What version of TMPGEnc works with TooLame?

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, my e-Friends!

As you can read elsewhere on this forum, many people talk about a TMPGEnc that works with TooLame set up externally in order to encode MP2 (MPA) files, but my question is, which version and type of TMPGEnc does this? I am just interested in working with standalone audio MP2 files, so I video files are of no interest to me. In view of this, is there sort of a mini- TMPGEnc that works with audio files only?

Cheers,

Carlos Albert "Disco Mak"
discomakberto(at)megamixers(dot)co(dot)uk

[celtic_druid]

The standard TMPGEnc.
http://download1.pegasys-inc.com/download_files/TMPGEnc-2.524.63.181-Free.zip
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/download/tp.html

[Disco Makberto]

Thanks very much, Celtic_Druid!

I have another question, or comment, I must say. I transcoded a Wav file to MP2 via TMPGEnc built-in encoder, and then I did the same using TooLame. To my amusement, both sound equally the same (the encoded bitrate I used was 384 kbps). Could it be that the newest TMPGEnc built-encoder is based on TooLame? Or is it that at 384 kbps all (or almost all) different encoders do pretty much the same work?

Bye for now,

Carlos Albert "DiscoMak"

[celtic_druid]

384 is a very high bitrate. I'd start lower if you want to ABX them.
Possible that there have been improvments in TMPGEnc's encoder, but no I don't think they are using TooLame.

[yoda313]

Yeah you could easily use 256 for stereo sources and it should be more than adequate and take up a little less space.

[Disco Makberto]

Thanks for all replies!

Up to a point, I am not a big fan of "throwing in hours and hours" of music on an "Audio DVD". So, my question is, assuming that I have a 3.2GB DVD(R), if I encode at 384kbps, how many hours of music can I record? What about at 256kbps? (Excuse me if these are 'dumb' questions). To the totals, we need to substract 1/2 an hour or so that are needed for the mimimalistic video section.

Thumbs up,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[FulciLives]

Why are you using MP2 to create a "music" disc?

You should be using MP3 or AC-3 instead.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yoda313]

Well not to confuse him any more but you can't use mp3 if your making it a "dvd" disc. If your using it as a data disc yes but mp3 isn't acceptable as an audio source for dvd video. And only a few mp3 playing dvd players can read mp3's off of a recordable dvd as files.

[Disco Makberto]

Yoda313 is right. The reason why I am using MP2 and not MP3 is because MP3 is not a specification for DVD Video discs. So, my MP2 files will be accompained by the VOB, etc., files. On a related note, I did some comparison with MP1 files, but no, MP2 sounds better, particularly at 384kbps as I said before.

cAlbert L "DiscoMak"

[FulciLives]

Yoda313 is right. The reason why I am using MP2 and not MP3 is because MP3 is not a specification for DVD Video discs. So, my MP2 files will be accompained by the VOB, etc., files. On a related note, I did some comparison with MP1 files, but no, MP2 sounds better, particularly at 384kbps as I said before.

cAlbert L "DiscoMak"

Well if you are creating a DVD Video "music" disc then my question still makes sense ... notice I did mention AC-3 as well as MP3.

Anyways I understand NOW what you are doing SO it makes a lot more sense to use AC-3 than MP2.

AC-3 is better quality and DVD compliant.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, FulciLives!

I respectfully disagree. Although I haven't tested AC3 files myself, you can read many comments that MP3 files at 320 kbps are supposed to be better; I think "Audio DVD Creator" states this. In a like manner, you can find comments stating that MP2 files at 384 kbps are virtually undistinguishable from MP3 files at 320 kbps. Hence, I think that MP2 files make some sense.

On the capacity issue, okay, AC3 is better (more space). Then again, how much do I lose by using MP2 files as opposed to AC3 or even MP3? Going up from 320 kbps to 384 kbps isn't much of an issue, or is it?

Okay, 192 kbps is the "sweet spot", but again, I don't mind losing some recording time on a 3.8 GB DVD(R).

