VHS to DVD workflow

[Barktech]

I am bidding on a large scale project to convert "123" VHS tapes to DVD. This is to be done a one-to-one basis and each DVD would have a simple chapter menu system. The client also wants the chapters to be saved on a separate DVD or CD as MPEG1 MUXED files.

I am soliciting help for suggestions on the most efficient workflow. I own FCP 5.0 and MPEG2 WORKS 4. Time is of the essence so I suspect hardware encoding of the VHS to MPEG 2 and 1 is the best way.

I see the workflow as VHS to MPEG2 using ADS instant DVD or other encoder and then to DVD. The chapter markers are set in an editor such as Capty. The problem is the MPEG1 files. Do I have to recapture the whole lot? I also thought of DV to FCP and re-encode to MPEG1 and 2 with the Lacie Fastcoder. I looked at the MediaPress cards but do not see the workflow solution here.

Given the large number of tapes, does anyone have suggestions on how to speed up or automate the workflow? Maybe droplets, compressor or applescript. I would like burning and rendering to be done at night in a batch scenario. I am willing to spend some money.

Hardware available: Quicksilver Dual 1gb, Powermac G5 Dual 2.7 gHz., Imac DV400

Thanks for your input.

[terryj]

In your case here is what I would do:

For the VHS:

first buy a Canopus ADVC-300. Why the 300 and not the -110?
Becasue with 123 tapes of "varying quality", you'll need
the 300's built in TimeBase Corrector, to insure accurate
input and zero transfer problems.

Second, hook the ADVC-300 to the Quicksilver Dual1,
and ( hopefully already) 2 large FW Hard Drives
of 300GB or more ( 1hour equals 13Gb, so if 123 vhs
tapes are all an hour long, you will need 123 x 13gb=
1.6TB of storage!) to encode the tapes. If money
is not an option, then you might consider
a Lacie Big Disc 1.2TB model. We have one at work
(cost $975) and it works great for transferring video.

Hook the VCR ( at least a quality 4 head with 19Micron heads)
into the ADVC-300, hook it into the QS, hook up the
one of the external HD, and with FCP installed, do a capture
of each tape. Perform minor edits, and then export each
capture to Quicktime back to the FW drive.

Once the data is on, you will need the G5 to do the crunching
to Mpeg-2, since its the fastest out of the bunch.
Of course, you can batch all your conversions overnight
using Compressor, just hookup the FW drive to the G5,
mount, and then create your batch list.

While this is going, you put on the second FW ext HD
to the QS, and repeat capturing the next batch of tapes.

when the first batch is compressed, switch HDs and go
again, or get a set of DVDs "mastered" (burned off),
then start the next round.

For MPEG-1:
Once you are done cutting and setting the marks for the
chapter points, you will need to export each chapter
as a QT file, from FCP, and then use something like
QT PRO or MPEGStreamclip to make your MPEG-1 files.
As far as batch encoding them to MPEG-1....hmmmm....

It really is a shame he ( the client) has to have EACH
chapter saved as an individual MPEG-1 file...
If all he need was the DVDs, you could just go out and
buy a couple of the smae model of VHS to DVD recorders,
and just do it that way and be done!!

[pianoman719]

Terry's suggestions sound great. I'm not a pro, just curious if there are other ways to do this that don't involve compressing to DV then recompressing to MPEG. For example:

- VHS VCR with S-video output for a clean signal path.

- To time base corrector such as TV One AVT-8710 (optional, but may be needed if VHS tapes are old, are not recorded at SP speed, or have Macrovision copy protection).

- To standalone DVR for basic DVD encoding/temporary storage on DVD-RAM disks.

- Still in realtime, passthrough from DVR hooked up to Elgato EyeTV 200 connected to Mac via firewire for simultaneous MPEG-1 encoding.

Would this work? If so, one advantage would be better video quality because you're not compressing twice. You'd be getting simultaneous realtime encodes of both the DVD footage and the MPEG-1 footage from just one playing of the VHS tape. You would also need less drive space if you keep everything first generation MPEG.

Other suggestions for this method:

- The Pixela suite of Mac products may be useful. This includes:

- Pixe VRF Browser to pull video off DVD-RAM (you could also use Toast 7 for this).

- Capty MPEG Edit EX to clean up the encoded MPEGs, and to cut long MPEG-1 files into chapter-length clips. (MPEG Streamclip is a freeware alternative.)

