedly, the Professors do this as well to avoid spending extra money needlessly; the final cut is always mastered to DV AVI and then printed to DV Tape. (Prior 2005 S-VHS tape was used.) I also find it easier to have a general "rough" work print created with a DVD Recorder to decide where I want to place certain scenes. I'll do the fancy final cut on a computer. When I decided to make DVDs of my TV II final project I found it easiest to output to a DVD Recorder.

On the display side, what is the make and model of the TV? Most new standard TV sets, even the cheap $89 Advent I bought at K-Mart, have interlace YPbPr analog component inputs intended for a standard DVD player, a cable box or a DTV tuner.

Ahh... it's a Sony KV-27FS13. It was made in 2001 and I purchased mine in 2002.

If you shoot your PDX10 DV video in widescreen, edit it widescreen in Premiere and encode it interlace 720x480 16:9 and author it widescreen, it will play full widescreen on a widescreen TV and letterboxed on a 4:3 TV.

Thank you again for your help edDV; you seem to continuously bail me out of a rough situation. I'll keep this in mind when I'm using the PCs in the school again; it'll make my life easy this fall. I intend to shoot only 16:9 in TV III and since TV IV is a short film that'll be 16:9 as well.

Standard DVD players have setup menus to match the TV. The DVD player choices are usually letterbox (for 4:3 TV), 16:9 for a widescreen TV and Pan/Scan for a 4:3 centered full height picture with left and right sides cropped. Deluxe SD 4:3 TV sets may also have a 16:9 mode that compresses the 480 vertical scan lines into a 16:9 area of the 4:3 screen. The DVD player sees that mode as a 16:9 widescreen TV.

Interesting... the Panasonic Recorders I have offer me the option for 4:3 Letterbox and 4:3 Pan & Scan; they do not offer a 16:9 option. My TV does allow for the "16:9 mode compression" feature you mentioned; I've used it on occasion -- it creates a "Cinemascope" style 16:9 AR identical to the 16:9 letterboxing on the Star Trek films on DVD.

Everything above relates to standard definition interlaced DV and DVD. You can test these modes with even a cheap DVD player and TV.

I've run my Panasonic DMR-HS2 on both my Sony TV and a cheap 19" Toshiba -- there's a definite PQ difference in the two sets, and the Toshiba overscans more of the video. I've also played my videos on another Sony TV with a Sony DVD Player; the 16:9 AR seems to be more of an issue when I author through a DVD Recorder for a quick test of how a final video might look. The school uses Sony & JVC monitors, and the Sony I have is almost identical to the JVC in the studio so the displays are comperable. (The Sony seems to be calibrated a bit better than the school's JVC though.)

Beyond that you can get into progressive and high definition production modes.

I've been thinking about eventually moving to an HD production system, but right now there are too many standards, and the equipment is out of my price range for a total conversion. I looked at HDV, Digital Betacam, and D-VHS but I'm not sure which would be the "best" (subjectively speaking) format to use with quality, price, and format longevity all as major factors. The last thing I want to do is buy a D-VHS Recorder just in time for the format to disappear entirely, or buy a Digital Betacam recorder only to have a better format surface a day later. If enough companies back a Professional level HDV system I'd look into that since it seems to be the cheapest but I've heard varying reports related to quality.

JVC DVD recorders support 16:9 recording through their IEEE 1394 firewire DV input. They will automatically pick up the 16:9 flag from your digital camcorder and produce a DVD with the 16:9 flag. That's probably what you wanted to know.

Thank you gshelley61; this is exactly what I wanted to know. I guess I ought to direct my JVC-related questions directly to you in the future; you also helped me out a lot with the HR-S9911U S-VHS VCR. (As did edDV of course.) This is exactly what I was trying to figure out, unfortunately JVC seems to have gone to the "Panasonic school for writing user's manuals" where they teach you the most backwards method of how to get a feature to work. I think my eyes started to glaze over when I was looking at the Panasonic DMR-E500 manual and the PDF manual for the JVC DR-DX5S is only a little bit better in terms of clarity. I try to avoid user's manuals during set up since it's a lot easier to find a clear answer from a videohelp.com search in the forums as you've just proven to me once again. (Don't worry, it's not like we needed much more proof. I think there should be a list of poorly written manuals to go with the "fatal flaws" list for DVD Recorders.)

I have not run into a JVC DVD recorder that can stream a DV signal out of it's firewire port. Only the Pioneer DVR-210, 310, 320 and 520 units can do this (when playing back a non-copy protected DVD or a recording on the hard drive).

Hmmm... this is apparently a first then; The JVC Manual, as well as the B&H Website (Amazon.com might have mentioned this feature) not that the DV Input can also be used on an output on this particular model. I can't see why they'd need it considering there's a built-in MiniDV Deck, but if it's true this seems like it's just another feature that I'd want to test out on this recorder. In any case I'll probably look into ordering this model in July thanks to your help; I want to compare it to the Panasonic Recorders I have as well. The DMR-E500HS seems to be a real heavyweight for the "do everything possible" category, but the JVC DR-DX5SUS seems to be better for strictly video-related functions which is what I'd be using it for; having two recorders compliment each other would make my life a lot easier most of the time.


