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  1. Member ejai's Avatar
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    Yes, but you will find that many HBO programs are not able to be recorded due to copyrights protection. These machines will not record these type of shows. There are other devices that will alllow you to bypass these protected signals and make it so you can record them. I own several and it has not been a problem at all.

    It seems to be the wave of the future, I think you will find more recorders adapting this type of copy protection scheme. I must admit that I didn't like finding out that I couldn't recorded copyrighted material on satellite TV. Like I said it is very easy to get around if you truly want to record these shows.
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    i use the clarifier w/ my apex and never had a problem. the toshiba, w/ the clarifier does not record. what do you use?
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  3. Member ejai's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakabrah
    i use the clarifier w/ my apex and never had a problem. the toshiba, w/ the clarifier does not record. what do you use?
    Sima Color Corrector and other products of this type from Sima, Datavideo TBC 1000 and AVT Tool's - AVT 8710 are excellent in this case.
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    thank you ejai, i will try those out. i just hope the firmware will fix the chapter recording problem.
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  5. Blaming the Toshiba is not the answer.You will find that a large number of programers are using varied forms of CP including that which will prevent recording to a HDD [except their own] and definitely copying to a disk, Some older machines were not compliant and ignored this. Today, I doub't that any are non compliant [The LSI chipset debate] The industry seems to be going to CP built in
    Good Clairifers, color correctors, Sima Boxes, and a Good TBC [especially the TBC could defete MV but I doubt very much that they or a company firmware update will solve the problem.
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  6. Member ejai's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LCSHG
    Good Clairifers, color correctors, Sima Boxes, and a Good TBC [especially the TBC could defete MV but I doubt very much that they or a company firmware update will solve the problem.
    Maybe in the future, but they do work now.
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  7. I wrote
    Good Clairifers, color correctors, Sima Boxes, and a Good TBC [especially the TBC could defeat MV but I doubt very much that they or a company firmware update will solve the problem.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    To clarify
    I should add to the end of my statement------[Of the latest CP]
    I believe that this was the problem as mentioned, Not only MV



    Ejai wrote
    Maybe in the future, but they do work now.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    This is interesting

    Do you say the above mentioned items will defeat CSS, CPRM and other CP methods used including those built into the recorder chipset
    Do they also allow one to copy Flagged programs from HBO, Dish or Direct satellite and many cable co.
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  8. Member ejai's Avatar
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    All I know is that I was unable to copy certain shows and movies on satellite due to them being classified as copyrighted material. After using these devices I was able to do so. I have been able to copy anything I wish, these products work fine.
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  9. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    A Full Frame external TBC like the AVT-8710 and/or the DataVideo TBC-1000 will remove all forms of copy protection including MACROVISION, CGMS/A and yes even the BROADCAST FLAG.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  10. [ FulciLives ]

    Quote
    A Full Frame external TBC like the AVT-8710 and/or the DataVideo TBC-1000 will remove all forms of copy protection including MACROVISION, CGMS/A and yes even the BROADCAST FLAG.


    LCSHG Quote
    Good Clairifers, color correctors, Sima Boxes, and a Good TBC [especially the TBC could defeat MV but I doubt very much that they or a company firmware update will solve the problem Of the latest CP
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This was worded poorly. As to the clarifiers . Sima boxes etc and firmware, [non hacked]. I feel correct in my comment.
    As to a TBC I was really referring to the type of TBC that most would purchase, about $100 to $200.

    I should like to quote some comments by yourself on an other thread, at this site
    I take No Issue with these, I only point to them as info


    Your Comments

    Most other models of Full Frame Time Base Correctors start at $900 to $1,000 US Dollars and go up from there!

    P.S.
    A Line TBC will not ... but a Full Frame TBC will eliminate ALL forms of copy protection. This is not the intended fuction of a Full Frame TBC but is rather a "side effect" of the way they work, i.e., the "re-sync" they apply to the video signal.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------



    When you say Line TBC, I agree and this is what [price wise] I was referring to but was Not Clear
    I had felt that the Prices [Over $1000 ] was Not the units referred to in the posts and would be more than most would pay. As my recorder will record any thing [so far]. I had no need for such a TBC
    To be honest I didn’t put much faith in them for the newer CP, Your comments to the AVT-8710 and the TBC-1000 were worth a look. Both units sell for around $300, At this price and they will do as stated, Anyone needing such a function, has a compliant recorder, Get It
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  11. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Last time I checked the AVT-8710 was going for around $190 and the DataVideo TBC-1000 was going for around $300 ... that's US Dollars.

