Computer Keeps Resetting

[ROF]

Hope it fits and works.

[Cobra]

Make sure it is the right type. Not all RAM is the same. Some fit into the same slots but are quite different.

[Squid_uk]

different in which way?

Also forgot to ask, could the RAM prevent other things from working for example, i seem to get alot of programs that have to shut down due to an error and it the asks if i want to send a error report

[Nelson37]

It's like squeezing individual olives for oil.

List and detail ALL symptoms. Take your time and give it some thought.

Strongly recommend you not mess with the PC's innards yet.

Boot in Safe Mode (press F8 when booting , select at menu). Then let it sit and do not touch it. Let it sit for approximately twice the typical longest time period when it resets. Example - it often reboots in 2 hours or less, but sometimes it will run for 6 to 8 hours and then reboot. Then let it sit in Safe Mode for at least 12 hours.

If it still reboots, then most likely you have a hardware problem. If it does not reboot, then most likely you have a software problem. Even better, you can do No Harm with this procedure.

Strongly recommend you get someone who has done it before to exchange Ram chips, Power Supply, and check temeratures/fans. Or to run a virus and spyware scan, re-install drivers, and clean out your startup programs.

[Squid_uk]

Nelson when i try and boot in safe mode it displays a black screen with file locations and then doesnt seem to do anything after that, i leave the system on doing nothing then it will stay on, it only seems to happen when i make it do something.

I tried the RAM out of my old system and it doesn't fit, the RAM i currently have is 512MB DDR Ram 400MHz, Would i be able to replace that with 512MB DDR SRAM?

[gadgetguy]

It sounds like you booted into "command" mode instead of "safe" mode. Safe mode looks like windows, but has the word "safe" in the corners. It also comes up with a warning that you are in safe mode, blah, blah, blah.
Reboot and try again.

[Squid_uk]

when window boot i press F8 and i comes up with a load of options one being safe mode when i select that that is the srceen that is displayed

[gadgetguy]

My WinXP machine is in pieces right now, so I'm going from memory on this, but that's not what safe mode is supposed to show. Reboot again and list all of the options available.

[Nelson37]

There should be several Safe Mode entries on the menu. Command prompt only, Network, and just Plain SAFE MODE. Is this what you see, and is this what you selected?

How long did you wait on the black screen with file locations? It may take several minutes. What is the last file name you see? Just the file name, you may notice the file locations are all the same. Probably Mup.sys.

You state you have left the machine on and it does not reset. Do you mean in a normal boot, or the attempted safe mode boot?

Precise answers are absolutely necessary.

What is the typical time interval for a reset? What is the longest period it has run without a reset, since the problem began? When you let it sit, how long did you wait without touching it?

Answer all questions clearly and precisely. Double-check your answers to make sure they are clear. I will not waste much time on this, it gets too frustrating dealing with people who are not willing to take a minute or so to do the required steps, and then clearly state what they are seeing.

[Squid_uk]

ok i will get back on those question asap!!

[Squid_uk]

Right here we go:

These are the options given to me when i press F8 on start up:

1. Safe Mode
2. Safe Mode with Networking
3. Safe Mode with Command Prompt
4. Enable Boot Logging
5. Last Good Known Config
6. Directory Services Restore Mode
7. Disable Auto Restart on System Failure
8. Start Normally
9. Reboot
10. Return to OS Choices

I choose no.1, it then ask which OS i would like to use i only have one so i choose XP, it then displays a black screen with text that reads,

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS\system 32\drivers(then many different end text) the final one does have, mup.sys.

I left this screen on while i went out i was out 4 2 and half hours and when i came back not had changed

Time for a reset is hard to say cause this morn it happened as soon as i turned it on but it hasnt done it for at least 3 hrs

The machine seems to stay on when in normal mode and it is not being used or when using the internet, suppose the loongest it has run would be 12hrs without a restart,

In my opinion it seems to restart when i ask it to do something big, like search for viruses, install software etc.

And as said before i seem to get alot of programs that have to shut down due to an error and it the asks if i want to send a error report thing like ABC, Divx Plugins etc.