Finally, there used to be a MS Excel spreadsheet with a list of DVD Recorders that could be downloaded from Videohelp.com -- it listed features and information about each recorder. I couldn't find the list when I searched for it, is it still around, and has it been updated since way back in 2003 when I originally downloaded it? Thanks again for your help everyone.

[edDV]

When you go to school, learn to edit down to the essentials.

Is there some reason why you don't want to author and burn your widescreen DVD on the computer? Once burned, it will play widescreen on any DVD player or DVD recorder. You are adding complication when you try to use a DVD Recorder for this purpose.

My PC is an old Alienware machine from 2001 that has already undergone several "upgrades" (repairs actually; "upgrades" out of lack of archaic parts,) and lacks a FireWire input. Yes, I know this seems odd, but it's only the first major problem. I've also been having problems with my HDD lately, the machine only has 512MB DDR Ram, and my analog capture card is shot. I want to avoid the headache of a new machine until next summer if possible so that I can buy a computer for a transfer to a four-year university; I also need a DVD Recorder to catch certain shows through my DBS Satellite at my primary residence when I transfer, since I'll probably order fewer channels in the off-campus apartment/townhome to save myself some money; I usually wind up watching shows that I record in this manner over the summer anyway so I'm saving myself some extra money.

That Alienware must have serious gamer damage after 5 years of battle.

As you may have guessed, Adobe Premiere Pro isn't on my machine at home; it's on the PCs in the lab at the school -- I sign in during open lab hours to edit some videos, but for quick tape dubs and DVD Authoring where menus and design are irrelivent, a Set-top unit makes things much easier. For example I may have a finished sample of some footage on MiniDV tape, but rather than pay for another MiniDV tape, dub to tape, and send it to a professor to decide what footage is the most useful, I find it easier to just connect the Camcorder to a DVD Recorder and hit record. Admittedly, the Professors do this as well to avoid spending extra money needlessly; the final cut is always mastered to DV AVI and then printed to DV Tape. (Prior 2005 S-VHS tape was used.) I also find it easier to have a general "rough" work print created with a DVD Recorder to decide where I want to place certain scenes. I'll do the fancy final cut on a computer. When I decided to make DVDs of my TV II final project I found it easiest to output to a DVD Recorder.

I don't understand the cost structure, but you do have the needed tools there.

On the display side, what is the make and model of the TV? Most new standard TV sets, even the cheap $89 Advent I bought at K-Mart, have interlace YPbPr analog component inputs intended for a standard DVD player, a cable box or a DTV tuner.

Ahh... it's a Sony KV-27FS13. It was made in 2001 and I purchased mine in 2002.

OK. It will handle 4:3 letterbox, similar to laserdisc.

If you shoot your PDX10 DV video in widescreen, edit it widescreen in Premiere and encode it interlace 720x480 16:9 and author it widescreen, it will play full widescreen on a widescreen TV and letterboxed on a 4:3 TV.

Thank you again for your help edDV; you seem to continuously bail me out of a rough situation. I'll keep this in mind when I'm using the PCs in the school again; it'll make my life easy this fall. I intend to shoot only 16:9 in TV III and since TV IV is a short film that'll be 16:9 as well.

If you do it right and you set the player to letterbox, it will look like a 16:9 or 2.35 laserdisc on your TV.

more later...

[edDV]

Standard DVD players have setup menus to match the TV. The DVD player choices are usually letterbox (for 4:3 TV), 16:9 for a widescreen TV and Pan/Scan for a 4:3 centered full height picture with left and right sides cropped. Deluxe SD 4:3 TV sets may also have a 16:9 mode that compresses the 480 vertical scan lines into a 16:9 area of the 4:3 screen. The DVD player sees that mode as a 16:9 widescreen TV.

Interesting... the Panasonic Recorders I have offer me the option for 4:3 Letterbox and 4:3 Pan & Scan; they do not offer a 16:9 option. My TV does allow for the "16:9 mode compression" feature you mentioned; I've used it on occasion -- it creates a "Cinemascope" style 16:9 AR identical to the 16:9 letterboxing on the Star Trek films on DVD.

I doubt a 2001 TV had that mode.

Everything above relates to standard definition interlaced DV and DVD. You can test these modes with even a cheap DVD player and TV.

I've run my Panasonic DMR-HS2 on both my Sony TV and a cheap 19" Toshiba -- there's a definite PQ difference in the two sets, and the Toshiba overscans more of the video. I've also played my videos on another Sony TV with a Sony DVD Player; the 16:9 AR seems to be more of an issue when I author through a DVD Recorder for a quick test of how a final video might look. The school uses Sony & JVC monitors, and the Sony I have is almost identical to the JVC in the studio so the displays are comperable. (The Sony seems to be calibrated a bit better than the school's JVC though.)

Test more. If your goal is to be employed, you need to get this.

Beyond that you can get into progressive and high definition production modes.

I've been thinking about eventually moving to an HD production system, but right now there are too many standards, and the equipment is out of my price range for a total conversion. I looked at HDV, Digital Betacam, and D-VHS but I'm not sure which would be the "best" (subjectively speaking) format to use with quality, price, and format longevity all as major factors. The last thing I want to do is buy a D-VHS Recorder just in time for the format to disappear entirely, or buy a Digital Betacam recorder only to have a better format surface a day later. If enough companies back a Professional level HDV system I'd look into that since it seems to be the cheapest but I've heard varying reports related to quality.

Keep learning.