Capturing widescreen

[thecoalman]

I think what the trouble is that he's not getting over the import problem.... Have you looked to see if Premeire has the option to turn the conversion off when you import?

I can tell you how my editor works... I can import anything into the timeline, AVI, MPEG, WMV..... different resolutions, different bitrates etc. From there it only converts the imported video to whatever I have set the project settings too if I want to preview it or any portion of it.

I set the the project settings to whatever the source is therefore only the edits have to be reencoded for preview... I can even turn that off and see a pseudo preview where it will play but edits such as transitions won't be viewable.

Once I'm done editing it's simply a matter of exporting the video to whatever I want. One coversion from source to final product. If the source has the same properties as my final product there is no conversion except the edits. That is the reason I suggested editing in MPEG since you would only have to reencode the edited parts greatly reducing encoding time. But if the encoders for the devices don't accept MPEG then you would have to export to whatever they accept.

Of course you may not be able to do it that way at all if premeire doesn't have those features. Personally I think that is how all editors should work, it makes for a very easy and fast workflow.

[clothesburner626]

clothesburner626,
What's your intended final output device?

At 1st, I thought you were wanting to make a compilation/edited DVD, hence the suggestions in that direction.

Now, it sounds like you're wanting to go with iPod/PSP or other 3G type device, which makes use of MPEG4 variants and the transfer steps WOULD NOT be approached the same way at all!

A note of clarification here would better direct your helpers...


Scott

I have to cut several DVDs into individual scenes - add watermark - convert individual scenes into three portable formats: iPod, PSP, WMV.

My editor of choice is Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 - I can move fast with this software!!!

Thus far, I've been able to rip the DVD to a single VOB file using DVD Decrypter and load the video into Virtual Dub >> haven't been able to figure how to get the video AND audio into Virtual Dub but I'm working on it. (Having trouble writing the script.)

Once I got both into Virtual Dub I was going to export as uncompressed or lossless compressed (Huffy) which I'm assuming is a high quality, editable AVI codec >> chop into scenes in Premiere >> add watermark >> export to individual AVIs >> convert to three portable formats above.

I also want to try every other suggestion I've been given in this thread, namely ripping as Mpeg and editing the Mpeg footage in Premiere. But as I've mentioned, you need a plugin to be able to do this and all the ones I've been able to find cost $.

Thank you guys for hanging in there with me.

[clothesburner626]

I think what the trouble is that he's not getting over the import problem.... Have you looked to see if Premeire has the option to turn the conversion off when you import?

I can tell you how my editor works... I can import anything into the timeline, AVI, MPEG, WMV..... different resolutions, different bitrates etc. From there it only converts the imported video to whatever I have set the project settings too if I want to preview it or any portion of it.

I set the the project settings to whatever the source is therefore only the edits have to be reencoded for preview... I can even turn that off and see a pseudo preview where it will play but edits such as transitions won't be viewable.

Once I'm done editing it's simply a matter of exporting the video to whatever I want. One coversion from source to final product. If the source has the same properties as my final product there is no conversion except the edits. That is the reason I suggested editing in MPEG since you would only have to reencode the edited parts greatly reducing encoding time. But if the encoders for the devices don't accept MPEG then you would have to export to whatever they accept.

Of course you may not be able to do it that way at all if premeire doesn't have those features. Personally I think that is how all editors should work, it makes for a very easy and fast workflow.

I've not been able to check that feature yet... most of my time has gone to getting familiar with DVD Decrypter and avisynth.... I finally found a guide that showed me how to get a single VOB file from a DVD... having a hard time writing a script that opens both the video AND audio into Virtual Dub... it seems once I get it into Virtual Dub, I can export it as whatever format I want.... but rest assured, I've heard you loud and clear, I've just not gotten to performing those steps yet. Thanks for all of your input!!!

[clothesburner626]

Here's the script that gets the video into VirtualDub:

LoadPlugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\Misc\dgmpgdec146\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("NewOrleans.d2v")

Having a hard time writing the script that will get the audio AND video into VirtualDub.

The guide I have says do the following:

LoadPlugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\Misc\dgmpgdec146\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("NewOrleans.d2v")
audio=AC3Source("NewOrleans.ac3")
AudioDub(video,audio)

But with it written this way, VirtualDub gives me the error message:

Avisynth open failure:
Script error: there is no function named "AC3Source"
(E:NewOrleans\NewOrleans.avs, line3)

Can anyone help correct this problem?

