What's the point - VCDs won't play on anything common!

[calabash]

After spending two weeks in a crash course w/a Dazzle capture "card", having my sanity saved by finding this site, (search under tutorials of all things) I am posting my "take" on VCDs for a sanity check.
Possessing only a 800Mhz PIII, I conclude that VCDs are pointless to make for anything but computer playback. This knocks them out of the running in my mind for that time consuming conversion of 800+ video tapes to disk. I have two Sony DVD players, one Panasonic and I went into a Circuit City to try a Pioneer. Not one of the *))$#! things could play the disc and two wouldn't even acknowledge it! Plays great on the PC with a soft DVD player. So VCDs are great for guys/girls in dorm rooms and personal use after you spend another 200 dollars for that mythical standalone player that will read a burned VCD as opposed to stamped VCD. But as far as meeting a random individual, becoming friends and wanting to share your home movies -- forget it! The odds of them having a compatable player seems unlikely!
Now please tell me I'm wrong and that there is something I'm not doing right. <sigh> Hardware: PIII 800Mhz w/256Mb RAM and a Teac 24X10X40 CD-RW Media: CD-R Memorex Black @ 16X, TDK DATA 24x and Fujifilm CD-RW 4X and TEAC CD-RW 10X. Software: Capturing through Dazzle dongle & SB Audigy card using Ulead's Video Studio. Converting AVI to NTSC VCD format with TMPGE engine and burning to CD with CD-Creator 5 Plat.

[buzz10]

It has to be something you are not doing right in the creation process, because VCD's are not a myth. There are ton's of us out there that make them everyday with no problem. I suggest you keep reading everything you can on this site and keep experimenting. It does work (ESPECIALLY on a Pioneer!)

[w00kiee]

uhmm.. not a myth

dvd players that play vcd can be had for less than $100

http://www.dvd-wizards.com/vcdhelp/VCD-NTSC.zip

vcd sample in bin/cue format.. get something -fireburner perhaps- that burns bin files and test that out

if that works then you need to review your procedures in vcd creation

[energy80s]

Look for standalone DVD players based on PC DVD-ROM Drives (usually the cheaper end of the market) as they will play just about any disc you put into them.

[TheInformer]

calabash: Save your sanity. Look to the left hand side of this site and
you will notice links to all sorts of good information. Here is the link
you should check out first:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php

There you can check out which DVD players can play what formats.

Just my two cents...

[calabash]

Sanity not saved. All the players I've tried support VCD playing. I did check the list before posting. I'm aware of Sony quirks (C 13:00 error) But if I can't play a burned VCD in any of 4 players by 3 companies (all mainstream) the format is a joke. But hang on, I'm going to try the test mentioned to me by w00kiee and go from there.
Thanks,
-Moondance

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-31 14:45:56, TheInformer wrote:
calabash: Save your sanity. Look to the left hand side of this site and
you will notice links to all sorts of good information. Here is the link
you should check out first:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php

There you can check out which DVD players can play what formats.

Just my two cents...

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[calabash]

Okay, found and installed fireburner, downloaded zip. It unzips to a MPEG file. I loaded it into fireburner and it says audio. I'm looking at the tutorial, but I have a more current copy of fireburner.. so.. no cue files. Is that okay?
-M

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On 2001-12-31 14:39:54, w00kiee wrote:
uhmm.. not a myth

dvd players that play vcd can be had for less than $100

http://www.dvd-wizards.com/vcdhelp/VCD-NTSC.zip

vcd sample in bin/cue format.. get something -fireburner perhaps- that burns bin files and test that out

if that works then you need to review your procedures in vcd creation



</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[calabash]

Okay. burned test file. Results: worse--won't recognize VCD at all. But, as I mentioned, I did not have any CUE files from the zip. Just one MPEG file.
When doing my own, the player would recognize that a VCD was in it, but wouldn't play it.
I tried Track at once burning and Disk at once burning (in Roxio's product) and copying the newly burned cd to another cd as well as burning to a CDRW.
<sigh>
-MF

[themamboman]

Many Sony DVD players won't recognize the colored CD-r's. They will, however, work with CDRW discs. Did you try those?

[calabash]

Yes. I found that little hint in one of the posts I researched. Also in my one-of-3 burning/video reference books it was mentioned that some players prefer different foils. Blue/Green being the most compliant I believe.
I don't mind nitpicking my way to create the VCD. I do mind having to ask friends what DVD player do they have and can they get me the model number. Really, that's silly.
Since the prices are about to drop for DVD burners, _and_ if the problem is not the same, I'm thinking I'll just have to write off my 200 dollar investment in this project and dump some serious money into DVD tech. <sigh> DVD seems overkill for what I need however. But if it does not carry the compatablility issues that VCD seems to have.. well what's a mother to do? <smile>
I haven't given up quite yet though. If I could just prove to myself that _I'm_ burning correctly, I'd be happy to take the industry to task for false advertising. (ie will play stamped VCDs as opposed to burned VCDs) Personally, if I were Sony or any other top end brand that deals in content as well, do I really _want_ to produce a reader that will read burned media?!?
-Moondance

[TheInformer]

calabash: Have you tried just burning the MPEG-1 files to a CDR
as files and not as a VCD? Some DVD players will recognise the
files on the CDR and will give you the option of playing them,
much as they do MP3 files.

