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  1. Member
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    Howdy,
    First of all I'm new here and in my few days of lurking have found it a great source on info.
    Now here's my problem. I had a Sony RDR-GX300 that I used like one would use a VCR. Simply to tape movies and TV shows from cable, that I was unable to watch at the time. If a movie was on at 4AM on HBO, I'd record it then watch it later, or if I was watching The Learning Channel and needed to run to the store before the show was over I'd start the recorder and play it back when I got home. That's what you do with recorders right?
    Well last week my Sony died on me and since then I've had 3 burners and ALL of them gave me COPY PROTECT messages when I try to tape a show or movie. None of them would record anything from any Premium Channel (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime,....), others wouldn't even tape TLC or Discovery. One wouldn't even tape from the Food Network.
    I could go the TIVO route I guess but I really like the option of burning a movie I like to a disc to watch again and again.
    Does anybody out there know of a new DVD recorder that will tape all cable TV stations? One that ignores whatever COPY PROTECT info that is sent along with the broadcast? I know my SONY copied anything but they don't make that model anymore.
    Please help me. This is maddening.

  2. Member
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    I don't know which recorders have you tried but I can share my experience so far. I have Cablevision Optimum cable service. I've tried recording, playing and ripping recorded disks on PC without problem on the following recorders:

    Liteon 5006
    Memorex 2002
    Magnavox MVR660
    Coby DVDR1200 (not recommended)
    GoVideo VR1940 (Liteon guts inside)

    I tried with HBO, Disney and few other non premium channels.

  3. Member
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    Thanks for the response. Maybe I should have specified that this is not a PC recorder. It's a stand alone unit, like a VCR. I'm not set up to record off my computer. I wish I was.
    Thank you though. I appreciate it.

  4. I don't have a DVR yet but am considering a purchase sometime this year. I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

    I can't understand why manufacturers feel they need to do this. VCR's have always been protected under fair use. Am I not already paying a monthly subscribtion fee for personal access to channel content? What if I want to record something because I'll be at work and won't be home to watch my favorite shows?

  5. Member
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    is copy right protection only on digital services like satallite and digital cable? B/c I taped from HBO and all that from my standard under the ground cable service with no problems. Is it macrovision technology they use?

  6. Will the Macrovision hacked DVD recorders be able to record these "premium" cable broadcasts? Someone with a hacked DVD-R and premium HBO please test.

  7. Member thevoelk's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, my unhacked Samsung DVD-R120 seems to ignore the copy protection fomr HBO, Cinemax, Starz!, and Showtime when recording, both directly from the tuner or after saving it to my DirecTivo. I've used both -RAM and -R without issue.

  8. I have no answers, but I though I would share that this just pisses me off.


    Darryl

  9. Member
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    Strange. Last night I recorded the last 15 minutes of the 9PM "Miami Ink" on TLC, then at midnight I wanted to tape the whole episode,.....but got the COPY PROTECT message. I'm guessing that Cox Cable blocks ALL recording after a certain hour. I tried taping every channel last night, ABC, CBS, FOX, ESPN, PBS, etc,......EVERY channel was blocked from recording. Snake, I think you're right. I think it's only the digital cable signals that carry the COPY PROTECT signal. I'm calling Cox Cable today to find out why THEY won't let me record shows.
    I really need to find a DVD recorder that ignores these blocking signals.
    It's not illegal to record movies from cable.

  10. I can't wait for their response.

  11. Banned
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    Originally Posted by pinetop
    I can't wait for their response.
    My Cable provider (Time Warner) has this to say:

    Q: I was unable to create a DVD copy of a program that I watched on my Digital Cable Ready TV. What happened?

    A: As a part of the regulations for Digital Television technology, the FCC has mandated “Copy Protection” of digital content. This Copy Protection mandate allows programmers to determine which programming can be copied digitally by the end consumer. If you are unable to make a digital copy of a program that you watched on your Digital Cable Ready TV, the programmer has applied a copy protection directive to that particular content. Copy protection directives may be “copy never,” “copy once,” “no more copies,” or “copy freely.”