I understand Nelson why you would get frustrated and im sorry for not being precise its also very frustrating for me to as the system was fine b4 i went away and now it just well you know, but i suppose that parents for you!!

[Nelson37]

OK, you have that worst possible situation, the intermittant problem. That means that sometimes it fails, and sometimes it works properly. Appears to be somewhat random.

What this means is that testing is complicated by the fact that you cannot reliably produce the failure condition. Repair largely consists of replacing parts and seeing if the failure occurs, in your case this would mean a wait period of up to 2 full days to be certain that the error NOT happening is not simply a random occurrence.

Circuitry issues will tend to run for a while with intermittent issues, then at some point rapidly snowball until the machine becomes completely unusable. PITA, but at least then you have a definitely repeatable error condition.

Resets while running are usually a live circuit issue, like power, overheating, mem chip, CPU, Mobo, and somewhat less likely a stored or running file. However, the lockup when booting in Safe Mode points to an error loading a file, or a serious circuit issue which you would expect to prevent any successful boot. Almost eliminates Virus or running software.

Oddly enough, on some systems this indicates you need to physically remove the AGP card, re-install, then reboot and all is well. Loose case, too much board flex, and it has been moved or bumped.

Combining the statements about resetting when running Norton Antivirus, which involves heavy hard drive activity, and the somewhat heat-related frequency, I'd be looking at hard drive.

Do you hear any unusual noises or patterns of repeated noise from the hard drive, particularly near the failure point?

Now it becomes a question of money versus time and effort. If you have a Norton CD you can boot from that and run a virus test. If possible to hook the drive up to a second PC, or put in a different boot drive in this PC, to run Scandisk or Chkdks, and Defrag, and see if it locks up or gives error msgs. Running a heavy diagnostic on this hard drive would be the first goal, likely cause of problem and there is no cost.

You want a situation where you have not booted from that drive, and simply do repeated file access all over the drive. In another PC would be ideal, put it in place of the CD and defrag it, most likely it will freeze or return errors.

Alternate would be install new hard drive if you have been considering an upgrade. Re-installing Windows may temporarily or even long-term solve the problem, could just be a random file corruption from some unknown cause. Worth a shot on a low budget, no risk.

Replacing Power Supply with one KNOWN to be good and with a little more power than current would also be a good idea. Power Supply is cheap, often a faulure point, and often underpowered. Also easy to replace, can get more fans, quieter, etc.

Faulty memory almost impossible to catch with diagnostic unless it has completely failed. Time to replace memory is extremely minimal, probably easiest part to replace. Also least likely to fail.

Motherboard, CPU typically not practical to replace, if they are bad and out of warranty an upgrade is more likely.

If you have not replaced any of these parts before, do NOT start now. After the diagnostics, find someone you know who has done these changes before. Take your time, do not rush. Do ONE thing at a time, start with the cheapest and easiest. Move the drive, run the diags, re-install Windows. Report back.

[Squid_uk]

Nelson you're being a star as well as everyone else who has helped, i will post again as soon as i have ran the checks etc, thanks again!

[Squid_uk]

i know i've jst posted and this is not a bump, i have just remembered that i tried booting from the Norton disk and it picked up nothing, the remarks about strange sound b4 shutdown, i haven't noticed anything strange about the system regard noise etc, when you say about the replaement of parts i get very annoyed because, as you can see from a previous post (https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279337&highlight=) i had problem with a um SMALL power surge and this cost around oh £400 to fix this problem so most of the stuff in my system is quite new, but i suppose it could be faulty, also sometimes when i've started the system i've had a pop up appear and tell me that a file or folder is corrupt or unreadable, now when trying to delete this folder no luck same error as before, the folder causing the problem is Symantic (Norton Live Update) and i cant get rid of this folder could this cause the prob? One more thing, this happened before i went away but when trying to defrag my hard drive i kept getting this error,

'The scan has been cancelled because an error occoured in file C:\Document and settings\[Username]\local settings\tempory internet files\Content.IE5\8LKX2N8L\locked_pages[1].js

the file sometimes returned as a jpg, could this be assisting the problem? i tried loads of different spyware removal virus removal etc but still kept getting the error

[Bjs]

A couple of possibilities :

1 : it is common that users dont check pc's for dust , which can be a cause of over heating issue's .