- Capty DVD/VCD 2 to author the disks, putting chapters and menus where you want them.

Other Issues

- This method assumes that the standalone DVR can output a clean passthrough signal while recording, with no overlays that say "recording" or somesuch. If not, you might need a distribution amp to send the output from the time base corrector to the DVR and the EyeTV in parallel rather than in series.

- I mention the EyeTV 200 because it seems to rate higher in customer satisfaction than the ADS Instant DVD for Mac. But it's a bit pricey.

- If this pipeline works, then while one Mac is busy capturing from the EyeTV, the other Mac could be used to pull video off a DVD-RAM, edit it, and author a DVD.

I haven't tested this method, so please regard it with due skepticism. If what I've designed sounds too much like a Rube Goldberg machine, just shoot me.

-Pianoman

[cbkilner]

nevermind - didn't read prior posts carefully enough...

[terryj]

Terry's suggestions sound great. I'm not a pro, just curious if there are other ways to do this that don't involve compressing to DV then recompressing to MPEG. For example:

-Pianoman

Piano,
good alternate suggestions.

But don't forget...even DV streams going in through FW
have minimal compression...they aren't "RAW", as no
computer could handle a true "RAW" digital signal...
especially at more than 36Megabits/1Gb every 4 minutes)
further reading

Still, I like your suggestion about the passthrough option using the DV
Recorder...hadn't thought of that, and yes watermarking might be
a problem...perhaps Frobozz could test that out for us..?

But either way, to the OP, this looks like this is going to be
an expensive bid...good luck!

[Barktech]

Thank you to everyone for your replies. I am writing the quote today and your input has been invaluable. My first inclination was to go with the DV workflow. I know it well and it will produce results. But it is hard to get around the fact that it requires two encode sessions, one for DV and a second transcode to MPEG2 and MPEG1. Given 123 tapes at 2 hrs. per tape this workflow realizes 246 extra hours of time.

The second workflow uses a direct MPEG2 and 1 encode with a transfer from DVD RAM to the computer of the MPEG2 files. The issue of old tapes and genlock is real in this scenario. My research on the DVD recorder forum indicates that JVC have the best encode quality. I selected a JVC SR-MV50US as the transfer device. It offers a high quality VCR with controls to accommodate old tapes, and it has DVD-R and RAM capabilities. It also offers DV connection to my Final Cut Pro NLE, although I am uncertain how that will play out. It does support pass-thru to S-Video of the actual signal the DVD-RAM has recorded, which gives me the benefit of the JVC encoder.

The pass-thru signal then goes to the Elgato EyeTV200 where it is encoded to MPEG-1. CaptyDV looks great to add the chapter markers to the MPEG2, which I will read into DVD Studio Pro and burn. The Pixela web site states that it does not support MPEG1 files for editing. I downloaded and tried MEPG Streamclip for sectioning up the MPEG1 files and it works very well at this task.

The difference in time that this workflow produces will probably make me competitive against the PC guys. Thank you for your input.

[Frobozz]

I'm not sure if you decided to do two separate captures to get both and MPEG2 and MPEG1 file, but if you are looking for an easy way to quickly extract the individual chapters from the authored video DVD I recommend getting Miraizon's Cinematize. Cinematize will automatically write individual files for each chapter. You can choose if you want the file to be MPEG2 or DV or a QuickTime movie. You then have a quick source for either transcoding or encoding to MPEG 1.

[bigthor]

I'm looking for a standalone DVD burner compatible with Mac OSX (1.3.9). I want to transfer my large VHS/Beta tape collection onto DVDs. I would like a recorder with an internal drive of at least 60-80-120 GB. I've also looked at the Canopus ADVC-300 Analog / DV Converter, but it doesn’t have an internal HD.

My G4 Mac has an internal Pioneer 110D Superdrive that burns Double or Dual Layer DVDs. MacWorld recommends the Pioneer DVR-533/633H-S recorders, but users don’t like the noisy HD. Does anyone own the Pioneer and recommend it? Or recommend another standalone with an internal HD that does a great job? If you like your standalone and it writes to Double (or Dual Layer) discs, but it doesn’t communicate with Mac OSX, I would like to hear about it. Communicating with the Mac is my lowest priority. Highest priorities: quality of conversion, an internal HD, and Double Layer disc burning.

Thanks much.