On a related note, I myself am going the DVD recordable route
as soon as my tax return check comes back in February. Hopefully
by then the "standards" will have become a bit clearer.

Just my two cents...

[Martok]

Try burning with Nero. I play VCDs on a JVC KV-523 standalone DVD without any problem. They look "almost" as good as my Mitsubishi S-VHS. Try encoding with TMPGEnc. Start with standard VCD encoding, read "ALL" the guides, then play with the settings. My VCDs play on anything (so far) except Sony, as they produce flicks and don't want you to be able to copy them.

[sommersby]

I have four different dvd players in my house and all play vcd's just fine, it is something in your process, no question of that, you need to find out what, we need to now your exact process and setting, just do a simple 10 minute capture, encode and burn but keep track of your exact settings so we can help.

[MegaBit]

Calabash- Try Nero like Martok suggests. I have burned tons of VCDs and they seem to play on most everything. CD-RW media will usually do the trick with some stubborn DVD players. Nero has a demo that will run for a minute or two.

As for DVD... I made that jump a month ago and so far the compatability has been less than anything I would have hoped for. I'm using an HP DVD+RW DVD100i which is supposed to be "more" compatible than DVD-Rw but it's costed me $$$ in the form of a new CD-DVD for the PC and a new progressive scan DVD for the home theater plus more $$$ on software in an insane attempt to gain the best compatability (they all do things a little different with files). I'm still not satisfied and when I need a quick disc from DV, I go to SVCD and Nero. It may be worth a short wait on DVD so the list of compatible players can grow.

[Greg12]

You are burning VCD's with Nero's VCD tab?


You CANNOT burn VCD's by simply putting MPEG's on a ISO data disk.

[ktjensen]

I bought Nero. I burned a CDR VCD using an *.AVI file first (use a simple *.AVI file like the few that are on the WINDOWS 95 or 98 install disk). I am using a Daewoo DVD player. It worked the first time I put the CDR into my Daewoo. Absolutely no problems.

Have you ever burned an audio MP3 CDR? It takes time to get it all right, but when you do it is perfect.

[ravonaf]

I'm having a similar problem. I have a samsung DVD 511. It's on the list as playing vcd's but everytime I attempt to play a burned one I get a "no disk" error. The compatibility list does say it won't play cdr. Does a cdr burned as a vcd still count as a cdr?

Ravonaf

[bilbogod]

Does a rose by any other name smell the same??? (sorry!!)

Factory printed vcds and vcd burned cdrs are not the same. Even if your player is only compatible with "original vcds" experimenting with different brands will usually yield some positive results (funnily enough the expensive ones tend to work).

[dumwaldo]

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On 2001-12-31 15:47:57, calabash wrote:
Yes. I found that little hint in one of the posts I researched. Also in my one-of-3 burning/video reference books it was mentioned that some players prefer different foils. Blue/Green being the most compliant I believe.
I don't mind nitpicking my way to create the VCD. I do mind having to ask friends what DVD player do they have and can they get me the model number. Really, that's silly.
Since the prices are about to drop for DVD burners, _and_ if the problem is not the same, I'm thinking I'll just have to write off my 200 dollar investment in this project and dump some serious money into DVD tech. <sigh> DVD seems overkill for what I need however. But if it does not carry the compatablility issues that VCD seems to have.. well what's a mother to do? <smile>
I haven't given up quite yet though. If I could just prove to myself that _I'm_ burning correctly, I'd be happy to take the industry to task for false advertising. (ie will play stamped VCDs as opposed to burned VCDs) Personally, if I were Sony or any other top end brand that deals in content as well, do I really _want_ to produce a reader that will read burned media?!?
-Moondance
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right in the dvd player list on this site it lists the types of media the players support. stop banging your head and check it. this sounds 100% like a media problem. make sure you are using compatible media or the dvd player will say no disc. burning a VCD on a CDR and trying to play it in a player that only supports CD-RW is like trying to play a beta tape on yout VHS player. sure you can shove the tape in but its not going to work. yes the type of media is THAT important and the method of burning is for the most part completely inconcequential.

so you mind having to ask your friends what kind of player they have and then checking this site for 30 seconds? well to bad, hook a vcr to your dvd player and make a VHS tape then. since i have figured out how to use this site i have never had a problem bringing a vcd to a friends house because i ask them what player they have first and use the right media.

[ravonaf]

Alas. It but seems my Rose has been dipped in shit.
I just tried a cdrw. It spins up but still no play. What about a PS2. The campatability list says it plays cdr but not vcd. Should my PS2 be able to play a cdr/vcd?

Ravonaf

[vitualis]

People, read the owner's manual or the product specfications before buying a player.