[Radixmind]

i'v been reading this thread for a while and i thought i'd add my tuppence worth.

clothesburner626, you say you need to get some individual scenes from DVD's, add watermarks, and then process them into a number of different 'portable' formats - correct?

how long are these scenes? are we talking about, say, ten different files, no more than a couple of minutes each? or more?

thing is, if all he's doing is grabbiing short scenes from a DVD, wouldnt he be just as well to wire his DVD player thru a camcorder and capture the relevant scenes only thru a firewire? does he need to demux a whole movie if he only wants five minutes of it?

the reason i say this is - he says he wants to put watermarks on the video. now, i dont know much about watermarking video, i'll admit, but surely any alteration to the image content (colour correction, fades etc) would require the thing to be reprocessed anyway? so you've already lost the main advantage of sticking with Mpeg-2 right there.

i myself have done this workflow many times with considerable success, where all i want is a few minutes of a DVD. wire my dvd player to my video camera (i use an old 709 for macrovision removal) and play through the firewire, capturing directly as DV in Premere pro. this makes working with the file pretty easy. capturing as DV means there's no quality loss, as you're going up, not down, scale.

unless you require really long duration clips, say 20 minutes or more, i dont know why you don't do this.

[Radixmind]

sorry, i may not have fully understood the problem there. But it seems to me that making a few selective choices before going to the computer might actually help here.

also, like i said, i dont really understand the in's and outs of 'watermarking' a video. if there's a way to put a watermark over an entire mpeg duration without re-encoding it, i'd like to know. really.

[Cornucopia]

Ok, now we can get somewhere...

Here's what I'd do.

Rip ONLY the sections of the movie you want in DVD Decrypter (IFO mode, [Select your PGC, Deselect wrong chapters and cells, Stream processing ON--REPEAT for each clip]). You'll end up with files that you could call, say "A.m2v, A.ac3, B.m2v, B.ac3", etc.

Since they're SMALL and won't take up too much space (but you have enough anyway, right?), Open these up in VDubMod (which accepts m2v and ac3--NO SCRIPT NEEDED), selecting the AC3 stream that corresponds with the M2V. Output to Uncompressed or Losslessly-compressed AVI. You could even add the watermark as a filter here. And even fine-tune edit the clip if you are comfortable with the interface for that.

Then, you can open up Premiere if you need to (as it'll accept uncompressed or losslessly-compressed AVI, AND in those formats there won't be any more generational losses) and fine-tune edit what you need. Then you have all your Uncompr/LLCompr AVI watermarked clips and you just run them through the appropriate converters (WinMedia Encoder for WMV, your choice for the others--I don't use them so won't comment).

My point is, you can make much better use of Decrypter and you should use VDubMod instead of VDub (since it supports m2v and ac3). That'll streamline your workflow and give you a much better quality output...

VOB(on disc)-->M2V & AC3 (no conversion, just demux & copy)
M2V&AC3 -->Uncomp/LLCompr AVI (colorspace change, but decode only, no lossy re-encode)
UC/LLC AVI-->/edit/watermark/-->UC/LLC AVI (same format, no generational loss)
UC/LLC AVI-->WMV, PSP, iPod(mp4) (losses here, but unavoidable)

Scott

[jagabo]

You can also add watermarks with VirutualDubMod and logo/delogo filters.

[mpiper]

Just out of curiosity, why not just hop over to the "Tools" section of Videohelp and select the conversion "DVD to AVI"? You will find several programs that are automated, so you rip the DVD to hard drive (for speed), set up the conversion, start it, walk away and come back in a few hours with a ready-to-edit file for Premiere.

I tend to use AutoGK, which outputs to DivX, which Premiere can read and then you can edit. There are several options, but that is quickest

Another is to rip just the main movie, rename the extension from VOB to MPG, and load into Premiere, This works often, depending on what audio exists, but Premiere can be finicky. If you have multiple VOBs afte the main movie rip, just load them all and insert them into the timeline in order.

Mike

[clothesburner626]

Just out of curiosity, why not just hop over to the "Tools" section of Videohelp and select the conversion "DVD to AVI"? You will find several programs that are automated, so you rip the DVD to hard drive (for speed), set up the conversion, start it, walk away and come back in a few hours with a ready-to-edit file for Premiere.

