Inverted MoBo Cases - Anyone Use or Like them?

[Doramius]

I usually buy Lian-Li Cases now. I have been noticing some cases invert the motherboards in the case, but this is the first I've seen Lian-Li do it. Anyone know the advantages of this? All my ports would be upside-down from what I am used to. Not really much of a problem, but maybe a little confusion.
I did notice that the PSU is still on top where the rear case fan is on the bottom, so I guess there's a better flow of air?

[ROF]

I've seen these as well. I've actually worked with them. One thing to note is that you will probably need to buy an extension for the power supply 20/24pin cabling because the power connector on the motherboard will now be at the bottom of the case on most motherboards.

[steveryan]

I have the Aerocool Baydream/Masstige case that is inverted. It's an excellent case and the window is on the right, perfect

[redwudz]

One of the newer motherboard designs is placing the CPU in the center front of the motherboard to take more advantage of the cooling air coming from the front of the case and flowing through to the back. The inverted cases may be a method of doing the same thing with present MBs. At least, in theory, it should improve the airflow.

I like the idea of having the ports at the bottom of the case as it keeps the port cables from hanging out the back as much.

[Doramius]

I like the idea of having the ports at the bottom of the case as it keeps the port cables from hanging out the back as much.

I agree with you there. Having them out the middle like that would put a bit of stress on the cables. One of my PCs has a video card with some odd cabling that's bulky and heavy (ALL IN WONDER). I have an assembly to help alleviate the weight. I like the idea of the Heatsink & fan facing up to expell heat, though. I often wish the videocard was made on the bottom of the MoBo as I Could do more for space & cooling that way. This design opens up some nice possibilities, but it has drawbacks as well. I might get one just to check it out though.

[redwudz]

A couple of problems I have noticed on motherboards, mostly with plug-in cards and the CPU cooler:

Many of the CPU coolers have the exhausts to the sides. On some of my MBs it blows directly against the RAM modules, which don't need that type of 'cooling'.

Some video cards have the heat sink on the bottom side of the card. It would seem more efficient for cooling to have the heat sink on the top.

I try to use a front intake fan to blow over the hard drives and a rear exhaust fan (Or 2) to pull the air out the back. If you can find a case with a intake air filter that you can clean without taking the case apart, that would be good.

I've seen some cases that have a intake fan blowing onto the CPU cooler. This works well in theory, but most don't use a air filter, so all the dust and gunge in the air blows directly into the cooler, eventually clogging it.

Switching to round IDE cables helps the airflow considerably, SATA IDE cables are even better.

All this gets worse when you have a Micro ATX case with less room, or some of the horizontal desktop cases. Throw in a hot running CPU, some hot IDE drives, Northbridge chip, a hot video card, hot PS and you can heat the room. Add enough fans to keep it all cool and you may need to add a pair of earplugs.

I'm exaggerating, of course. But good airflow and clean air does help a PC last longer.

[Doramius]

I don't think you're exaggerating too much. One of my crap PCs has the cover taken off, round cable, plus a 32" fan on either side of the tower blowing across. It's pretty loud, but cools pretty well. If I decide to play Warcraft 3, I have another 9" turbo fan to turn on that blows across the VGA card & processor. It's only a 2.2Ghz and it's the next PC to get revamped. Thus the reason for getting a new case.

I'm looking at this case to go with a MoBo with PCI Express slots for video and whatnot.

[otpw1]

plus a 32" fan on .

Thats taller than my desk!

[Doramius]

It's big, and it's cheap at Walmart. I think I got them for $9.99ea. I have one in the bedroom during the summer. Don't even need a mounting kit. Well.....I do have some string holding them at the tower because they are pretty strong and used to tip themselves over when set to HI.

I'm also looking to go liquid cooled on the new system. I got my eye set on waterblocks for VGA, CPU, RAM, & HDDs.

Along with this case, this is what I got my eye on. I normally like intel, but might venture with AMD on this one. I want a 3.2Ghz or equivilent CPU.

Here's a Mobo I'm looking at, but I have some other ideas as well.
'EVGA 133-K8-NF41 nForce4 SSI' for AMD

I'm looking to go with an ATI ALL-IN-WONDER for PCI Express (with VIVO & tuner).