Carl-Bert "DiscoMak"

[kschang]

If you got space to burn, you may as well use FLAC or AAC

[Disco Makberto]

Thank you for your recommendations, Kschang! The only drawback is that FLAC and ACC are mainly supported via software as opposed to MP2, AC3, etc. that are also supported via hardware.

Regards,

Carlos Albert "DiscoMak"

[kschang]

Supported by WHAT hardware is the question. You never mentioned your target hardware level.

I guess for ultimate quality PCM/WAV is best... But if you need SOME compression then you'll need FLAC / AAC, then MP2/MP3.

[Cornucopia]

Going for Full DVD-Video Compatibility, you would either use LPCM (WAV, AIFF) source, along with your "still or VeryLowBitrate video" in the VOB files if you wanted highes quality, going down from there to still fairly high quality and yet full DVD-Video compatibility would be AC3 at ~384kbps (max rate for 2ch). Yes you can use MP2, but it isn't TOTALLY compatible in NTSC lands. That would be the next step down. If you want more files/time, lower the bitrate.
AC3 should be ok for 320, 256, 224, 192, maybe 160kbps.
MP2 should be ok for 384, 320, 256, 224, maybe 192kbps.
(You could even try DTS here, if it were available to you, but it isn't supposed to be the lone/premiere audio format on a disc either)

Then, below that (compatibility-wise), you could try mp3. (for the settops that accept mp3 files, particularly on DVD)

After that, you should just consider it a Data DVD disc (which wouldn't be playable in settops). Then, any format you prefer would work--AAC/MP4, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, Monkeys, DTS

Scott

[Cornucopia]

BTW, Why do you keep mentioning these weird, slightly small DVD-R disc sizes?
3.2GB, 3.8GB?

DVD-R (General) comes in only 2 sizes: 4.37GB (full 12cm disc) and ?1.25GB? (8cm disc).

Scott

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, Kschang and Cornocopia!

Yes, with MP2 via "Audio DVD" video, the limitation will be in the NTSC system, but if I use a standalone multi-standard DVD player that plays both NTSC and PAL DVD's by default, this shouldn't be an issue.

Regards,

CAL "DiscoMak"

[Disco Makberto]

Hey, Cornucopia!

I meant to say 3.8 GB DVD(R), but we still need to substract like 30 minutes or 45 minutes or something like that which are needed for the minimalistic video section, hence my reference to 3.2 GB DVD(R), which I think I got it wrong, anyway, but it's very close to that figure.

One way or another, I think that these 3.8 GB DVD(R)'s are dinosaurs now, but I still remember their reference. You can read about them here:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fdlp/pubs/proceedings/99pro5.html

Bye for now,

Carlos Albert "DiscoMak"

[Cornucopia]

Watch out when citing tech stuff written by non-techies. They got it wrong, in a way.

The old DVD-R (Authoring) type discs were originally 3.95G, which worked out to 3.68GB.
They later expanded to 4.7G, which works out to 4.37GB; then split the DVD-R specification to have (Authoring) and (General). General is the one just about ALL consumers/small businesses use ( not talking about + or - here, just - ). And it doesn't have a 3.95G size, just 4.7G.

Even so, you're selling yourself short. Like I mentioned in a post above, you can use MPEG STILLS for the video portion, maybe even [Video Black]. Bitrate can be rediculously low (~220kbps?). Haven't done the math, but you can certainly use the remainder for more/better audio.

Scott

[Disco Makberto]

Dear Scott,

Thank you very much for your disambiguation help.

As for the MPEG stills, they should be okay, I guess, but I wanted to include the CD/Vinly/Cassette Title, Artist(s) Name, etc. So, my MPEG stills are supposed to be MPEG stills with a black background and the above-mentioned information in white letters.

Take care,

CAL "DiscoMak"

[RabidDog]

Another point re AC3 or mp2 sound would be that yon chappie is familiar with tmpenc and toolame which he can quite happily encode to mp2 but I am not aware of any similar cheap or free ac3 encoding solutions.
I like the idea keeping the album art and other stuff it would be nice to try and make that text a bit pretty tho fo the sake of nice visuals

[jimmalenko]

ffmpeggui and besweet/belight are free for AC3 or MP2. Only 2ch though.