[babgolis]

I know it's a little late, but I use this method in backing up some aging instructional videos of my own:

1 Set-top DVD recorder (works much better than my ads instant c**p dvd)
2 DVD2onex to extract individual episodes (not necessary for single episode discs)
3 MPEG Streamclip to merge & demux vob files to mpeg2 & aiff
4 DVD Studio Pro for chapters & menus
5 Enjoy

[bigthor]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Not sure what you mean by your ads instant DVD? Is that an analog/digital converter that connects directly to your computer?

What brand of set-top DVD recorder do you use? Does it write to double or dual layer discs? Thanks.

[babgolis]

The ADS Instant DVD is an inexpensive realtime analog->MPEG2 converter that attches to a Mac via USB. It works fine if the source video is clean. It has some weird muxing & demuxing issues that MPEG2Works is able to properly demux - forget about using anything else.

If the video source is poor, my experience is that it loses sync between the video and audio and there is SERIOUS video artifacting that the poor ADS doesn't recover from. It's a disaster!!!! This is a concern to me because I'm backing up some old (80's) videos that are in marginal shape to begin with.

[bigthor]

I registered at the MPEG2Works forum. I searched for WMV, and pulled up a post "can I convert a WMV"? Here it is:

"Can I convert an WMV file to mpeg2? I keep getting a -2700 error. I just installed quicktime 7 Pro, the mpeg2 compenent, and OSX 10.3.9.

thanks a bunch, Brian

SERBIAN
Site Admin

No, you cannot...Windows Media Video is not supported with my app...That thing has been discussed here on the forum before but you should use search to find those posts...Also I posted the link for Flip4Mac QuickTime plugin (under Video/Audio section here)which enables the QT to read and export .wmv files to other formats...I dont know does that component is compatibile with, for example, Digigami MegaPEG.X QuickTime component which enables MPEG exporting from QuickTime...

However there is a tools on the dark side /Windows/ which you can run under VirtualPC which can do that type of conversion for you..."

Thanks for pointing me to that forum, Babgolis. What brand of set-top DVD burner do you use?

[terryj]

If you get the Flip4Mac WMV Studio ( at least, this is what I have),
you then can open it in QT ( provided it doesn't have DRM
flags set)
and then export it out to a QT Movie, with 48khz 16 bit audio,
and using a "high" codec ( high quality, less compression)
like 3ivx or Apple Motion JPEG-A, the WMV will flatten,
and you should get a file you can then create an MPEG-2 from.

[bigthor]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I downloaded the QuickTime Scripts from Apple. The Applets-Droplets folder contains several Applescript applications that seemed promising.

When I dropped my WMV3 file onto Save Copy as DV Stream, it asked me for a location to save the file to. After that, the file opened in QT Pro, and a message window popped up that read:

"This movie has previously been set so that it cannot be copied, edited, or saved."

I get the same message when I dropped the file onto Convert to QuickTime Format, Save Copy in QT Format, Convert to DV Stream, and several others. Some did not even work.

Have you ever encountered a WMV3 file that has been locked to prevent it from being copied, edited, or saved? Would F4M Studio be able to override that copy protection?

I wonder if MacTheRipper would work on this file? Will try.

Thanks for the advice.

[babgolis]

I use the Cyberhome DVR 1600. Cheap but effective.

[terryj]

Thanks for your suggestions.


When I dropped my WMV3 file onto Save Copy as DV Stream, it asked me for a location to save the file to. After that, the file opened in QT Pro, and a message window popped up that read:

"This movie has previously been set so that it cannot be copied, edited, or saved."

I get the same message when I dropped the file onto Convert to QuickTime Format, Save Copy in QT Format, Convert to DV Stream, and several others. Some did not even work.

Have you ever encountered a WMV3 file that has been locked to prevent it from being copied, edited, or saved? Would F4M Studio be able to override that copy protection?
Thanks for the advice.

Your welcome, and sorry but welcome to Windows DRM.
You are encountering a form of it, in which if your Hardware
Config key is not present, you are locked out of being able
to edit, re-save or modify the file in any way.
Since QT will need to first flatten it to make another file type,
that counts as modifying the file, and you can't do that
under Windows DRM.

At this point, you should say...How bad do I REALLY want this file
as MPEG-2? If the answer is "very", then you will need to
get a copy of Snapz Pro X, recapture the file to QT .mov,
using Snapz' Capture feature. That is the ONLY
way possible to get around Windows DRM protected files.

Just make sure to use a "high" codec in your re-capture, and you
should have a decent file to use for MPEG-2.

