2.35:1 content. really anamorphic?!

[giosa]

I've got short and precise question. When dvd box says 2.35:1 anamorphic, Would it still show horizontal black bars, if I would watch it on 2.35:1 display?
Yes or No?

[Baldrick]

Yes, it will show black borders if it doesn't has some automatic zoom....but there are no 2.35:1 displays for home users.

[BJ_M]

Runco video projectors display Movies in the 2.35:1 Aspect Ratio

http://www.avrev.com/news/1004/1.runco.html

[Baldrick]

$10000 isn't for "home users"...in my world then...

[FulciLives]

WIDESCREEN Televisions have an aspect ratio of 16:9 which is basically 1.78:1 so any movie that has a ratio above that will have black on the top and bottom of the movie image.

Many movies are 1.85:1 so they have a tiny bit of black on the top and bottom but often times you will NOT see the black because even though it is there the TV OVERSCAN "hides" it as there is only a small sliver of black on the top and bottom.

In case you do not realize this ... all televisions have OVERSCAN which is a term used to explain that a television does NOT display the "extreme" edges of the video image.

2.35:1 is a lot "wider" than 1.78:1 so yes you will see some black above and below the movie image.

Another popular movie ratio is 1.66:1 and sometimes that will be made anamorphic but in those cases there will be a lot of black on the left and right of the movie image but again sometimes you see it and sometimes you will not because of TV OVERSCAN. Every TV is different with some showing more of the extreme edges than others but none show the image 100%

Also to clarify if a movie is "anamorphic widescreen" that just means that it was encoded to take advantage of the extra "real estate" one gets with a 16:9 WS TV but the ratio can be 1.66:1 or 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 etc. yet still be "anamorphic widescreen" or sometimes the DVD will say, "enhanced for 16x9 televisions"

So in short an "anamorphic widescreen" movie is not automatically have a ratio of 16:9 or 1.78:1

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[giosa]

"Yes, it will show black borders if it doesn't has some automatic zoom....but there are no 2.35:1 displays for home users."

"Also to clarify if a movie is "anamorphic widescreen" that just means that it was encoded to take advantage of the extra "real estate" one gets with a 16:9 WS TV but the ratio can be 1.66:1 or 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 etc. yet still be "anamorphic widescreen" or sometimes the DVD will say, "enhanced for 16x9 televisions"

So does it mean that for dvds with 2:35 AR black bars are encoded in and one would not be able to utilize all of the vertical resolution say 480 for NTSC, thus it comes out letterboxed and not anamorphic. Am I right?

[guns1inger]

No, it is anamorphic (in the DVD use of the term), but it still has black bars because it cannot fill the screen top to bottom and be 2.35:1. 2.35 or 2.39 (The Incredibles) or 2.40 (Lawrence of Arabia) are wider than 1.78 (16:9), so even if they are anamorphic, they will still have black bars.

[AngusMacGyver]

So does it mean that for dvds with 2:35 AR black bars are encoded in and one would not be able to utilize all of the vertical resolution say 480 for NTSC, thus it comes out letterboxed and not anamorphic. Am I right?

In my opinion, "letterboxed" and "anamorphic" mean the same thing.
And yes, anamorphic movies don't use full resolution of video, once some areas are black.

[guns1inger]

In DVD speak, Letterbox and Anamorphic are not the same. Letterbox material is encoded within a 4:3 frame, with large black bars. When played back on a 4:3, it appears as a band across the centre, but when played back on a widescreen TV, it appears as a mailslot in the centre, with black borders all around. This can be compensated for using the zoom function on either the player or the TV. An Anamorphic DVD will go from edge to edge on a widescreen TV.

A simple test to see the difference. Using a standard 4:3 TV that does not have widescreen switching capabilities, set the DVD player for 16:9 output. Playback a Letterbox DVD, and you get a standard looking image, going from edge to edge, with bars top and bottom. The image will be correctlt proportioned. Playback an Anamorphic (or 16:9 Enhanced, or Enhanced for Widescreen, or whatever other hollywood decriptor is used) DVD on the same setup, and the image will be stretched vertically. This shows the extra image information stored in this type of disc.