I tend to use AutoGK, which outputs to DivX, which Premiere can read and then you can edit. There are several options, but that is quickest

Another is to rip just the main movie, rename the extension from VOB to MPG, and load into Premiere, This works often, depending on what audio exists, but Premiere can be finicky. If you have multiple VOBs afte the main movie rip, just load them all and insert them into the timeline in order.

Mike

Explain how to do this with AutoGK? Any loss of quality THAT MATTERS?

With the DVD inserted in the DVD-ROM, I double-clicked AutoGK >> input file >> DVD-ROM drive >> double-clicked the title >> Video_TS folder >> whole slew of files there. Which one do I chose to capture the entire movie as a single AVI? Is that possible?

[mpiper]

unfortunately, I tend to do things from "instinct" and need the program in front of me to give specific directions. Here goes from my basic memory.
The files VTS or TS are the "title sets" VTS01-01, VTS01-02, etc. are all part of one titleset. VTS01-01, VTS02-01 are different Titlesets.
The VTS with the biggest number of files is usiually the main movie. With that known, select the "IFO" file that is nambed the same as the VTS-**.VOB that is the main movie.

From there, AGK will pull the full movie and encode. I usually set it to 100% on the quality and there is not a noticible drop in quality.

[clothesburner626]

From there, AGK will pull the full movie and encode. I usually set it to 100% on the quality and there is not a noticible drop in quality.

That was my gut feel, too, but I read yesterday there was no reason to go above 80% quality..... may be fruitless post b/c I have absolutely no way to direct you to what I read yesterday.

[clothesburner626]

Rip ONLY the sections of the movie you want in DVD Decrypter (IFO mode, [Select your PGC, Deselect wrong chapters and cells, Stream processing ON--REPEAT for each clip]). You'll end up with files that you could call, say "A.m2v, A.ac3, B.m2v, B.ac3", etc.

I ripped to a single VOB file that plays the movie from beginning to end:

Step 1
Place the DVD you want to rip your video from into your DVD drive.

Step 2
Launch DVD Decrypter.

Step 3
Go to the Mode menu and select IFO I mode. This will give you access to two new tabs; Input & Stream Processing.

Step 4
Go to the Tools menu, select Settings, go to the IFO tab, then under Options, change File Splitting to None and press OK.

Step 5
Go to the main screen and click the Stream Processing tab. Enable it and only select the first video listed. Note that home encoded movies do not support subtitles of any kind and that your file can only have one type of audio.

Step 6
Before you begin ripping your video, note the destination of the video file. This is where your raw DVD rip is going to go and it will be rather large in size. If you want to change the directory that DVD Decrypter will output to, click on the Browse button and navigate to the folder you want and press OK.

Now that you know where the movie file is going, click on the Decrypt button to start decrypting the DVD to your hard drive.
Once it is done, close DVD Decrypter. Expect a 4 GB to 6 GB movie to take about 12 to 18 minutes.

Will this work for this step? I only ask b/c I want a single .avi file in the end.

[Cornucopia]

Sounds about right.

I would [expand] Step 5 to include:
Select your VTS/PGC main movie. Make sure it's right by the length of time noted in brackets. Then, Enable Stream processing. Click on the VideoStream (1st one), and then click [Demux]. Then, in turn, click on each desired audio stream along with the demux setting.

If you would prefer to cut up the file after ripping it, so be it. Your choice. "Pre-cutting" works well if you're hurting for available drive space. Post-rip cutting is desireable if you need to cut with reference to the original timecode.

Scott

[clothesburner626]

I have been at this since 9 o'clock this morning. It is now 5:25.

The first thing I wanted to try this morning was what Nelson37 suggested:

DVD Decrypter to VOB
VOB to .d2v and .ac3 using DGIndex
Import these into VirtualDub
Export Huffy lossless

However, I was only able to write a script that imported the .d2v file, could never figure out a way to export both.

At that point, I thought maybe I'd give avi.NET a try. Loaded the VOB file, waited three some hours, the resulting AVI file came out as follows:

Dimensions: 640x480 (need 720x480)
Bit Rate: 448kbps
Size: 1.98GB

...and wouldn't open.

Next, I installed VirtualDubMod in hopes of accomplishing what Cornucopia suggested but when I ripped with DVD Decrypter, things didn't turn out as he described.

Can we start all over? This sucks.

[jagabo]

VirtualDubMod:

File -> Open Video File... select VOB
Video -> Fast Recompress
Video -> Compression... select HuffYUV
File -> Save as AVI

That will give you an AVI file with HuffYUV compressed Video and the same format audio as your VOB, presumably AC3. Probably around 30 GB/hr.

