They are pretty much identical in quality. The DR-M100 I believe uses a latter generation LSI chip (maybe even tweaked Digipure settings), and I think I can see a difference in the DR-100 quality compared to the older DR-M10 (slightly cleaner encodes, not softer), but I've not had time to pull it apart and see exectly which chip is inside.Originally Posted by mray
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FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
For those interested in JVC, I noticed the local Best Buy has dropped the price of the DR-MV5 to $229. I believe this combo unit is of the same generation as the DR-M100 and has no reported issues. The Panasonic ES20 was about $160.
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The JVC kicks the Panasonics ass hands down, no questions asked, do all the tests you want there is no shadow of a doubt that JVC is better.
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This press release is about a month old, but here you go -
JVC ANNOUNCES NEW DVD RECORDER AND DVD/VHS RECORDER COMBO
Two low-profile decks offer HDMI output and DV input.
LAS VEGAS, January 5, 2006 – JVC today introduced a pair of DVD recorders that include both an HDMI output for convenient connection to display devices and a DV input to simplify the transfer of camcorder footage. The new JVC DR-M101S is a full-featured DVD recorder, while the new DR-MV7S is a combination DVD/VHS recorder.
The new DR-M101S DVD recorder, which stands just 2.1 inches tall, records DVDs in the DVD-RW/-R/+RW/+R formats, and is compatible in both playback and record with +R dual layer discs. Features include an HDMI output with 1080i/720p up-conversion and a DV (IEEE 1394) input, plus component video outputs. Also offered are a 16-program/one-month timer, progressive scan, six-hour recording maximum, Dolby Digital/DTS output, 1.5x playback with audio, 3D surround sound, and a slimmer, easier-to-use remote control. Compatible playback formats are DVD-Video, DVD-RW/-R/+RW/+R, CD, CD-R/RW, VCD/SVCD, JPEG and MP3.
The new DR-MV7S is a DVD/VHS recorder combo that includes all of the DR-M101S features plus a Hi-Fi VHS deck. The combo recorder, which stands just 3.1 inches tall, makes the transfer of VHS material to DVD a very simple procedure. Like the DR-M101S, the DR-MV7S offers DVD HD up-conversion, but also offers VHS HD up-conversion. Using the deck’s HDMI output, the VHS signal is up-converted to 1080i or 720p to match the resolution capability of the HD display, delivering a better quality VHS picture.
Pricing and availability:
Approximate
Model Retail Price Available
DR-M101S $229.95 May
DR-MV7S $269.95 May
About JVC Company of America
JVC Company of America, headquartered in Wayne, New Jersey, is a division of JVC Americas Corp., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Victor Company of Japan Ltd., and a holding company for JVC companies located in North and South America. JVC distributes a complete line of video and audio equipment, including high definition displays, camcorders, VCRs, D-VHS recorders, DVD players and recorders, satellite systems, home and portable audio equipment, mobile entertainment products and recording media. For further product information, visit JVC’s Web site at http://www.jvc.com or call 800-526-5308. -
In the end, I settled on a Pioneer DVR-220.
First I had a Panasonic DMR-E30. Built well, but the quality sucked past 2 hours, and I'd even see macroblocks at or a little bit under 2 hours. The newer models seem to do fine at 2 hours but really badly at any longer, especially since they don't record at Half-D1 for lower bitrate recordings.
Then I bought a JVC DRM10. Easily the best recording quality I've seen, but it was a May '04 unit that had the resistor problems. I sent the machine back to JVC several times and THEY NEVER FIXED IT. They eventually sent me a new (or maybe refurbed) October '04 unit, but I haven't used it and will probably just sell it. I'm really weary about JVC, as two friends of mine who have the newer DRM100 have had the resistor problem. I recommend it only if you buy it from somewhere with a great return policy, such as Amazon (it may be slightly more expensive than some other retailers, but I think it would be worth it here).
So I settled on a Pioneer DVR-220. Excellent recording quality (not quite as good as JVC, but much better than most), and really solidly built. I also like that it uses the whole disc to record, as opposed to other brands which only seem to record up to about 4.01 GB. This provides slightly higher bitrate for each time setting than others. The newer models apparently record at Full D1 resolution even at lower bitrates, so they're not really worth getting.
So anyway, I guess that means my recommendation is:
-Pioneer DVR-220, which is becoming harder to find, *or*...
-JVC DRM100, but only if you get it from Amazon. -
"Then I bought a JVC DRM10. Easily the best recording quality I've seen, but it was a May '04 unit that had the resistor problems."
What do you mean by this?
The JVC brand models use the whole discs, or much more than the Panasonic at least.
