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  1. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    You want to know a secret? None of the current ATI or NVIDIA graphics cards will support the full capabilities of Windows Vista.

    But let’s start from the beginning. This story starts with my upcoming LCD Monitor Round-Up. As you know, a good monitor should last several years and outlive every other component in your PC, other than perhaps a keyboard or a mouse. So, when it came time to do another review of LCD monitors, my attention turned towards “Windows Vista-ready” monitors: those with HDCP. After all, it makes no sense to recommend a monitor that will go obsolete in just a few months.

    a GREAT article - read a lot more HERE
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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  2. yeh,have to laugh at the old 7500,and 8500 ati cards that were supposedly hd.
    and now the new ati x1900,they arent either,so i guess some geeks are going to be pissed off.
    nice article all round.
    LifeStudies 1.01 - The Angle Of The Dangle Is Indirectly Proportionate To The Heat Of The Beat,Provided The Mass Of The Ass Is Constant.
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  3. I was pretty surprised to hear about this. I had no idea the new copy protection would be embedded in video card hardware as well as underlying OS support. I always assumed the copy protection would be similar to DVD - a combination of the optical drive and player software.

    By limiting playback to Windows Vista and OSX Leopard they are omitting everyone who doesn't upgrade and also anyone running Linux.

    By limiting playback on computers to a small set of video cards which aren't even out yet they're even further diminishing the market.

    So it comes right down to the point - it seems neither Blue-ray nor HD-DVD want anyone to be able to access their content from a computer at all.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Big Media companies want everybody to come to their HiDef party--"it's going to be so much cooler than anybody else's"

    "Wait, you can't come in, or you, or you, or you two either. Oh, yeah, there's a ticket price to get in. And another ticket price to get in past the hallway/entryway. And we have surveillance cameras set up on every room corner. And the band playing is the same one you saw last year at another party--just flashier this time. And the bathrooms are across the street, but you have to pay again to get back in..."

    Hey! How come nobody's coming to our party???

    When greed blinds companies from seeing the very customers they were designed to serve, the will end up choking the air off their own life support. (Sorry to mix metaphors)

    Scott
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  5. Banned
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    Funny stuff. Oh well, I guess like everything else new that comes out I'll be buying another graphics card. Of course, I'll probably be buying at least one before the HDCP boards are available. Graphics cards have about a maximum 6 months life cycle here.
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  6. Member
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    As I read all about these HD issues, I just shake my head and realize that I probably spend too much time watching TV.

    Frankly, I am more than happy with the current picture quality of my DVD movies and my digital standard definition TV. Beyond that I think I'll just say "F' it!" and go outside for some fresh air.

    Dan
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  7. Originally Posted by Soltaris
    Snip

    So it comes right down to the point - it seems neither Blue-ray nor HD-DVD want anyone to be able to access their content from a computer at all.
    So you are surprised that they would rather lose the PC viewer rather than have easy copying?

    I'm sorry but IMHO who wants to watch a DVD on their computer screen instead of on the larger screen TV set with the surround sound system, (Excluding Laptop users traveling) Who has a a display capable of those resolutions excluding a small minority with tons of disposable income.

    At this point in time I haven't even spent the money for a HD TV, Maybe if some compelling content comes along and prices keep dropping. IMHO it appears that the early HDTV adopters ae ending up with the short end of the stick. How many different ways to connect to the HDTV have come and gone? What percentage of the current HDTVs in the home will be able to display HDCP protected content? How many are still being sold in teh stores that don't meet that criteria?

    TV set life being what it is, Do I really want to throw out all the TV sets in the house or just go get a HD to SD converter.

    Cheers
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  8. ROF sounds like a gamer. Me I'm still buzzing along on my GeForce 64Mb MX200 card and it does quite nicely for my needs. I know I'm not the only one. How many computers still being sold are going to be able to run Vista optimally? Very few I'm guessing.
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  9. i play few games,latest was call of duty 2,
    not a great gamer here though,not on the pc.
    never watched a movie on my pc either,not one.
    always stick my avis,mpegs etc on my xbox,or on my sumvision dvd reconder,and watch dvds in my living room.
    guess im not going to that hidef party soon!
    LifeStudies 1.01 - The Angle Of The Dangle Is Indirectly Proportionate To The Heat Of The Beat,Provided The Mass Of The Ass Is Constant.
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Quoting the article