[clothesburner626]

VirtualDubMod:

File -> Open Video File... select VOB
Video -> Fast Recompress
Video -> Compression... select HuffYUV
File -> Save as AVI

That will give you an AVI file with HuffYUV compressed Video and the same format audio as your VOB, presumably AC3. Probably around 30 GB/hr.

Jagabo, you are the f'in man!!! Anything any particular I need to know about adding watermarks in VirtualDubMod? Thanks to everyone but thanks especially to you!!!

[jagabo]

Anything any particular I need to know about adding watermarks in VirtualDubMod? Thanks to everyone but thanks especially to you!!!

To use any filtering (eg. add a watermark) you will need to switch to Video -> Full Processing Mode instead of Fast Recompress.

There are many watermark/logo filters for VirtualDub. Try using the built in Logo filter. Or this one:

http://neuron2.net/logo/logo.html

[Cornucopia]

clothesburner626,

I just did a rip of a short program, following all the steps that have been previously outlined and I got the m2v to open in VDubMod.

Next, you would have to go to [Streams | Streams List] and add the ac3 to the list. Then save as wav. Then, Save the avi as mentioned above. There are other ways to do this, but this is using a minimal # of tools...

Scott

[clothesburner626]

clothesburner626,

I just did a rip of a short program, following all the steps that have been previously outlined and I got the m2v to open in VDubMod.

Next, you would have to go to [Streams | Streams List] and add the ac3 to the list. Then save as wav. Then, Save the avi as mentioned above. There are other ways to do this, but this is using a minimal # of tools...

Scott

Does this result in a higher quality AVI than the way jagabo suggested?

VirtualDubMod:

File -> Open Video File... select VOB
Video -> Fast Recompress
Video -> Compression... select HuffYUV
File -> Save as AVI

That will give you an AVI file with HuffYUV compressed Video and the same format audio as your VOB, presumably AC3. Probably around 30 GB/hr.

This way is so easy. AVIs look great. I captured an 85 minute DVD in 55 minutes - that includes ripping with DVD Decrypter.

[Cornucopia]

Not higher or lower quality. Not faster or slower (although demuxing in Decrypter might be just a tiny bit slower). Just another way of doing it.

Glad to see you're on the right track...

Scott

[clothesburner626]

Not higher or lower quality. Not faster or slower (although demuxing in Decrypter might be just a tiny bit slower). Just another way of doing it.

Glad to see you're on the right track...

Scott

Right on, Scott. Thank you for all of your help!!!

[clothesburner626]

Ha ha! How funny!? All this time and Premiere only accepts AVI Type II and WAV - my VOB to AVI conversions are AVI TYPE I and AC3..... funny funny funny....

I could insert the AVI I into Premiere but then I'd have to wait to render it and that's just too long a process for something that's going to end up on an iPod.

Thanks again everyone for your help!!!

[Cornucopia]

Red Herring. The whole Type1/Type2 thing really refers to DV files(1--IVAS stream, 2--VIDS+AUDS streams). If you use a different codec (such as HuffYUV), it will be making a type 2 file anyway.

BTW, Premiere CAN understand Type1 DV-AVI files, if the codec supports passing certain parameters and uses a different fourCC. Only one I know of that does this is Canopus, but there could be others (Matrox?). I use the Premiere+Canopus combination often, so I know it works.

Scott

>>>>>>>
edit: see the link http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/dvavi.mspx about Type1/2 with DV.

[jagabo]

Nevermind.

[clothesburner626]

Red Herring. The whole Type1/Type2 thing really refers to DV files(1--IVAS stream, 2--VIDS+AUDS streams). If you use a different codec (such as HuffYUV), it will be making a type 2 file anyway.

BTW, Premiere CAN understand Type1 DV-AVI files, if the codec supports passing certain parameters and uses a different fourCC. Only one I know of that does this is Canopus, but there could be others (Matrox?). I use the Premiere+Canopus combination often, so I know it works.

Scott

>>>>>>>
edit: see the link http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/dvavi.mspx about Type1/2 with DV.

I used the jagabo method to create my AVIs....

VirtualDubMod:

File -> Open Video File... select VOB
Video -> Fast Recompress
Video -> Compression... select HuffYUV
File -> Save as AVI

....on one machine, Premiere crashed when I imported, and on the other, the red lines came up to let me know I needed to render the file.