    Both of these are Full Frame TBC devices (Time Base Correctors) and will eliminate all copy protection from a composite or S-video feed.

    Granted the DataVideo TBC-1000 is expensive but the AVT-8710 is cheaper and really it is not that much more than some of the more "expensive" copy protection remover devices ... devices that can cost as much as $150 or so yet do not offer the benefits of a TBC ... afterall a TBC does more to "clean up" the video than a copy protection remover device.

    It's a damn shame one needs to spend $190 or more to be able to copy a TV show etc. but things being the way they are ... we should be happy that we can buy something like a TBC device!

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  12. I paid almost $1000 for my first DVD recorder and $829 for my second one. It is a shame people have to spend that extra $190, but it's still a lot less than recorders were a few years ago.
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  13. Member johnmoon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakabrah
    johnmoon, i just spoke to toshiba service and they are going to send me a firmware. did toshiba send you one? i hope this will solve the problem.
    Ok. I just got my DR4 back from Toshiba for the second time.
    It still does not create Chapter marks on a DVD-RW or DVD-R #@%^&*&*%$#
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  14. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LCSHG
    [ FulciLives ]

    Your Comments

    P.S.
    A Line TBC will not ... but a Full Frame TBC will eliminate ALL forms of copy protection. This is not the intended fuction of a Full Frame TBC but is rather a "side effect" of the way they work, i.e., the "re-sync" they apply to the video signal.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    When you say Line TBC, I agree and this is what [price wise] I was referring to but was Not Clear
    What "Line TBC"s are you guys referring to?
    Every TBC that I know of replaces H Sync, V Sync, and Burst regardless of how much memory there is inside. DVD Recorders do this too. What they don't do is blank out the Vertical Interval in order to remove MV.

    Even a JVC TBC/DNR VCR replaces sync whenever the off tape signal is good enough. Unfortunately, it coughs whenever there is a significant dropout. Silly design oversight, IMO. I suspect that JVC would have provided Frame Synchronization in their design had they anticipated a need.

    I wonder if the Panasonic AG-19XX series VCRs provide Frame Synchronization...

    Anyway, the other thing I wanted to mention is that the first TBC in the chain should be the best one. It is the only one which will "see" timebase errors, and it will also embed any residual timing errors that it fails to correct into the image.

    For example, a DataVideo TBC in front of a Camcorder passthru or Toshiba DVD Recorder would disable the superior timebase correction capabilities of these units. What a shame! Perhaps a SIMA type device would be a better choice for these situations...
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    I received the firmware from Toshiba but it was worthless. My DR4 still was unable to record chapters. I returned it back to Sears and got a DR5 instead. Kind of the same but I noticed that the DR4 has more control in regards to tint,brightness, etc. I don't think the DR5 can customize those. As far as the image quality goes I really don't know yet. I'm still testing it. Does anyone know if the DR5 has that Cinepro thingy like the DR4 did? I know its on the DR4 box but I did not see it on the DR5 box or manual.
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  16. [ davidick ]

    The reference to me was a Quote by another person

    Line TBC, I don’t know, as I have only dealt with full frame units. I assumed that the term line was for low-end TBC units, which in my opinion are a waste of funds
    I have never had to use one even for its stated purpose but I am Sure that a GOOD TBC will, in most cases, correct a problem
    As stated I do not put much faith if any in all the boxes, gadgets etc to remove CP, Except on rare occasions MV

    It was stated by another.
    “A Full Frame external TBC like the AVT-8710 and/or the DataVideo TBC-1000 will remove all forms of copy protection including MACROVISION, CGMS/A and yes even the BROADCAST FLAG.”

    Again I have never needed one as my equipment operates just fine. --- But and I said this.
    Quote
    “Both units sell for around $300, At this price and they will do as stated, Anyone needing such a function, has a compliant recorder, Get It”

    Note I said. “At this price and they will do as stated” ----- I also said
    Quote
    “To be honest I didn’t put much faith in them for the newer CP, Your comments to the AVT-8710 and the TBC-1000 were worth a look.

