copying an SD card

[lumis]

a friend of mine recently purchased an SD card for use with a fishing system.. the card was purchased from a 3rd party manufacturer.. when he receieved the card it came with dire warnings that if you put the card in to a PC reader, adaptor, etc the card would be ruined forver and all the data would be gone, and that someone would come to your house and shoot you (i made that last part up).. but it was pretty clear, if you try to copy the card, all your data will be gone.. it is only for use inside the fishing system device..

the card cost $150.. you can buy an empty card of the same capacity for $25.. he would like to make 2 copies.. one for use in his other fishing system device and one as a backup..

now my question is are all of these dire warnings true? if the card is "locked" (via switch) is it safe from data manipulation? are they just trying to scare people from copying the data? is what they're saying even possible?

thanks

[jagabo]

I suspect the card will be OK if it's locked. But that won't do you any good anyway. There's a reason they're called "Secure Digital".

[lumis]

"secure digital" just means "not for newbs"

i'm going to try a program called recovery manager from vaiosoft.. seems like it will do 1:1 copies.. i'll let you guys know it goes when i give it a shot

[redwudz]

That sounds similar to what they sell with some GPS receivers. Nothing unusual about the SD cards unless they have some sort of data encryption. But even with that you can back it up. The dire threats with the GPS cards are 'If you screw it up, we won't replace it.' They are probably talking to clueless people that would use the card as a bottle opener and then complain it's broke. (Actually with those SD cards, the GPS unit can write to them if the write protect switch is off. That's probably what they are really warning about.)

It's just data. Make sure the write protect switch is on and I don't know how you could damage it. I'm sure the company doesn't want you to copy it and resell it. But you should be able to back it up for your own purposes.

[lumis]

redwudz,

actually the fishing system has a GPS in it too.. when i was playing with it earlier today it told me where i was :P

i could have understood if they had said "if you use this device with a PC, all warranties are void", but they were saying stuff like "if you connect it to a PC, the card will be damaged and all data lost", etc etc..

i didnt think it was really possible for them to do what they're claiming.. i think it's more of a scare tactic..

and my friend isnt doing this for illegal purposes, he just has 2 fishing devices and doesnt want to have to fork out another $150 for a card he could just copy for his own private use.. and of course have one as a backup just incase someone steals his devices or cards, or incase they get lost or damaged..

i'll let you guys know how it goes.

[lumis]

Well,

I tried copying the SD card. I was able to view the contents of the card and duplicate the card, but it still wouldnt work in the fishing device. It's like it didn't even recognize the card. I used vaiosoft's recovery manager pro. I tried backing up the card & restoring, I tried duplicating it. Nothing worked.

I guess they're called "secure digital" for a reason.

[Dubber]

They use some sort of copy protection, maybe some errors in the file system that 'get corrected' during copying. I got a friend who's a pharmacist and using one of those SD cards in his Palm that came with pharmaceutical software.
He also tried to copy the card for back up purposes to no avail.

[jagabo]

I guess they're called "secure digital" for a reason.

LOL!

They use some sort of copy protection, maybe some errors in the file system that 'get corrected' during copying. I got a friend who's a pharmacist and using one of those SD cards in his Palm that came with pharmaceutical software.
He also tried to copy the card for back up purposes to no avail.

They have hardware encryption built in. Without a key you can't decrypt the contents.

[Doramius]

THere's software to get past the hardware encryption. Just gotta search it out. as long as the original is write protected, you can't ruin it unless you're chewing on the contact end like you would a pen or fingernail. They are secure digital, just as stated above, if you screw it up and they can verify you were doing something they don't want to allow, then you're f**ked and gotta buy a new one. :/

[lumis]

THere's software to get past the hardware encryption. Just gotta search it out. as long as the original is write protected, you can't ruin it unless you're chewing on the contact end like you would a pen or fingernail. They are secure digital, just as stated above, if you screw it up and they can verify you were doing something they don't want to allow, then you're f**ked and gotta buy a new one. :/

You don't happen to know the name of this software, do you? Because I've looked for like 2 hours and have turned up nothing. I really thought Recovery Manager would work, but no dice.