Whether or not I needed to render b/c the AVI was type I (you say HuffyUV is type II) or the audio was AC3 (Premiere only accepts AIFF, AVI, MOV, MP3, WAV, WMA) all I know is rendering takes time and I have a deadline. Is there another way to convert VOB so that it falls right into Premiere without having to be rendered?

When I capture through my Canopus ADVC 100 (which, by the way, with the DVD player set to 16:9, I get full screen, thank you very much... that's what started this whole thread) it falls right into Premiere and I can have a finished product within no time.

[Cornucopia]

Reason I mentioned Decrypter w/Demux + VDubMod earlier, but didn't go into the whole AC3 stream adding thing was BECAUSE I meant for the Video and Audio to stay separate. That way, you get a HuffYUV avi (with no audio) and a WAV (exported from within the Streams dialog). If you want, you could mux them together with regular VDub, or you can just load them in separate into Premiere (works both ways). I just did a test and this process works fine.

Reason Premiere was rerendering is probably 'cuz it doesn't like the AC3 (HuffYUV would work just fine).
You can change the intended AR of the clip while in Premiere by changing how it's interpreted. 'Course, you don't really need to until you get to exporting/rendering for the final formats.

Scott

[clothesburner626]

Reason I mentioned Decrypter w/Demux + VDubMod earlier, but didn't go into the whole AC3 stream adding thing was BECAUSE I meant for the Video and Audio to stay separate. That way, you get a HuffYUV avi (with no audio) and a WAV (exported from within the Streams dialog). If you want, you could mux them together with regular VDub, or you can just load them in separate into Premiere (works both ways). I just did a test and this process works fine.

Reason Premiere was rerendering is probably 'cuz it doesn't like the AC3 (HuffYUV would work just fine).
You can change the intended AR of the clip while in Premiere by changing how it's interpreted. 'Course, you don't really need to until you get to exporting/rendering for the final formats.

Scott

Actually, it's the vid file. I unlinked the audio and vid, cut the vid and the red bars (which means the file needs to be rendered) went away.

When I do the opposite: unlink and cut the audio, the red bars remain.

I compared the properties of a file I captured using the Canopus ADVC 100 and the HuffyUV file.

Pixel depth of the file I captured is 32.

Pixel depth of the HuffyUV file is 24.

Data Rate/Sec of the file I captured is above 3.4 MB.

Data Rate/Sec of the HuffyUV is right at 1.7 MB.

Sample Size of the one I captured is a little above 117KB and highlighted blue.

Sample Size of the HuffyUV is right at 164KB and red.

Everything else is the same.

I can render the HuffyUV file but I just don't have that kind of time. I have "more than a handful" of DVDs to convert and starting to eyeball my original method: DVD player connected to Canopus ADVC via S-video cables captured as AVI Type II and fall right into Premiere without having to render or wait.... don't look as good as HuffyUV but, man, don't make me feel like a moron either.... why can't I get this?

[jagabo]

Premiere is telling you it doesn't have to reencode the DV AVI because you've told it you're making another DV AVI. If your end product is iPod video you will have to reencode to MPEG4, or H.264 whether you start with DV or HuffYUV.

If you go back to capturing the DVD player's output with the ADVC 100 you will have the additional problem of deinterlacing or IVTC'ing the video.

You should forget about Premiere and use a program that specializes in iPod video.

[Cornucopia]

Look, I still think you're not seeing the forest through the trees and that you could easily use Premiere smoothly and quickly for this kind of setup.
One option to change-possibly being the use of a DV codec instead of HuffYUV; a little loss, but might improve render times dramatically.

However, you may want to go back to a tried and true method (and experiment on short clips in your spare time to find a better method later on).

If so, try this...

Set your DVD player video AR output to (16:9 TV). This will show as 16:9 on a 16:9 monitor, but show as squished (tall & skinny) on a 4:3 monitor.

Capture using your setup. Normally, a DV camera would add a flag that tells your edit software that the captured file is 16:9 as opposed to 4:3. In this instance, since you aren't using a camera, there's no way to set this flag.
No matter. All you do is "pretend" it's 4:3, up until you get to the point of of exporting from Premiere. Then, if you're making an intermediate clip file, you change the AR options to something like "DV NTSC/16:9 Widescreen" ("Custom" | Video settings | Pixel size). If you are exporting directly to your destination formats (iPod, PSP,etc.), there should be an appropriate place in the corresponding export dialog box(es). This will vary depending on your application of choice.

HTH,
Scott