    As I said I do not have a need and would not go out and buy one but if I had a compliant recorder and a problem. I would take a look at these and investigate.

    If correct It would be to any-ones advantage to get one now, As it feel that the industry will find a way to eliminate this in future units



    Your Quote
    Anyway, the other thing I wanted to mention is that the first TBC in the chain should be the best one. It is the only one which will "see" timebase errors, and it will also embed any residual timing errors that it fails to correct into the image.

    I couldn't agree more
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  17. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    @LCSHG

    I don't mean to be rude but I've noticed here as well as other threads that your ... for lack of a better word ... method ... of doing a quote is about as annoying a thing as I have found on the internet.

    Please learn how to do quotes properly or if you insist on doing it the way you have been doing it at least change the text color or something.

    The way you do it now makes things very hard to read.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  18. Member johnmoon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakabrah
    I received the firmware from Toshiba but it was worthless. My DR4 still was unable to record chapters. I returned it back to Sears and got a DR5 instead. Kind of the same but I noticed that the DR4 has more control in regards to tint,brightness, etc. I don't think the DR5 can customize those. As far as the image quality goes I really don't know yet. I'm still testing it. Does anyone know if the DR5 has that Cinepro thingy like the DR4 did? I know its on the DR4 box but I did not see it on the DR5 box or manual.
    They are sending me a firmware and a FedEx label (for return).
    Don't know if they will ever get it right. Might just have to use DVD-RAM
    and buy another recorder to do dvd-r or dvd-rw with chapters on the fly
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  19. Member johnmoon's Avatar
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    My dr-4 now does not want to load a DVD when it is turned on
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    johnmoon i feel your pain. in my last post i returned the DR 4 and exchanged it for the DR5. well i returned the DR 5 for another DR 4 HOPING that the one i first bought was a lemon. I WAS WRONG. the second DR 4 from SEARS does not record chapters too. i think its the whole shipment they got.

    on another note, i also am having problems recording HBO sports. someone recommended the video filter but even with that i still cannot record HBO sports. does anyone have similar problems with other brands like the JVC or the Pioneer or is it just that the Toshiba is extremely picky. HELP PLEASE!
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  21. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I have Comcast cable (Pittsburgh, PA area) and so far I've had no issues recording at all ... including ON DEMAND material such as HBO ON DEMAND (although I don't do any pay stuff like order movies for $3.99 etc.)

    I have a Pioneer DVR-531H-s which has been replaced in the market now with the Pioneer DVR-640H-s

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  22. Originally Posted by shakabrah
    johnmoon i feel your pain. in my last post i returned the DR 4 and exchanged it for the DR5. well i returned the DR 5 for another DR 4 HOPING that the one i first bought was a lemon. I WAS WRONG. the second DR 4 from SEARS does not record chapters too. i think its the whole shipment they got.
    Are you sure you're not confusing titles and chapters? The recorder only makes 1 title per recording.
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  23. Well, I just picked up the D-R4. I was going to get the D-R5 but the store I bought the D-R4 did not have any in stock and the D-R4 was on clearance. I bought it to replace my pioneer, that had the "video signal loss" flaw. I hope I do not have any problems like others
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  24. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by colt4523
    Well, I just picked up the D-R4. I was going to get the D-R5 but the store I bought the D-R4 did not have any in stock and the D-R4 was on clearance. I bought it to replace my pioneer, that had the "video signal loss" flaw. I hope I do not have any problems like others
    The video signal loss "flaw" of the Pioneer DVD recorders was pretty much "fixed" with the models that came out last year (i.e., the 531/533/633 etc.) and I doubt the new DVR-640H-s suffers the problem.

    However even though Pioneer "fixed" the "problem" you can bet your life on it that that when the older models have that problem that in reality you really should be using a Full Frame TBC device with that particular source. Why? The so-called video signal loss problem only happens with vidoes that have bad sync issues such as a drop-out or unstable video etc. which is all a very good reason to use a Full Frame TBC with such source material.

