Canopus Procoder 2 = not all its cracked up to be for me, help...

[qwik3r2]

I don't know what it is with this program but everytime i encode an AVI with it it comes out like crap, i have it on high quality which takes about 8 friggen hours anyway and all i get is a very hard to describe pixelation. Its not qute square pixels rather very prominant rectangles that look like it was sharpened too much or something, i should have taken a screen shot but if anyone has used this program can someone let me know what is going on? Thanks.

[ricardouk]

source size and resolution???

output size/resolution???

[Wile_E]

Use Convolution3D and AVIsynth. Convolution3D works wonders on old VHS tapes. I usually use the maximum setting. It smooths everything out without making stuff too blurry. It makes VHS to DVD look much better.

[Soltaris]

Wile_E has a good suggestion which really can help. Depending on the source I also like to add a little edge enhancement to make the image appear sharper after smoothing the broad surfaces with convolution3d. Conservative settings with MSharpen (http://neuron2.net/msharpen/msharpen.html) work quite well.

The best part is that ProCoder has direct support for importing your AVS file so everything works quite well together.

I'd recommend you use the trim feature in AVISynth. This allows you to work with a small sample of your video and test it against various processing options first. You'll be able compare an unfiltered sample output vs all the different filter combinations that you try.

[lordsmurf]

If you actually own Procoder (not a cracked version), it works plenty fine.

[bits]

Procoder should do the job just fine. DivX is slow for encoding and with your CPU, depending on the settings and file size, 8 hours is about right.
Give more details if possible.

[noki]

I don't know what it is with this program but everytime i encode an AVI with it it comes out like crap, i have it on high quality which takes about 8 friggen hours anyway and all i get is a very hard to describe pixelation. Its not qute square pixels rather very prominant rectangles that look like it was sharpened too much or something, i should have taken a screen shot but if anyone has used this program can someone let me know what is going on? Thanks.

seems I heard this before of this version of the app. People that has complaint are going back to v1.5. seems okay.

[qwik3r2]

Alittle background, i presently going to school for graphic design, video and animation, my school has a shitload of programs, brand new cause they get a young kid to over see the department and he bought like 20,000 grand worth programs including suggestions from other students.

We are doing our own testing of encoders at the moment and i volunteered to try procoder 2 out. Here is the info for the avi that i have (from the program when i loaded it):

Video Frame Size: 656x272
FPS: 23.976
3ivx D4 Video decoder
Data rate: 1182kps

I am not quite sure what 656x272 is or the formula to figure it out but it looks like wide screen. So i chose 16:9 and i chose NTSC VOB under output. I chose 23fps with pulldown which is the only option, i figured if i made it 29fps than it may skip correct? Anyway the end result was basically a smooth playing dvd with a very odd quality, hard to describe, not pixelated but weird. And i chose high quality.

I think the problem perhaps lies in the fact that i have CBR instead of VBR chosen, video bit rate 6000.

Hope someone can help, i'll try some suggestions and hopefully i will be able to show a screenshot if the quality is the same. Thanks.

[qwik3r2]

Wile_E has a good suggestion which really can help. Depending on the source I also like to add a little edge enhancement to make the image appear sharper after smoothing the broad surfaces with convolution3d. Conservative settings with MSharpen (http://neuron2.net/msharpen/msharpen.html) work quite well.

The best part is that ProCoder has direct support for importing your AVS file so everything works quite well together.

I'd recommend you use the trim feature in AVISynth. This allows you to work with a small sample of your video and test it against various processing options first. You'll be able compare an unfiltered sample output vs all the different filter combinations that you try.

I am not too familiar with avisynth, i hear about it alot, i looked into it however i still don't quite understand what it is. Could you elaborate?

Procoder 2 has a trim feature but i am not quite sure if that will trim the original AVI or just encode a portion that i chose?

[BJ_M]

the problem is that you are using a really not good highly compressed source file then resizing it from an odd size ..

the resize in procoder is not as good as what you can do in avisynth also ..

[qwik3r2]

the problem is that you are using a really not good highly compressed source file then resizing it from an odd size ..

the resize in procoder is not as good as what you can do in avisynth also ..

So if i resize with avisynth can i still use procoder or does avisynth not work with procoder? I am confused, presently reading more about avisynth.

[guns1inger]

FitCD to produce a resize avisynth script for loading into ProCoder.

That said, this is a not a valid test of any encoders ability to produce quality output. As BJ_M pointed out, you are using a low quality source (I know, it looks fine on your PC - trust me, it is overcompressed and badly damaged, regardless of how it looks). If you are testing encoders for real work, use good quality source. Otherwise you are wasting your time.

[shiet]

If you actually own Procoder (not a cracked version), it works plenty fine.

someone has a dirty smurf up their ass

[qwik3r2]

I see alot of posts where people are insinuating that programs are cracked or hacked and not owned, it does happen alot, but what can ya do. I suppose if you paid 500 for the program and someone is like "ill go download it and brb" lol most of the time u know its bullshit. Anyway i paid 17,000 for the program, so i beat ya. Actually i paid 17k for the course, but same difference.