[Baldrick]

images that explain it: http://gregl.net/videophile/anamorphic.htm

[AngusMacGyver]

In DVD speak, Letterbox and Anamorphic are not the same. Letterbox material is encoded within a 4:3 frame, with large black bars. When played back on a 4:3, it appears as a band across the centre, but when played back on a widescreen TV, it appears as a mailslot in the centre, with black borders all around. This can be compensated for using the zoom function on either the player or the TV. An Anamorphic DVD will go from edge to edge on a widescreen TV.

A simple test to see the difference. Using a standard 4:3 TV that does not have widescreen switching capabilities, set the DVD player for 16:9 output. Playback a Letterbox DVD, and you get a standard looking image, going from edge to edge, with bars top and bottom. The image will be correctlt proportioned. Playback an Anamorphic (or 16:9 Enhanced, or Enhanced for Widescreen, or whatever other hollywood decriptor is used) DVD on the same setup, and the image will be stretched vertically. This shows the extra image information stored in this type of disc.

OK, I meant in practical basis letterboxed and anamorphic are the same thing. I agree all you wrote.

[giosa]

well i rephrase my question, Is a 2.35:1 material on anamorphic dvd, incoded within a 1.78:1 frame or 2.35:1 frame?

[yoda313]

In my opinion, "letterboxed" and "anamorphic" mean the same thing.

Technically isn't letterboxed hardcoded widescreen? I thought that was like the vhs widescreen that doesn't stretch for widescreen tvs? Also a lot of early dvds were letterboxed but not animorphic. Great way for hollywood to get you to rebuy the same movie for your new shiny hdtv :P :P

[garryheather]

Great way for hollywood to get you to rebuy the same movie for your new shiny hdtv :P :P

No, that's what Blu-Ray et-al is for...

[jagabo]

well i rephrase my question, Is a 2.35:1 material on anamorphic dvd, incoded within a 1.78:1 frame or 2.35:1 frame?

DVD only supports two aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Anamorphic movies that are wider than 16:9 (1.78:1) still have some black borders. But not as much as when encoded as non-anamorphic 4:3.

A non anamorphic 2.35:1 DVD will have a ~720x272 picture within a 720x480 frame. Anamorphically it will have ~720x364 picture within a 720x480 frame.

[giosa]

well i rephrase my question, Is a 2.35:1 material on anamorphic dvd, incoded within a 1.78:1 frame or 2.35:1 frame?

DVD only supports two aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Anamorphic movies that are wider than 16:9 (1.78:1) still have some black borders. But not as much as when encoded as non-anamorphic 4:3.

A non anamorphic 2.35:1 DVD will have a ~720x272 picture within a 720x480 frame. Anamorphically it will have ~720x364 picture within a 720x480 frame.

Would anamorphic movies that are wider than 1.78 have black borders, if there were 2.35 displays available for consumer market?

[yoda313]

If you had legit 2.35 display for the home thus a 2.35:1 movie SHOULD have no black borders and cover the entire tv picture.

[garryheather]

Those numbers are for NTSC, of course. PAL has a few extra lines thrown into the mix.

[FulciLives]

There is a thread over at the AVS FORUM on how to set up a FRONT PRJECTOR so that you can use a screen with a "fixed" aspect ratio of 2.35:1

Apparently you can set it up this way so that a film with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 will fill your screen and if the ratio is less than that (say 1.85:1) then the height will be the same but the width will be less.

Sounds like a nice idea but you have to have a front projector and some serious money for the equipment needed (which includes an external scaler).

An expensive solution but one that supposedly squeezes more quality out of a 16x9 anamorphic 2.35:1 movie than what a traditional 16x9 TV does today.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[giosa]

If you had legit 2.35 display for the home thus a 2.35:1 movie SHOULD have no black borders and cover the entire tv picture.

When I play 2.35:1 dvd's on my computer display with software dvd players like VLC media player, there's still black bars and VLC screen doesn't resise to 2.35:1 AR. That made me think that the dvd's are econded 1.78, henece they are not 2.35 anamorphic, rather 1.78. But this may also be because of VLC not dvd discs. And if there were media player with 2.35 support we would not see black bars while playing this dvds on computer display. What you guys think?