2 : Power supply under powered for system setup .. alway's consider the future requirement's ... we only install 550w unit's in new pc's .

3 : Cpu shutdown's from overheating is normally associated with either a poor performing fan / heatsink combination ... but is more common with faulty heatsink compound .

Use the new silver compound's only , not the old heat grease as used on the old p1's , as newer cpu's produce too much heat for the old heat grease to handle .

For those under warrantee , amd will , from england , ship out the replacement heat tape free of charge ... I know becuase I couldnt get this anywhere in australia .... not sure of intel , you will need to ask them ...

4 : Bad memmory ... from all report's so far , this is not the issue you have with your pc ... in some case's , the issue , esspecially for del system's is the memmory slot's require cleaning .

As with all connection's on pc being one metal or another , metal is affected by corrosion , again , by one form or another .

Del pc's are a nightmare for there memmory slot's failing ... clean them with an approved cleaning solution only ... hospital grade achohol will do , available from chemist's as well .

5 :

We now get to the nitty of the os problem's on your pc .

You mentioned having the pc repaired after a power surge , and that the pc run's fine without you doing anything ...

This is your problem .

Do a google search for INSERT.ISO , download it , burn with nero .

It is a rescue disc's I used all the time to test hardware on pc's ... it's biult around linux and free utilities for the pc .

Run the hard drive test's , all of them ... your file system (the hard drive) , has corruption ... xp by default mark's these as bad area's and prevent's them being written too ... you may very well have corrupted specific system file's that where running at the time of the power surge .

If none of the tool's find a problem ... there wrong , but they report the drive appear's to be ok ?

Repairing system file's is impossible without a complete reinstall of the os .

But consider the power surge first , if you do intend on reinstalling the os ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mentioned your floppy dosent work ... another common problem ... so how to get about ...

If you have a friend with windows 98 , borrow this cd , remmember in bios to set it to boot from cd first .

Google search for the following item's and add thes to another cd ...

Format.com (updated from windows 98/me)
"fix's support for large hard drives"

Fdisk (updated from win 98/me)
"fix's support for large hard drives"

Delpart (for removal of ntfs partition's)

Burn these to another cd .

Handy tool for xp is called ghostburn , a free burning solution that supports bootable cd creation .

---------------------------------------------------

1: boot pc with 98 cd ...
2: choose boot from cd .
3: choose , boot with cd support .

Now insert you cd with those updated file's .

To run delpart .

You are at a:\

Type D: (if cdrom reported as another letter , use that letter)
Hit enter .
You is at D:\ (or your drive letter)

Type depart , hit enter .
Delpart will show ... ntfs partition's , in your case "unknown" listed .

This unkown is proof all is not well with the hard drive after power surge , even though system seem's running fine .

Press DELL key , press Y key , hit enter .
Hold down ALT key , press F , use down arrow key to pick "save" .
Press Y , hit enter .
Hold ALT , press F , choose exit .

Done ...

Turn the pc OFF .

--------------------------------------------------------------------

If your os is a rescue disc , you are restricted under xp to use ntfs partition , your out of luck , but you have the most convenient setup possible , it's quick and fast ... insert xp cd , and follow the prompt's , and you will be up and running in no time .

For those with full os , follow here to setup xp with fat32 partition's ...

After 10 second's turn pc on ...
Reboot as done using 98 cd before , to get to dos mode with cd support .

Repeat step's as associated with getting to delpart ... but
This time dont type depart , type FDISK .
Say Y , hit enter .
You now choose 1 .

You will now proceed to create a new partition on drive ...

Choose size , it is recommended that you say N , max size for fat32 is about 32gig ... for the uninitiated , do so .

Note : using the new updated format.com and fdisk , now allow's for partition's of greater size under fat32 condition's ... no problem's with 80 gig fat32 partition's here .