Also Powering the system with a 24pin 550W PSU. Haven't decided on a specific one, though.

[rallynavvie]

In the case you posted pictures of the inverted board won't make much of a difference at all. The advantage to the inverted design was to compartmentalize components and isolate most of the heat away from the board. The best example of this is the Lian Li PC-V series chassis:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112074
If you look at the photos the slots for the hard drives and the power supply are sectioned off at the bottom of the case while the optical drives and motherboard occupy the upper portion of the case. Having these two zones of heat dissipation is really nice, especially when you're using variable speed fans to control temps. And having the video card HSF above the card isn't such a great thing, it collects dust like mad in that position. Having the HSF below the PCB almost eliminates dust collection entirely.

I had planned on using that Lian Li PC-V2000 my next desktop case. The one big downfall of that gorgeous case is that it has no protection from dust. All those holes in the front of the case pretty much allow any ambient dust easy access to the internals. I didn't think my Antec P160s filter would keep much out but it actually does a wonderful job. Any filtration is better than nothing, and for a $250 case I'd want some filtration. But look at the positives to that case! It's all aluminum with steel frame, the PSU is mounted up on a riser that acts as a heatsink, and has slots for 12 hard drives in the cage. The hard drive space was the big seller for me since I have a ridiculous amount of hard drives, but now I've decided to just go the storage array route.

[rallynavvie]

Oh, PSUs are VERY important. If you're looking to a big 500W+ model get an Antec TruePowerII or get the master of ATX power supplies from PC Power & Cooling, the Turbo 530.

[redwudz]

Doramius, I don't know if you are a AMD user, but the AMD 64s run fairly cool. Mine is usually in the range of 25-28C. I don't know much about the Intel processors, but they probably have one that does similar.

With the CPU heat down, you can go to a lower speed CPU heatsink fan to lower some of the noise. Mine runs at about 1500rpm most of the time. The CPU temp is usually 3C cooler than the motherboard temps, so no cooling problems.

SATA drives, in my experience, run cooler than PATA drives and that helps.

A case with 12CM case fans also lower noise. And there are lots of power supplies that are low noise.

The only other two main heat sources in my PC is the Northbridge chip and the video card. Check the noise levels on the Northbridge or equivalent heatsink fan when looking at MBs.

The video card fan can be noisy also. I bought one with no fan because I thought it would be quiet and the sucker was hot enough to burn my fingers. I mounted a 8CM PCI slot fan under it and now it's fine.

You don't need 'leafblower' noise levels with the right components and a good case with decent airflow. A medium tower case is another option if you have the space for one. They have enough internal space that the airflow is a lot easier to manage.

Finally, if you do a Google search for 'Quiet PC', you will find lots of sites that have good ideas.

[Doramius]

That's some good advice from both of you. I'm definitely taking all of that into consideration. Another concern I had was I wanted to watercool this system, though I know there will be a few fans anyway. Watercooling an inverted MoBo has me worried. I mean I'm sure I can turn the blocks around, and there shouldn't be a problem anyway. I will be having filter pads at all the vents to keep the dust to a minimum, but with fewer fans, it'll be much easier to control.

This is just a chance for me to take a step from above average PC builder to a little more advanced level. Basically stepping away from my more conservative building styles.

Again, I've never used inverted MoBo Cases. Never went this extreme into liquid cooling a system. I usually do not work with AMD CPU systems and MoBos. Never used PCI Express Video cards before. I do use SATA HDDs though as I like the fact that the cabling is smaller to let more airflow through the case. I'm also using UV cables, hoses, feet, & dyes and will probably change out the window on the case for a UV sensitive window. And getting a Cold cathode light to compliment it. This is going to be a Custom high-profile "TOY". I will probably take about 6 months altogether building it because I probably won't buy everything all at once (I'm not made of money). I am planning on putting the $$$ into this machine though.

[ROF]

I will probably take about 6 months altogether building it because I probably won't buy everything all at once (I'm not made of money). I am planning on putting the $$$ into this machine though.