[qwik3r2]

FitCD to produce a resize avisynth script for loading into ProCoder.

That said, this is a not a valid test of any encoders ability to produce quality output. As BJ_M pointed out, you are using a low quality source (I know, it looks fine on your PC - trust me, it is overcompressed and badly damaged, regardless of how it looks). If you are testing encoders for real work, use good quality source. Otherwise you are wasting your time.

I understand that the quality of the end result will not be perfect, however i do remember one of the stipulations of the assignment was to use AVI's or MPGS that we already had, or choose from some that the school had, none of which were all great quality, alot were movie trailers downloaded etc.

Besides being for school, i of course hope to find myself an encoder that I will be set with rather than jumping around. I would like to see as an experiement what a seemingly not so good input source would achieve.

I downloaded fitcd and avisynth, i inputed the source and chose 720x480 for the destination and ticked anamorphic and saved the avisynth script.

I am gonig to cut a portion of this avi out, like 10 minutes so i don't have to wait 8 hours to see if messing with the settings and the avisynth script did anything.

[guns1inger]

Look at the script produced by FitCD. That last line will be #trim(nnnn,nnnn) where nnnn referes to start and end frame numbers. Remove the # (comment symbol in avisynth) and set the end number of the trim statement to 5000 and you will be encoding just the first 5000 frames.

[BJ_M]

in procoder - you can also set edit points on what you want to encode -- you can also just encode a few minutes only for testing

[qwik3r2]

Well i did a quick test encode and it is better, the problem i initially stated is gone now that i switch to VBR 2pass however now i have some jittering around the edges of people's faces, what the hell is this? LOL, suggestions?

[guns1inger]

You need to remember that most of the time, encoding AVI files up to full D1 mpeg2 involves resizing the avi up in resolution. This has the tendency to exaggerate and enhance any and all flaws int he source material. Flaws that aren't immediately obvious when watching the source are suddenly glaring and offensive after encoding. Sometimes you have use filters in avisynth to reduce the imapct of these flaws. Sometimes there isn't much you can do about it at all. Trial and error is your best bet.

[qwik3r2]

So keeping it at 23fps vs 25fps won't matter in quality? Its basically because i'm going from one format to 720x480 16:9? As i said the quality looks better but i get some jitters around edges people, its odd, i'm sure you've seen it b4. What type of filters can i use with avisynth?

[guns1inger]

blockbuster is pretty good at cleaning up compression artifacts in the source. Apply it before the resize.

Convolution3d is also very good for noise reduction.

Most filters are written to address specific problems though, so if you have multiple issues you may need multiple filters.

Changing framerates may produce problems, depending on how you go about it. If you increase the framerate from 23.976 to 25fps, you may suffer audio sync problems unless you correct the timing to compensate. Some methods create the 'missing' frame in each second of footage, resulting in jerkiness, especially in panning and motion scenes.

[qwik3r2]

hrm, thanks thus far for all of your help, you've been quite informative. Ok seeing as i have already converted it using high quality with 2pass VBR on 6000 bit rate, resized with avisynth and there is still some jittering what else would your suggestions be? For some reason i don't think this is a filter problem, i think it just may be the encoding settings. I guess i'll try highest quality and see if it makes a difference. Its taking 40 minutes to convert a 6 minute avi to 29fps from 23, it'll take 20+ hours at that rate to do the entire avi.

[greymalkin]

man..those technical schools can really take a bite out of you. I spent 10k on one many years ago thinking I could skip the whole 4 year college thing :P.
For 17k they should also give you lifetime software upgrades and support with all of your video encodes

[qwik3r2]

man..those technical schools can really take a bite out of you. I spent 10k on one many years ago thinking I could skip the whole 4 year college thing :P.
For 17k they should also give you lifetime software upgrades and support with all of your video encodes

Which school did you attend? I too didn't want to go the 4 year route and thought this would be a good way out, so far i am not overly impressed, i am hoping the video, 3d and web development portions will be more informative than the photoshop course since i'm flying through that. Anyway they do offer lifetime job placement, aswell as if i want to go back to be retrained or take a course over again i can do that. They do offer support, but why get one guy's opinion when i can get an entire forums.

[qwik3r2]

edit: found settings in CCE me = stupid

[adam]

qwik3r2: after loading the source in CCE double click on that line that is added. This opens up all of the settings and there are tons, probably more than Procoder. If you want to encode to 16:9 than you have to enable the 16:9 option.

[qwik3r2]

I think i like CCE better than procoder for this test, its faster and seems to have more user friendly options. The only thing i don't get is when i chose multipass in CCE and put VBR passes to 2 it still did 3 passes. What is the deal with that? Is it cause of the pulldown? Also what is the diff between 2-3 and 3-2 pulldown?

[guns1inger]

CCE doesn an analysis pass first, then the encoding and distribution passes. Basically, whatever number of pasess you specify, add one.

Pulldown - http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html

[qwik3r2]

read that pulldown info, however it still confuses me as to which one to choose heh.

[guns1inger]

I use 2:3 when encoding with CCE and have had no problems.