Ok , follow the prompt's till new 32gig partition has been set .
If you have more space , setup another partition , only this time , this partition will be an extended partition ... choice 2 or 3 in menu .

If more space , setup another ... agian it is an extended partition , so either choice 2 or 3 .

3 partition's is better , more can be made , but newbie's can get lost quite easily ... so dont create more than 3 .

When done , choose option that say's make partition bootable ... not sure , going of my memmory here at the moment .

Alway's partition 1 .

When done , hit ESC ... bang , you is back at dos prompt in most case's .

Turn pc off , wait 10 second's , and repeat the windows 98 , with cdrom support again ...

---------------------------------------------------

This time you will type FORMAT C: , hit enter , press y , hit enter , and wait .

If you now have 3 or more partition's , you must also do these ... like

D , is second new partition on hard drive , so you type FORMAT D:
E , is third , so type FORMAT E: ... and repeat as formatting C .

When done ... you eject cd , insert xp cd , reboot , go through install process ... but choose the option to install xp on the hard drive partition that say's "leave it as is" ...

Many program's and game's mention while they will / may run under ntfs partition's , they may have issue's ... as they were developed for fat32 partition's in mind ... avoid such headaches in the first place ...

------------------------------------------------

It's the long way round , but it is the only way to force the partition table's into brand new condition ...

Should system again return symtom's ... consider the controller on the hard drive partially defective , and return under warrantee for replacement ... though power surge affected unit's are not covered ... in this case you need to purchase a replacement ...

In au , if system was on a power board (pc - powerboard - wall socket) , those that have power surge protection with $$$ offer on equipment effected .

New home's now by law have these installed in the main power board where the power enter's the home ... you still must have a power surge board for the pc ... you are nutts not to , consider those like dick smith's power cube ($39.00 au with phone line protection + $25,000.00 equipment protection)

You can ask your electricity supplier to check the distance from your home to where the strike accured ... normally the warrantee say's must be outside a five kilometer distance (measured by line distance , not radius of area affected) ... if outside distance , get copy of report , signed , and fill in warrantee report for repair's to equipment affected by surge .

How long it take's the company owning the power surge board to respond is ... well , hell might freeze over first ... get in touch with fair trading service's in your country if nothing happen's after 6 week's ...

Put the bomb up them with reporting matter's to aca ... in au it's A current affair's on channel 7 ... maybe they will get interested in doing a story ... there is enough user's out there already affected system's ... it certainly get's matter's moving ... been there before ...

Do not touch western digital ... faulty controller's (set to master to fix)
Matrox , alway's format drive using the above perscribed method ..

Formatting matrox's my way dose resolve heat issue's , the drive's run much cooler .... unknown why this happen's ... dont get time too pull them apart these day's .

More knowlede is available , but my brain is now exhausted ... coffee time ...

What I dont know about pc's ... has yet to be invented ...

[Nelson37]

So you recently had major surge damage requiring significant parts replacement? Did you think that would not be pertinent to diagnosing a further problem? Do you remember when I asked you to DETAIL all problems and stated how frustrating doing this online was because most people leave out critical details?

WHEN was the surge damage and WHAT parts were replaced?

Get an APC surge protector. No disclaimer, no void of warranty. I live in the lightning strike capital of the world, southwest florida. PC can take Direct Hit and APC will cover you for fair market value. Get one.

Once a PC has taken a major hit, it is much like a car engine that has been seriously overheated. There may very well be unseen damage that is not immediately obvious. At a certain point, you chuck the whole thing and start over. $400 worth of damage is past that point for most PC's.

[Squid_uk]

[quote="Nelson37"]
WHEN was the surge damage and WHAT parts were replaced?
/quote]

Sorry again everything in the system was changed CPU, Motherboard, PSU, Harddisk and the memory, basically the only thing that was good was the shell!

BJS just to clarify are you saying that i should try all of the thing you have listed and then see what happens?