    "Wow. You can pick your favorite expletive."
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  11. Member
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    With so many restrictions being built into the next Windows I don't see myself upgrading for a long, long time unless some "patches" come out to fix these limitations. Buy a whole new system just to watch movies on my PC? No thanks. Like tdan said, I think I'm gonna be spending more time outside or find another hobby if it comes to that. I read a brief article about this a few months back but didn't think it was going to be this bad. I 'm sure glad that I'm no longer in the habit of buying every new card that comes out.
    I think I'll just sit back and watch the industry implode. Very unlikely though. Many people today will just accept whatever big business throws their way without any thought about the future implications. It'll be just like many things today. People will complain but will still end up giving in and buy in. Probably me included as well .
    Unfortuantely many consumers just look at the ads in the paper, watch the flashy commercial that subliminally tells them "You have to own this or you're a loser", buy the product with no research at all and pretty soon big business is calling the shots.
    OK, I'm just ranting nonsense here but I do hope that Vista flops and another Apex-like company for Hi-Def comes around that swamps the market with cheap, non-controlled players and cards and ruins the idea of content control. :P
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  12. Keep in mind that for the average joe DRM is not a biggie, they're still running along quite happily surfing the Net using Word/Wordperfect & in some cases I've seen AMI from the win 3.x days. Blithely forgoing security patches letting their Antivirus expire etc. , Not backing up their digital pictures and do you know what they are happy, things work for them.

    We on this board are a very small % of the total computer user pool. These things affect us. Not Joe Average.

    I can't even get my own mother to upgrade her old Cyrix 200Mhz with 32Mb ram, win98, 4 Gb hard drive. I was going to use a laptop that has a bad screen, 4 times the memory 4 time the drive space, much faster, much smaller, Uses less expensive power, boots faster and so on....

    No, nada, nope,no way, she likes her computer!
    maybe when the At power supply blows I can get it upgraded as they are getting hard to get.

    Users like her are not likely to worry about Vista and drm.
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  13. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Not APEX, think AMD vs Intel., Honda vs. GM, Microsoft vs. IBM, everybody vs. Sony.
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  14. Eff all this (HD, BR) nonsense! There's too many hoops to jump through just to see a movie. Vista is really starting to sound like a shiny candy-coated DRM nightmare. I have already witnessed a serious security flaw in a beta version of it. Sorry but the entertainment industry must start being better to it's customers before they lose them. I, for one, am not waiving my right to tinker with things, and enjoy what I've bought how I want.
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  15. Originally Posted by Headbanger's Ball
    I, for one, am not waiving my right to tinker with things, and enjoy what I've bought how I want.
    Me either, that's half the appeal of having a computer, freedom to do what you want. I've already decided to build my next computer, and it won't have Vista on it. So what if it's not "cutting edge"? :P
    Pull! Bang! Darn!
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  16. Member painkiller's Avatar
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    Likewise, pass on Vista.

    I am so unimpressed with the direction this industry is taking.

    Much like what Tboneit has said, I noticed my parents find their Iopener just fine for basic email and some internet browsing.
    (Too bad I couldn't use it to program my Tivo when out of town at the time.)

    I said it before, and again - the HDTV technologies forthcoming are going to show the industry backers just how little the public will rally behind it.
    Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)
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  17. With this DRM scheme, that *everything* has to be HDCP compatable before you can see a movie, hard core computer users (like us) won't buy into this unless there's a software workaround on the net somewhere. I for one hope both BR and HD die a burning, firey death.
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  18. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SilverBlade

    ... I for one hope both BR and HD die a burning, firey death.
    To be replaced by a download/homeserver distribution model.
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  19. After some investigation, Brandon and I determined that there is no shipping retail add-in board with HDCP decoding keys. Simply put, none of the AGP or PCI-E graphics cards that you can buy today support HDCP.
    Sounds like a huge class action lawsuit is needed here. It will bring attention to the insanity of HDCP and cost the industry a boatload of money.
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  20. I hope so. I just dropped $2000 on a new computer. If they think I'll spend another couple hundred to get an HDCP-compatable monitor and video card (and CPU, and RAM, and Hard drive) ...then forget it. I'll stick with regular DVD>
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  21. yea, the industry is honestly shooting itself in the foot with this nonsense....although the technology will obviously exist, maybe some judge somewhere can pass a law that FORCES the flag on every HD DVD/blu ray disc to be set OFF when it comes to that copy protection......as for vista...im gonna take a pass on it as long as i can, too.....winxp with aston running as a desktop replacement is plenty good....i can hold more icons on my desktop than any desktop that MS could ever DREAM of making.........hate to see how 50+ catagorized icons would look on any standard desktop
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  22. Originally Posted by Soltaris
    By limiting playback to Windows Vista and OSX Leopard they are omitting everyone who doesn't upgrade and also anyone running Linux.
    This could be a good thing. It was lack of a Linux DVD player that led to DVDJon creating DeCSS.

    -drj
    They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
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    Originally Posted by TBoneit
    Originally Posted by Soltaris
    Snip

    So it comes right down to the point - it seems neither Blue-ray nor HD-DVD want anyone to be able to access their content from a computer at all.
    So you are surprised that they would rather lose the PC viewer rather than have easy copying?

    I'm sorry but IMHO who wants to watch a DVD on their computer screen instead of on the larger screen TV set with the surround sound system, (Excluding Laptop users traveling) Who has a a display capable of those resolutions excluding a small minority with tons of disposable income.
    I'm quite surprised at both these statements. The specifications for HDCP have been available for quite some time. The GPU sections have been able to build chips which run with HDCP specs, yet the boards these chips are attached to are not HDCP compliant. The content producers have nothing to do with graphics board manufacturers.