If you plan to piecemeal your build keep in mind return times for DOA items. I've known people who have done as your planning to buy a part here and there until they have enough ca$h for the majors and then when they go ahead and begin construction they realize that shiny 600W power supply they paid $100+ for is non-functional and way beyond return time.

My suggestion is to test the various components as you buy them. Plug in that nice brand new cavernous hard drive and format it(time saver). Unplug your current power supply and plug that new dual fan cobalt blue LED power supply into your current setup and see if it powers up and maintains proper voltages. Never buy a CPU without a plan to test it or better yet make the motherboard and CPU your final purchase. To make returns easier always make sure to purchase a fan+heatsink combo with any CPU purchase. Even if you plan to use one you already have or can get a better price someplace else on the one you want, buying a cooling system is the best way to insure a hassle free replacement if necessary for a dead core.

I've seen and heard too many horror stories about those who wanted a killer system but couldn't afford it all at once and realized that once they got it complete there was one or more parts that had failed to live up to it's potential.

[Doramius]

100% AGREED. I build a lot of systems for people and I have built quite a few of my own systems already. I have some testing equipment specifically to check PSUs and a few other pieces of equipment. Every so often I get something that doesn't work right. I am planning on buing the CPU, HS+FAN, & Video card all at the same time. There's nothing worse than putting an expensive system together only to find out, some s**tty PSU made it past the QA inspection and has half the 12V lines not working properly. (yeah I had that happen once, but I caught it by testing it)

My personal suggestion (from experience) is buy the PSU first. Test it. Get a HDD and test it on another machine as a slave or even a master, then optical Drive & Floppy (If you still use floppys) and test them completely on another machine, including FULL Read & Write capabilities. The Case is the Last thing I purchase (surprisingly) I have other generic cases I use to test things in. It also gives me an idea how I want to run my wiring (and hosing) through the system so it looks neat.

This one I'm doing liquid cooled, so this is about the time I'd get the Water cooling system and check it's flow and see how well it works on another system.

Normally, I would get the video card before the next set of items, but this is a different situation. I'll get the MoBo, CPU, CPU cooler (Normally HS+FAN), & RAM in one pop. On this one I'll have to factor in the Video card to purchase at the same time, because I don't have another system with a slot for PCI Express.

[ROF]

On this one I'll have to factor in the Video card to purchase at the same time, because I don't have another system with a slot for PCI Express.

Rather than buying some cheapo PCI Express Graphics card I usually help people get a cheapo yet reliable PCI video card until they can save up for a good quality PCI Express card. Most quality boards come with several PCI slots and since most OnBoard sound and LAN on these boards is better than dedicated PCI cards that usually leaves a few slots available for an inexpensive temporary card. My suggestion for cheapo PCI cards would a Radeon 9200 or a GeForce 5500 for $50. Both in most card manufacturers will support your DVI interface and lite gaming habits. However if you're like me you probably have a few video cards collecting dust anyways. Better to spend $$ later on a good card rather than buy one now and have to justify buying another one later.

[Doramius]

I have a bunch of other towers altogether, so I wouldn't be suffering while this system isn't running. I also fancy ATI All-in-Wonder cards. I'm currently looking at the X1800 or X1900 256MB PCI Express cards.

[ROF]

I have a bunch of other towers altogether, so I wouldn't be suffering while this system isn't running. I also fancy ATI All-in-Wonder cards. I'm currently looking at the X1800 or X1900 256MB PCI Express cards.

I haven't worked with the x1800 but I've worked with two x1900. Both 512MB, both crossfire, one from Sapphire and the other a powercolor. While they were both similiar in all respect the powercolor was simply the better of the two also they both claim to have HDTV out neither DVI will support HDCP even at the >$500 price tags. I'd wait before spending that amount of money until HDCP or any other similiar specifications is implemented fully into the card.

[Doramius]

I'm not worried. I'm getting it for $325. I have a friend in the business, which is another reason why I usually get only ATI cards, and ALL-IN-WONDERS for that matter. I currently have 5 PCs and they all have AIW cards in them.

If I get a crappy one, I just send it back and get a new one free.