[Nelson37]

Anything connected to power that was in the surge-damaged PC is suspect and should be disconnected. Such Hardware can cause a multitude of strange and unpredictable behavior. I do not see the floppy drive, which I understand is not working, listed as a replaced part. Ditto the CD-ROM drive. ANYTHING repeat ANYTHING that was in the damaged PC should be disconnected from power AND data AND audio, at least for testing purposes.

Have you replaced the DATA cables to all drives? Cheap, easy to do, and yes, you bet your ass a power surge could damage a data cable and either destroy it completely or damage it and cause a very similar problem to what you seem to be experiencing.

The evidence seems clear that you are having various errors reading the hard drive, and/or corrupt files. Start with the drive and work outward. Need other PC or other drive, Isolate and Identify is the key. One test would be to disconnect the HD completely, boot from a CD, and just let it sit. Ideally running some processor task.

The Norton test was not to test for virus, but to boot from a different disk and access every file. You did this, goodie, was this AFTER the machine began to fail or not?

Bad files could be coming from bad HD, bad power, bad MOBO controller, bad cable, or bad original source. Several files, it is not source. Could be Virus, but Safe Mode test virtually eliminates that. Ordinarily bad cables would be low on the list but if they were in the surge-damaged machine they would zoom to the top of the list.

After replace cables and run Norton, also defrag and Chkdsk, I would pop out the HD and put it in another PC as secondary drive in place of CD. Run original machine without HD while running continous diags on suspect HD on the extra PC. Almost anything doing continous file access will do. Defrag, Antivirus and anti spy, chkdsk or scandisk, play a movie. Keep both PC's going for at least 24 hours.

If the PC with no HD resets, you have some heat or short-circuit issue.

If the HD shows an error of any kind, it should still be under warranty. Replace it either way. Might still be usable as a secondary storage drive, with files you would not mind losing one every now and then. Do NOT copy anything from it except pure data, NO PROGRAMS, re-install all of these, be prepared for data to be faulty.

If neither of these happens, put the drive back in and re-install Windows.

I assume you have R and R'd the power and data cables to the suspect hard drive to make sure they are tight? Also try a different power connector as they sometimes have a bad solder joint, aggravated by a tight fit? Who put the new parts un the box?

[free is better]

i know you said the psu was replaced but download and run speedfan. it will show the voltages the supply is putting out while the computer is running as well as cpu temp. watching this until the moment the computer reboots may shed some light on what is happening.

[Squid_uk]

Do a google search for INSERT.ISO , download it , burn with nero .

It is a rescue disc's I used all the time to test hardware on pc's ... it's biult around linux and free utilities for the pc .

Having trouble finding this,

Can anyone help?

[TaoTeWingChun]

Refine your search to something like:

"insert.iso" boot cd

You will find it, trust me.

Cheers!

TTWC

[Squid_uk]

ok managed to find the INSERT.ISO but having a problem using it, burnt the iso to a disk then reset and boot from CD, comes up with a white screen with info bout the program and also command prompt that say boot: i didnt notice this at first and just left it and i started to do something that looked like scanning files it then stop and just reads somelike choose bootspeed or some thing similar that involves a number i think (sorry at work at the mo so cant check).

Is this correct or do i need to input something to make it run correctly?

[Nelson37]

IMO, you are not equipped to run a Linux diagnostic program and this is a bad idea.

You have failed to confirm whether or not the floppy drive and CD have been replaced from the surge damaged machine. You have failed to confirm whether or not you have removed and replaced the power cable and both ends of the data cable to the hard drive. You have failed to confirm whether or not you have replaced the data cable to the hard drive.

Are we noticing a pattern here?

You can use a systmatic process of Isolation and Identification which is tried and true and guaranteed to produce accurate results.

Or you can simply try a multitude of random suggestions, sooner or later you will arrive at the solution by pure dumb luck.

I have given several courses of action which if followed, would have pinpointed the problem by now. You are either unwilling or unable to carry them out. That is, of course, your option.

[Squid_uk]

Sorry it has taken so long to get back but nelson was right i can no longer use the machine, it packed in completly yesterday so it no off to the insurance company again to see if they will pay for repairs!

Just want to say thanks to all you guys that put in your time to help!