    The Digital Content Protection, LLC has done their job by telling them what to do. The problem lies with the board manufacturers. As the article says, "just because the GPU itself supports HDCP doesn’t mean that the graphics card can output a DVI/HDCP compliant stream. There needs to be additional support at the board level." It is ATI and nVidia who have both dropped the ball in this category. It is those companies who are at fault for not providing people with HDCP compliant boards.

    I'm also quite surprised that you'd believe quite a few people with larger screen TVs do not have a computer sitting somwhere close by or within Wi-Fi range of this television in order to transmit a media signal from the PC to their televisions. Ever heard of HTPC(Home Theater Personal Computers)? Most HTPC owners have a large screen they are pairing with such a device. It is in just such a device that I upgrade my video and swap out hard drives on a regular basis. Lately I've been swapping optical drives pretty regularly too. You'd also be surprised how many college students do not have a television in their rooms. They have an HTPC which has a cable ready tuner, DVD support, and also helps them research their term papers. Not every person thinks a 20" LCD is for browsing the net. I'm surprised you hasn't considered these two large segments of the computing soceity.
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  24. Member Snakebyte1's Avatar
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    The term "HD" is being thrown around left, right and center, and as far as I am concerned, its more marketting hype than anything, getting everyone in a buying frenzy.

    Yet none of this technology has settled down yet, who knows what will stay and what will fade away?

    It reminds me of 6 years ago when everything was Y2K this and Millenium that, and everyone rushing out to buy something...

    I think a lot of people are falling for this sales pitch that home entertainment theatres are now essential requirements. Forget paying the utility bills or the mortgage or adding to the retirement savings this month, we gotta get a bigger TV!

    Well, I still do a lot of work on an Old PII 333Mhz running Win98 and it works just fine. I still use a VCR to time shift programs and if the picture is not DVD quality I certainly don't care.

    I have red-neck friends who are going bankrupt cause they keeping buying old crappy cars, and I have richer friends going bankrupt buying all the latest TVs and home theatre equipment. Is it worth it? Not to me, anyway.
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  25. ROF, To be honest I had forgotten HTPC boxes, Probably because I see no need for such a thing. OTOH even they are not having the video content watched on a computer screen, rather on a TV set.

    I'm quite happy with a 400 DVD changer hooked up. What we need to keep in mind is that these new HD formats will eat up disc space unless converted to some other format and then that will lower quality. In that case why not just use DVDs?

    How many HTPC users record things to watch later or burn to DVD vs How many are being used as Divx/Xvid servers and to the TV set.

    Once again I use DVRs, one dual tuner Dishnetwork model, two single tuner models in the house, plus the Pioneer 531h and a Tivo hooked up to basic cable. Equaling in my mind 4+ Dvrs with 6 tuners. One of the Dishnetwork DVRs I keep in use is because it is so easy to extract the video from the HD using software from a Yahoo group. As DVB it is a 544 by 480 resolution or 640 by 480 on Premium channels. The 544 by 480 authors fine in TDA after using DVD Patcher, It plays fine in my Sony's and a cheapo Apex's.

    Or I can feed the Dual tuner into the Pioneer and capture with some minimal quality loss.

    Anyway that is why a HTPC never entered my thoughts when I was replying before. I have always preferred discrete single purpose devices. IE Separate Scanner, Fax machine, Printer rather than a all - in -One device. The S/w for my HP scanners has always had a copy fucntion. I'm still using a 890C from 1997 for color a Laserjet IIIp for black and white. Only reason I have a Epson R200 is printing on DVDs/CDs

    If I stepped on any toes, sorry. I had forgotten Collge students, however I bet if we asked them they'd much rather have a large screen TV for TV stuff.
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  26. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    HTPC is something that interest the younger ages, that wish to do stuff, the cheapest way.

    There's gonna be a generation GAP soon: The pre 32 year olds with PC / Console based solutions (HTPC etc) vs the old timers that wish a unit for each task seperate.

    The indestry overall won't gain money from the 32 year olds, so focus on the older and at the same time try to restric anything PC based.

    On the long term, they shoot their foot: Just look what happened with mp3...
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  27. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    BigControversy writes "It looks like a big can of worms is being opened. The DailyTech.com is reporting that ATI sold millions of video cards knowing that HDCP support was not enabled. Despite that, the cards were sold and advertised to its customers as having HDCP capabilities. A day or two after this information was revealed, HDMI.org went completely password protected and ATI is now modifying key areas of its website, removing any mention of 'HDCP-ready'."
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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  28. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I smell a recall
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  29. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    i smell a lawsuit
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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  30. Member edDV's Avatar
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    NVidea will probably blame the card manufacturers and step away.
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