[yoda313]

a traditional 16x9 TV

I love how that sounds. Tech really matures fast doesn't it??? It wasn't that long ago a widescreen tv was "brand spankin new"

[yoda313]

If you had legit 2.35 display for the home thus a 2.35:1 movie SHOULD have no black borders and cover the entire tv picture.

When I play 2.35:1 dvd's on my computer display with software dvd players like VLC media player, there's still black bars and VLC screen doesn't resise to 2.35:1 AR. That made me think that the dvd's are econded 1.78, henece they are not 2.35 anamorphic, rather 1.78. But this may also be because of VLC not dvd discs. And if there were media player with 2.35 support we would not see black bars while playing this dvds on computer display. What you guys think?

You would need a widescreen computer monitor. They make widescreen lcd monitors these days. Though I doubt any are full 2.35:1.

[giosa]

If you had legit 2.35 display for the home thus a 2.35:1 movie SHOULD have no black borders and cover the entire tv picture.

When I play 2.35:1 dvd's on my computer display with software dvd players like VLC media player, there's still black bars and VLC screen doesn't resise to 2.35:1 AR. That made me think that the dvd's are econded 1.78, henece they are not 2.35 anamorphic, rather 1.78. But this may also be because of VLC not dvd discs. And if there were media player with 2.35 support we would not see black bars while playing this dvds on computer display. What you guys think?

You would need a widescreen computer monitor. They make widescreen lcd monitors these days. Though I doubt any are full 2.35:1.

I know there are not 2.35 monitors out there, but i'm talking when you watch dvd on computer display (even 1.33) not in full screen mode, but as it pops up after you insert disk into your computer. If it's 1.33 content VLC's screen is more square form, if a disk is 1.78 VLC's screen resizes wider, but if the content is even wider say 2.35 the playrs window doesn't resize to accomodate that width, it's AR remains the same as in case of 1.78, but adds black bars on top and bottom. Did you got point?

[BJ_M]

computer screens are square pixels btw -- not the same as on home display

[FulciLives]

When I play 2.35:1 dvd's on my computer display with software dvd players like VLC media player, there's still black bars and VLC screen doesn't resise to 2.35:1 AR. That made me think that the dvd's are econded 1.78, henece they are not 2.35 anamorphic, rather 1.78. But this may also be because of VLC not dvd discs. And if there were media player with 2.35 support we would not see black bars while playing this dvds on computer display. What you guys think?

You still don't get it ... did you read the link that Balkdrick posted? I'm talking about this here link:

http://gregl.net/videophile/anamorphic.htm

A movie with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 can be 16x9 anamorphic widescreen but there are still black bars above and below the image because when you "fit" a 2.35:1 image inside a 16x9 space (and again 16x9 is roughly 1.78:1) then you have dead space on the top and bottom of the image if it is to fit from right to left.

Pehaps later tonight or tomorrow I will post some actual movie pics from various DVD discs with various aspect ratio's so you can "see" the difference but for now that website link provided by Baldrick should help you to understand.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

a picture is worth a thousand words

[giosa]

Of course I understand that 2.35 wouldn't fit 1.78 tv screen without black bars, but what i was trying to find out has in fact been answered by the linky posted by balkdrik quote from it "So, 20:9 anamorphic probably won't happen for DVD. However, a new, higher-resolution DVD, called DVD-HD, is due around 2003, perhaps earlier. DVD-HD discs will be incompatible with today's DVD players, though DVD-HD players will play today's DVDs. Since DVD-HD will require new players anyway, that would be a great opportunity to add 20:9 anamorphic to the standard. Who knows, maybe someday that might even lead to 20:9 television sets. Let's hope the industry players decide to make DVD-HD 20:9 anamorphic!"

[jagabo]

Don't hold your breath.

[edDV]

TV is now standardized at 16:9 worldwide and HD/BD DVD is 16:9 1920x1080p/24 (square pixels).

I think you are a perfect candidate for a TV front projector with an automatic masking screen like the theaters use.

http://www.stjohngroup.com/blasts/SR_XMask-web.html