Maybe a question for FS, who has the 100, how would you rate the FR180 mode vs the 4 hour mode? Im looking at taking the JVC 70 back and getting the 100 because most of my stuff that im transfering from VHS is between 2 hours and 3 hours so a 4 mode is really a waste of disc and quality. -
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
Thanks too to GSHELLEY61. Very interesting news on the new recorders. I see the spec doesn't include RAM. Is it not included in the new models? -
JVC DR-M10S units from around May, 2004 were some of the earlier units which had the famous "loading" problem commonly ascribed to bad parts like the resistors mentioned.
My own experience with helping troubleshoot those units showed that there was also a manufacturing defect. A thermal pad needed to conduct heat away from the LSI processor in some units was not doing the job due to poor fit. When this happens the temperature of the LSI processor can exceed its maximum ratings and cause it permanent damage. The DR-MV1 has a similar fit problem.
I would recommend staying with the DR-M100S. There have been no reported issues like that.
There have been some real bargains for the M10 and MV1's however. I saw a MV1 recently for $99 and someone else reported Fry's had M10's for $67 ( refurbished ).
[edit] looks like neither JVC or Panasonic are going to offer dual/double layer recording. -
Does the JVC DRM 100 have any of the TBC features that the DRM70 has?
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Originally Posted by MeekloBraca
I wanted a 1394 to S-Video converter in order to utilize the exceptional TBC in my MiniDV Camcorder to capture from Analog Tape in real time to my PVR-250.
What I also get with the Panasonic is a frame synchronizer as good as the TBC-1000. The JVC frame synchronizer performance is not as good; it is noticeably less tolerant of timebase instability.
While the Panasonic worked great when I tried to capture an old EP VHS tape, the JVC kept displaying a copy protection error and shutting down. Who's got time for that?
For General DVD Recording, I have already become addicted to time-slip. I know that both of them have it, but as an everyday recording/playback device I greatly prefer the GUI and response time of the Panasonic.
As far as picture quality goes, I prefer more detail (with more noise if necessary) to a softer cleaner image. I also like being able to turn the filters on or off. I'm not interested in 3 or 4 hour mode recording.
The Panasonic was about half the price of the JVC. -
Trhouse.
Reading Gshelley61's post, the new models will record on +r DL. That's how I read the post anyway. -
Originally Posted by davideck
You can buy recorders or cards that ignore anti-copy, that fix some errors, even get a pseudo-TBC device like a Sima. But at the end of the day, these will still not work 100% like the TBC, all you're doing is wasting money (possibly even making quality sacrifices on the "friendly" devices) to avoid the inevitable. And if you're really concerned about good video transfer quality, $200 for an AVT-8710 is not unreasonable.
I can understand your point of view, but it's really sort of an uphill battle.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
I agree that having a TBC is essential, but they should only be used when necessary.
These DVD Recorders are frame synchronizers themselves, providing many of the same benefits of an external TBC. Apart from removing Macrovision, the front end of the ES20 includes the functionality of a TBC-100. It can also be used as a frame synchronizer between a VCR and a PC capture device. The JVC, on the other hand, seems to occasionally require an additional external frame synchronizer just to stay in record. Maybe the ES20 has the same problem, but I haven't seen it yet.
To solve the JVC faulty copy protection shutdown, a Sima type box might be a better choice because it will blank out the appropriate lines and pass the rest without the unnecessary Analog to Digital to Analog conversions within a TBC. If that doesn't work, then a TBC would be the next best choice. -
mray,
Thanks for the note. I missed that the M101S will record to +r double layer. That is a plus for me. -
I own a Toshiba XS RD-24.
I bought it just before last Christmas, and so far it's been excellent. It's easy to use and the playback quality is superb, even on a 'low' setting.
It has a 160Gb hard drive and has loads of features (few of which I have used).
I'd certainly recommend it......James....hmmmm....nice..... -
Originally Posted by ejai
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I have recordings in various XP/SP/LP from Pioneer old and new, Pan old and new, and Liteon and to be honest, I really don't see a big difference in any of them. They all vary a little in terms of color, shading, sharpness. But in terms of PQ - mosquito noise, macroblocks, I see these problems in ALL of them. People say the Pan really exposes that at SP and past but I see the same thing on the Pioneers if not more. The Pioneer 220 in particular is horrible at SP mode in my opinion. I see macroblocks galore during a sporting event.
The main culprit to all this ugliness is the stupid Directv provider I'm with. They turn all my recordings into trash. I can record at XP and still see mosquito noise. I have SP recordings from Panasonic from a cable company in another region that looks better than my XP Pioneer recordings. It all comes down to the POS source you're feeding it. Also, the cables might have something to do with it as well. I use AR garden hose sized S-Video cables gold plated and it elaborates the mosquito/macblocks further than if I were to use Composite. But I lose the clarity and detail of the S-vid cable. -
Satellite and digital cable use highly compressed MPEG2 streams. They are both terrible when it comes to encoding artifacts, especially motion induced macroblocks. The various DVD recorders can't do anything about that. They simply are recording what is being sent to them.