[InXess]

You are not the first one to try to tap into GPS maps (just check newgroups). They are not only secured on the media also ID'd (integrity verified by GPS unit). Even if you copy successfully the content chances are your GPS won't recognize your backup. You should read more on Secure Digital features and tech info. As a boater myself I've heard some stories about the quest for GPS maps "fair use"...

Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM), the copyright protection technology used for the SD Memory Card, is key to enabling a new distribution system for music and other commercial media, because it assures a high level of protection against illegal copying. The technology was developed by 4C (The digital contents copyright protection technology licensing organization of IBM, Intel, Matsushita, and Toshiba.)

Having a proven record in DVD, this protection is enhanced in the SD Memory Card through the use of "key revocation" technology that is built into the card.

The card's control circuitry allows data to be read and written (in its protection area) only when appropriate external devices are detected. A check-out (copying) from a PC to the SD Memory Card is restricted to 3 copies in compliance with the SDMI specification. All SD-Audio products comply with SDMI.

The SD Memory Card copyright protection function has the following features:
Access to the SD Memory Card must be enabled by authentication between devices
A random number is generated each time there is mutual authentication and exchange of security information

http://www.sdcard.org/sd_memorycard/index.html

My take: no way you'll EVER be able to beat that thing, sorry.

[lumis]

I opened up some of the files in hex workshop and it didnt look scrambled or anything. But I guess I'm defeated for now.

[NormaJ]

Lumis, I'm not sure this will work, since didn't try it myself, but you may want to give it an eye. It's about creating an image, just as Decrypter does with movies. Sounds well, I guess.

http://www.towodo.com/products/allimage/

14 days free trial, so you wont be losing much, either.
Cheers

[lumis]

NormaJ,

I'll give it a shot later on this week when I'm back over at my friends house. Thanks for the suggestion.

[InXess]

I opened up some of the files in hex workshop and it didnt look scrambled or anything. But I guess I'm defeated for now.

So you have hooked it up to the card reader ...(?)

[Doramius]

You'll have to check out a P2P network or Newsgroups. I don't know of any offhand, and they are pretty hidden, so it probably will take some time to find what you are looking for, but it can be done. If something can be encrypted, it can be decrypted. SD cards were just a much better way of putting data encryption on a flash drive, though you can encrypt data pretty well on any flash media. SD cards seem to be the choice by many manufaturers. Not sure why. I honestly thought CF cards would have been a better choice, but I haven't been following that technology very closely for a while.

[lumis]

I opened up some of the files in hex workshop and it didnt look scrambled or anything. But I guess I'm defeated for now.

So you have hooked it up to the card reader ...(?)

Yes, I hooked it up to a USB card reader and created a backup of the card with Recovery Manager Pro by Vaiosoft. The card still worked fine in the fishing device afterwards.

[lumis]

You'll have to check out a P2P network or Newsgroups. I don't know of any offhand, and they are pretty hidden, so it probably will take some time to find what you are looking for, but it can be done. If something can be encrypted, it can be decrypted. SD cards were just a much better way of putting data encryption on a flash drive, though you can encrypt data pretty well on any flash media. SD cards seem to be the choice by many manufaturers. Not sure why. I honestly thought CF cards would have been a better choice, but I haven't been following that technology very closely for a while.

Well, I'll take a look around. But I'm not sure exactly what to be looking for.

[Doramius]

Someone told me once that the SD cards use the same CSS encryption as DVDs use. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but I'm just wondering if running an OTF(on the Fly) CSS removal program could help. The only thing is to get it to try and recognize the SD card instead of a DVD drive. Again, I haven't followed flash media for a while.

Might be worth a try though. Try it on your backup.

[InXess]

Someone told me once that the SD cards use the same CSS encryption as DVDs use.

This is exactly what the quote I posted above says...

I see you guys like the challenge of it Keep us posted... and good luck.

[Doramius]

I guess it's the same thing. It didn't say anything about DVDs or CSS. But like I said, if the encryption software is the same, then it wouldn't be as difficult to make a copy. The only problem I see is the random number to the copy. Maybe You'd have to find a way to sync it so the numbers matched? It may not matter at all, but that seems to be a key point being emphasized.