[terryj]

I use the Cyberhome DVR 1600. Cheap but effective.

bab, how is that machine? Does it handle DVD-R discs?
Does it have/did it have firmware issues like the other
Cyberhome models I've been reading about on circuitcity?

[bigthor]

It seems the file is protected with Windows Media DRM.

However! I happened to find the same file in a .WMV format that is not locked. It is a WMV3 file, but when imported into QT Pro, DivX Doctor II, or iMovie, it imports perfectly. I now have exported it from QT Pro as an mpeg4 file, with options that seem to have enhanced its quality.

I'm very glad that I didn't have to use Snapz Pro X to capture the clip.

This has been a valuable learning experience. Thanks to all for your many great ideas.

My next challenge is to get ffmpegX to work on my Mac.

[terryj]

It seems the file is protected with Windows Media DRM.

However! I happened to find the same file in a .WMV format that is not locked. It is a WMV3 file, but when imported into QT Pro, DivX Doctor II, or iMovie, it imports perfectly. I now have exported it from QT Pro as an mpeg4 file, with options that seem to have enhanced its quality.

I'm very glad that I didn't have to use Snapz Pro X to capture the clip.

good 2 hear, glad 2 know.

This has been a valuable learning experience. Thanks to all for your many great ideas.

My next challenge is to get ffmpegX to work on my Mac.

your welcome. Try posting your problems two forums down
in the ffmpegx forum, accessible on the main Forum Page
( see link at left).
Major ( ffmpegx's creator) should be there and can help you.

[bigthor]

Thanks. I will try your suggestion and go two forums down in the ffmpegX forum to report my situation and ask for advice.

How will we know when to access your vidcast in iTunes?

[babgolis]

terryj,

The DVR 1600 has been fine. No real problems. It actually recognizes and records on DV-R without a problem, even though the manual says it doesn't. The display on the front of the thing actually tells you if your using + or - formatted discs, go figure. I'm not sure about DVD-RW. I've used DVD+RW with no issues. Recording quality is quite good - near perfect vhs replication in 3 hour recording mode. It does record in Half D-1, so if that's an issue, this machine is not for you. I'm not sure about Half D-1 in the highest setting. I bought it as an easy & way to get video into MPEG-2 on my aging (sigh) mac. It alllows multiple recording sessions, which are easily singled out & individually ripped or joined by DVD2oneX. For some reason MTR chokes on the DVD+RW's I've made with it.

I haven't monkeyed with the firmware... Yet!

Overall, a great recorder for less than $100 delivered.[/list][/quote]

[terryj]

Thanks. I will try your suggestion and go two forums down in the ffmpegX forum to report my situation and ask for advice.

How will we know when to access your vidcast in iTunes?

I'll turn the sig into the rss feed... soon...been having a few setbacks
(namely work getting in the way... ) and then I decided to make
it a vidcast...silly me....but I'm committed to getting it to "air"
by the end of the month.

[terryj]

terryj,

The DVR 1600 has been fine. No real problems. It actually recognizes and records on DV-R without a problem, even though the manual says it doesn't. The display on the front of the thing actually tells you if your using + or - formatted discs, go figure. I'm not sure about DVD-RW. I've used DVD+RW with no issues. Recording quality is quite good - near perfect vhs replication in 3 hour recording mode. It does record in Half D-1, so if that's an issue, this machine is not for you. I'm not sure about Half D-1 in the highest setting. I bought it as an easy & way to get video into MPEG-2 on my aging (sigh) mac. It alllows multiple recording sessions, which are easily singled out & individually ripped or joined by DVD2oneX. For some reason MTR chokes on the DVD+RW's I've made with it.

I haven't monkeyed with the firmware... Yet!

Overall, a great recorder for less than $100 delivered.[/list]

[/quote]

Bab, thanks!
I'm looking into a cheap machine to create decent one or two offs of
somethings that I don't/won't have the time for to build
"nice nice" in FCP/DVDSP, like Invasion America, The PJs,
and Dark Shadows ( 1990), as well as my Pretender episodes.
( I know FroBozz...pioneer, pioneer, pioneer )
I'll check into it....

[bigthor]

OK, terryj, good luck getting your project done. Understood that work always gets in the way of priority projects.

Am curious re your remark, "I know, FroBozz...pioneer, pioneer, pioneer." From the research I've done, if you are referring to makers of DVD recorders, no brand gets higher praises for quality than Pioneer. That's why I compare everything to the Pioneer 533/633 DVR, knowing nothing is perfect, and knowing that I'll probably hate myself the morning after if the hard drive is as noisy as the users who reviewed the unit make it out to be.