If a player doesn't explicitly say that it plays both VCDs and CD-R/W media, then logically it wasn't designed for it. Needless to say, if it wasn't designed for it, there's a pretty good chance you're going to have a problem.

If you VCD doesn't work on a player that is both CD-R and VCD compatible, it means that you've stuffed up somewhere when you were making your disc.

Just about every DVD player on the market is VCD compatible but many (especially larger brands -- notoriously Sony) do not put CD-R compatibility on their players. This means you can't play audio CDs on CD-R either. It is not a conspiracy against VCDs. Non CD-R compatible drives are simply cheaper to produce.

However, on most of these players, you will be able to find some brands of CD-R and especially CD-RW media that will work just fine.

The moral is that if you are looking for a new DVD player, makes sure that it plays both VCDs, SVCDs and is CD-R/W compatible. Having a test disc in hand is a damn good idea.

Regards.

[likwid8]

calabash:

Its in the process your doing it in, your either birning it wrong or your burning it RAW mpeg-1... Do realize VCd is MPEG-1 and not MPEG-2.. That can result in a difficulty and to make sure it plays VCD, when you capture with your *Dazzle Card*, well even though it saves it as a mpeg, re encode it to vcd aswell in tmgenc so your practically sure, AVI are useless and dont even bother. Another thing is that make sure your DVD player supports VCD/CDR well ok thnxs


(¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.- Likwid8 @ A8D-FXP TEAM -.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: likwid8 on 2001-12-31 21:13:37 ]</font>

[RFontenot]

CD-R and CD-RW capability is pretty much a given on all new DVD players. All of the new Sony DVD players read CD-R(W), with the exception of their bottom of the line player, and I expect that will be replaced soon with a CD-R(W) model.

Pioneer players can pretty much read anything you place in the tray. If not, then you've screwed up somewhere, or are using some really bad (cheap) media.

RF

[next]

Actually calabash could be right and we are just figments of our own imagination.

[w00kiee]

actually virtualis brought up a nice quick test.. just burn a regular audio cd on cd-r media (one that will play in your cd player) and then pop it into the dvd players. if they spit it out then you are SOL. if they read them then you are likely burning the vcd wrong.

oh.. sorry for that link.. thought it was a bin/cue. if its an mpeg you just use nero (using the VCD option in the wizard) and drag the mpeg over then burn. the default settings of nero make vcds fine. but try the audio cd test first.

http://www.nero.com/en/index2.htm <- link for nero

[calabash]

Ah. Sony's player does not claim CD-R compatability on the front, and, having bought it before this project was concieved I did not know to look for the CD-R spec. However, I stuffed a burned audio cd on Memorex Black CD-R media and it played.
I must be doing something wrong with the VCDs. I can't think what. Let me write down exactly my steps and post. I'll pay particular attention to the CODECs that I'm using.
Happy New Year!
-Moondance
[quote]
On 2001-12-31 20:53:47, vitualis wrote:
<<snip
If you VCD doesn't work on a player that is both CD-R and VCD compatible, it means that you've stuffed up somewhere when you were making your disc.
snip>>

[calabash]

The durn player knows it has a VCD in it. Just won't play. I'm going to post the exact CODECs I'm using and in what order. Then mayhap someone will untangle this ball of yarn I've got myself into.
Thanks,
Moondance
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On 2001-12-31 17:50:56, dumwaldo wrote:
<<snip
this sounds 100% like a media problem. make sure you are using compatible media or the dvd player will say no disc.
<<snip
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[dumwaldo]

calabash we all understand the frustration of burning coasters when learning to make VCD's however something that does not seem to go over to well is hostile angry sounding posts. your last post was outstanding and if you keep posting in that manner i am 100% sure you will be able to find the help you need and you will get this worked out.

just a few quick peices of advice,
just as you are doing, it is important to include as much information as seems practical.

before making a post try looking over this site thouroughly. after you have looked over the site a few times it becomes remarkable quick and easy to find the info you need because you know where it is.

do not accept any one persons say so as fact for anything. consider all the options presented and use your own experience and knowledge to figure out what to do.

all the discussion in the world will not replace practical experience. try things and sometimes fail. there is no shame in that, it is how we all learn new things. it can be frustrating but in the long run people tend to remember practical lessons far better than spoken lessons.

the final and most important thing is NEVER accept defeat where someone else has succeeded.

[billthomas501]

I think Calabash's prob is that TGMPENC and the actual burning process. You may wanna use the template for TGMPENC "video cd NTSC" and make sure that u use nero I was useing the adaptec plat and it was making coasters for me also......... I hope this works if not let the forum know and they will continue to help u. And for DVD players get the cheapest one usually the ("APEX" DVD PLAYER( circuit city has a sell on it for 75 dollars and a return policy up to 14 days man.... HOLLA BACK DUDE.....

[PaulC]

Pentium 1, 48mb RAM, 6.4Gb Hard Disk writes VCD with EasyCD that will play on the cheapest DVD players I can find (sub £80)

Better quality for still frames than VHS, useful for my interest (learning kite tricks).

Works for me