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My best VHS tapes and subsequently my best dvd recordings were done when I had digital cable.
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Thanks for all the info, there is really more info than I expected. I will post my results in a few days after I have done a couple backups of VHS.
Once again thanks a lot you guys have help out tremendously."Do or Do not, there is no try"- Yoda -
Originally Posted by gshelley61
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Well this thread comes just in perfect timing for me!
I just ordered Pioneer DVR-530H. I had many doubts and finally disgarded JVC (Victor in Japan where I am). Reason? Well in kuchikomi (customer reviews & questions on a web store portal) even recent opinions are citing the Loading problem. So I decided to stay away especially my wife will be the main user.
My second choice was Toshiba RD-XS38 but I saw there is no TBC or DNR listed in it's spec/function list so I went for the Pioneer that has also the LSI chip. One point of concirn is Pioneer as all other now is doing 720x480 up to 170 min (MN - manual mode). Shall I expect low quality at MN16 or better go to MN15 that lowers the resolution to 544x480 for 180 min?
Actualy I still prefer getting the Toshiba - it has twin tuner + BS (broadcast satelite) tuner as well as LAN connection and posibility for Internet based program guide (so you can program also for external digital tuners, etc.)
Readin here people say Toshiba's quality is on par with the best I wonder if I shall change my order?
Any opinion will be greatly appreciated!
Oh and the new Victor DR-MH300 has also DMI connector with upscaling feature for smooth display on the new flat HD displays. This was strong point concidering it but again the craftmanship problems took me away... -
BogieV, does the Pioneer DVR-530H really have the LSI chip ?? That would be great, to combine Pioneer's build quality and flexible recording times with the recording quality provided by the LSI chip, but there are no Pioneers noted on the LSI page yet: http://www.lsilogic.com/products/product_showcase/index.html
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Yep, here is the link but it is in Japanese - use translator if the pictures are not enough:
http://www.pioneer.co.jp/dvd/products/tappuri/4points/index_02.html
Edit: Here is straight link translated for the picture optimizations in the Pioneer recorders (Japanese market):
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2...ction5.html#12 -
Thanks, BogieV. The DVR-530H sounds like an exceptional machine.
In Canada, we currently have the 533H and 633H models, with 80GB and 160GB hard drives respectively, but as far as I know, neither have the LSI chip. Hopefully, Pioneer's next North American models WILL incorporate the LSI chip. -
I think that is incorrect. LSI is the name of a company but is also an acronym for "large scale integration".
I pulled the image out of the link provided above. Look carefully at the logo.
It is the same logo on the processor used in the Pioneer 420 which I took apart. Here is the picture of the 420 processor.
That part was identified as made by Mitsubishi Electric. -
thouse, I haven't ment to misslead anybody so thanks for the clarification!
I noticed that even Victor is adding their variant 1chip DSP/Interface LSI (with logo JVC) to the main MPEG-2 codec LSI maid by LSI Logic corporation.
Anyway aside from the argue which gives the best picture quality I checked in a shop today some PAL compability. Victor have convertor from PAL to NTSC so anyone can watch PAL disc on a NTSC only TV (Japan & US affected).
Toshiba refused to play at all the disc saying it is PAL.
And Pioneer seemed to pass through the PAL signal to the NTSC monitor (B&W with frame rolling).
So I guess I'll stick to the Pioneer as it will play PAL on Multi or PAL TV sets. It might also record PAL signal if fed by such - the European version DVR-530H-S comes with official suport for both PAL and NTSC recording but such is not marked in the Japanese or US machines.
For me it comes every brand have some good points but no one have made almost perfect recorder. We can just hope this to change! -
After reading this thread, I'm still really torn between the JVC and the Panny.
I understand that JVC is a better model for recording over 2.5 hours (which I won't do), and for analogue caps of VHS (due to the superior filtering).
But the biggest swinger for me is the inability to turn off the filters on the JVC, as I HATE soft video. I do want to do some VHS conversions, so I am willing to get soft video for that.
But, I will mostly be using it for capping off the DVR. Either through the firewire (for non 5C channels), or through s-video (for 5C channels). I've read that firewire input will bypass the JVC filters, but that doesn't help me for the s-video input from the DVR.
So, I suppose my question is, how soft is the JVC on good sources ? I could always post process with some sharpening filters in avisynth, but I don't want to have to do this all the time.
If the softness on the JVC is minor, then I think that I will go with that. Although another annoyance is that 90day labor warranty. At least the Panny gives you a year. 90 days is joke if you really stand by your product.
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