    In other words Pioneer beefed up their recorders to deal with such problems better now but despite that I wouldn't blame the problem on Pioneer as I would the source.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    Originally Posted by shakabrah
    johnmoon i feel your pain. in my last post i returned the DR 4 and exchanged it for the DR5. well i returned the DR 5 for another DR 4 HOPING that the one i first bought was a lemon. I WAS WRONG. the second DR 4 from SEARS does not record chapters too. i think its the whole shipment they got.
    Are you sure you're not confusing titles and chapters? The recorder only makes 1 title per recording.
    Yes, I am sure. I selected the auto 5 min chapter mark. When pressing the skip fwd button >>|
    the movie reverts back to the beggining as if there are no chapters. When I had the DR 5, the auto chapter worked and it even notified me when a new chapter was created. I think I'm going to return the DR 4 back to SEARS and get my money back. Toshiba is just too frustrating. I'll try either Pioneer or JVC.
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  26. Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Originally Posted by colt4523
    Well, I just picked up the D-R4. I was going to get the D-R5 but the store I bought the D-R4 did not have any in stock and the D-R4 was on clearance. I bought it to replace my pioneer, that had the "video signal loss" flaw. I hope I do not have any problems like others
    The video signal loss "flaw" of the Pioneer DVD recorders was pretty much "fixed" with the models that came out last year (i.e., the 531/533/633 etc.) and I doubt the new DVR-640H-s suffers the problem.

    However even though Pioneer "fixed" the "problem" you can bet your life on it that that when the older models have that problem that in reality you really should be using a Full Frame TBC device with that particular source. Why? The so-called video signal loss problem only happens with vidoes that have bad sync issues such as a drop-out or unstable video etc. which is all a very good reason to use a Full Frame TBC with such source material.

    In other words Pioneer beefed up their recorders to deal with such problems better now but despite that I wouldn't blame the problem on Pioneer as I would the source.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    My video tapes were all fine and I have an AVT-8710 anyway, which didn't help. Poor luck I guess.
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Last time I checked the AVT-8710 was going for around $190 and the DataVideo TBC-1000 was going for around $300 ... that's US Dollars.

    Both of these are Full Frame TBC devices (Time Base Correctors) and will eliminate all copy protection from a composite or S-video feed.

    Granted the DataVideo TBC-1000 is expensive but the AVT-8710 is cheaper and really it is not that much more than some of the more "expensive" copy protection remover devices ... devices that can cost as much as $150 or so yet do not offer the benefits of a TBC ... afterall a TBC does more to "clean up" the video than a copy protection remover device.

    It's a damn shame one needs to spend $190 or more to be able to copy a TV show etc. but things being the way they are ... we should be happy that we can buy something like a TBC device!

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Hey FulciLives,
    Where did you purchase the AVT-8710?
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  28. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shakabrah
    Hey FulciLives,
    Where did you purchase the AVT-8710?
    Cheapest price I've seen as of late is at the BH PHoto Video website.

    They have it for $189.95 plus shipping charges.

    They are located in the USA ... not sure if they ship outside of the USA.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    When you are at the BH PHoto Video website just type "AVT-8710" into the search box.
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    Originally Posted by johnmoon
    My dr-4 now does not want to load a DVD when it is turned on
    Well I returned my second DR 4 back to SEARS today. The second one did not record chapters too but also after finalizing a disk it would not eject it. I kept seeing the unloading icon. I powered down twice but still it would not eject the disk. Since purchasing the DR 4 I only used Maxell media. I decided to let it run and see how long it takes for the disk to spit out. I'd say it was around 10 minutes before the disk came out. After that the DR 4 went back into the box and back to SEARS. The scary part is that SEARS is going to resell it at clearance. The saleslwomen did not care about the problems I told her even though that was my second machine. I am now done with Toshiba dvd recorders. Great picture but too much hassles. I've decided to order the Pioneer DVR 310 from Newegg. Shipping to Hawaii is ridiculous. However I dont have any other choice because no one here carries that model. Oh well wish me luck.
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  30. Member johnmoon's Avatar
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    Well my DR-4 Went back to Toshiba for the third time this morning
    They had me contact then when I sent it off so they could contact TOPS (Toshiba Depot Service).
    They said they would make sure I had no more problems
    I guess I will probably try a Panasonic or Pioneer when I want to spend the cash.
    I don't know that this machine will ever work correctly. Maybe If I annoy them enough,
    they will send me a new DR-5 ?
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