I looked at the Cyberhome DVR 1600 that bab says he has and it doesn't do double layer discs and I believe doesn't have an internal HD (thus the low cost). The internal HD is mandatory as I see it, because burning my vids with Toast, saving them as a disc image, then playing the disc in DVD player gives me that option of seeing what I've done first before going to disc.

And, I'm a little leery of the Half D-1 recording.

If I choose to buy the Canopus ADVC 300 unit, then I would use my big external HD on my Mac to burn to first. However, I really want portability, a standalone burner, because eventually I want to transfer my LPs and cassette tapes to DVD format also and my equipment is not all in the same location.

[terryj]

OK, terryj, good luck getting your project done. Understood that work always gets in the way of priority projects.

Am curious re your remark, "I know, FroBozz...pioneer, pioneer, pioneer." From the research I've done, if you are referring to makers of DVD recorders, no brand gets higher praises for quality than Pioneer. That's why I compare everything to the Pioneer 533/633 DVR, knowing nothing is perfect, and knowing that I'll probably hate myself the morning after if the hard drive is as noisy as the users who reviewed the unit make it out to be.

You hit it on the head my friend...
our fellow Frobozz, extolled the virtues of this unit ( Pioneer 533/633).
However, Since finding one nowadays is like finding a Black Mac TV,
I decided in the interest of just getting what I call
"my non-essential tapes" done to disc, to start focusing
on the cheaper units.

For all my make "nice nice" and essential tapes,
I use a Canopus ADVC-100, and go from my
4 Head VCR to Canopus to Mac via FW.
Then process through FCP, and then on to author in DVDSP3.

[Frobozz]

You hit it on the head my friend...
our fellow Frobozz, extolled the virtues of this unit ( Pioneer 533/633).

For the record, my Pioneer DVD recorder is a DVR-510H. It's ancient (2-year-old) technology. Pioneer says the 540/640 models will be out in June. They are adding DivX playback, +R and RAM media recording support, USB input for digital cameras and the ability to rip audio CDs to the hard drive to act as a jukebox. Extoll, extoll... at least until we learn what's wrong with it and what previously wonderful features they've decided to remove. Hopefully they will fix some of the annoying issues people are having with this year's models.

[terryj]

You hit it on the head my friend...
our fellow Frobozz, extolled the virtues of this unit ( Pioneer 533/633).

For the record, my Pioneer DVD recorder is a DVR-510H. It's ancient (2-year-old) technology.

My mistake Fro...I still can't find any series Pioneer with HD for sale.
They are pretty rare machines to have..but good to know about
the 640's will keep and eye out...

[bigthor]

terry and Frobozz, I found this:

The DVR-640H-S will be available June 2006 for a suggested price of $399.

The DVR-640H-S possesses these additional features:

Video
DVD-R Dual Layer Recording Front AV input (S-Video)
Front AV Input (S-Video)
30 Second Skip/Back
High-Speed Copy to DVD
Audio
Optical Audio Out
Other
HELP Function
1.5x View Speed
Component In
1 AV In/Out (S-Video)

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_291832573,00.html

My question to Frobozz is, does your Pioneer interface with your Mac via Firewire or USB?

[terryj]

bigthor, thanks!
I too, hope it allows for connectivity through Firewire.

[bigthor]

Found this:

HealeyGuy 09-15-05, 09:48 AM

I think you were quoting me about the iMovie-to-recorder. Any standalone recorder with Firewire/iLink only accepts DV video via that connection. It cannot accept MPEG 2 video via Firewire. To copy MPEG 2 video to a standalone recorder you would need to burn a DVD and then use the real-time copy feature on the recorder to dub from DVD to HDD.

As for my experience recording from iMovie via Firewire on my Pioneer DVR-510H, this is done by setting the Pioneer's input to DV and pressing record. It is not done via the Pioneer's menu for importing from a DV camcorder. iMovie has a setting where you can play the movie back to camera. This is the setting that lets the Pioneer see the video playing from the iMovie timeline. If PC editing applications have a playback-to-camera feature then I presume this will work as well.

But the Pioneer recorder is clear that it only accepts DV video via Firewire, so if you have a mix of video formats in your movie editing application I'm sure the transfer will fail.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-575151.html

Frobozz, is this your experience also? Thanks.