  12. Dear consumer, since it is within the law, we thought we'd say "**** you."

    Darryl

  13. Banned
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    You can not solely blame the provider because it's the producers and owners of the content who determine which shows can be recorded and which can't. Ironically or is it coincidentally(the two seem to get confused on this subject) the content owners pushing for these protections are the ones selling you equipment to record their shows.

  14. Banned
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    Markenstein - I once lived in an area where Cox Cable was the only game in town. God help you, my friend, because Cox Cable certainly will not. Do you remember that evil thing called something like "Syndex" in the early 90's? It allowed local stations to prevent distant stations, also available from the same cable company, from showing competing programming at any time. For example, your local station might have, say, _The Simpsons_, available only on Saturdays at 7:00 PM. Another station available on your cable but 100 miles away might show _The Simpsons_ Monday through Friday at 6:00 PM The local channel had the right to tell your cable company to block _The Simpsons_ so you couldn't watch it on Saturday, even though they weren't showing it then, because they had "syndicated exclusivity" to show it to you since they were your neighborhood affiliate. Cox blocked everything they could when Syndex hit. Cox has ALWAYS been anti-consumer. Please please please find yourself another way to get your TV (satellite? another cable provider?) and do not give those worthless #@$% at Cox more of your money.

    One of Cox's more interesting tactics where I lived was that they would seriously undercut cable prices on their competition to drive them out of the market. They would sell the cable to customers at such a low price that the competitors would leave the market because they couldn't match the rates. Once Cox was alone, they would jack up your bill to more than make up for any discount you got and since you had no more competition, you were screwed. This was in the days before there were small satellite dish providers like Direct TV and Dish Network. Great bunch of guys at Cox.

  15. Originally Posted by ROF
    Originally Posted by pinetop
    I can't wait for their response.
    My Cable provider (Time Warner) has this to say:

    Q: I was unable to create a DVD copy of a program that I watched on my Digital Cable Ready TV. What happened?

    A: As a part of the regulations for Digital Television technology, the FCC has mandated “Copy Protection” of digital content. This Copy Protection mandate allows programmers to determine which programming can be copied digitally by the end consumer. If you are unable to make a digital copy of a program that you watched on your Digital Cable Ready TV, the programmer has applied a copy protection directive to that particular content. Copy protection directives may be “copy never,” “copy once,” “no more copies,” or “copy freely.”
    I guess everyone has to decide if they want to pay for premium/digital cable services if they are going to be very limited in how they use those services.
    How does one identify those recorders that are severely limited in their functionality by responding to these cable signals. I certainly do not want to ever purchase a hard disk/dvd based video recorder only to find I cannot time shift watching programs with it. Is this limitation clearly identified on the equipment packaging?

  16. I know that all SONY brand equipment will NOT record these "copy protected" programs on cable. Remember, SONY is the company that would install a ROOTKIT (invisible to virus protection) program on your PC if you even PLAYED one of their Sony artist's CDs in your computer. There is now a number of lawsuits over this from corporate America.

    SONY is BALONY! Don't buy SONY. Yes, most manufacturers may follow, but for now, SONY is the WORST!

    Other DVD Recorders may be hit and miss with this. This is why I bought a LiteON with a Macrovision hack available. I can eaily copy my old VHS tapes. It also records everything on my Dish network channels, but I don't have any "premium" channels, so maybe those are different. I'm still wondering if the MV hack that lets me record VHS will let me record any premium content.

    Anyway, for those units that WON'T copy these, there should be a disclaimer on the box, or TAKE IT BACK AND DEMAND A REFUND. The whole point of buying a DVD Recorder is to "time shift" like with a VCR, which you CAN'T DO WITH A SONY. I bought one, discovered this, and returned it for a full refund. It was NOT FIT FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE therefore returnable for a full refund under consumer protection laws.

    I'm happy with my LiteOn, and it now has the MV hack in place so hopefully it will record premium content should I sign up for any movies in the future.

  17. Originally Posted by Rob61
    Anyway, for those units that WON'T copy these, there should be a disclaimer on the box, or TAKE IT BACK AND DEMAND A REFUND. The whole point of buying a DVD Recorder is to "time shift" like with a VCR, which you CAN'T DO WITH A SONY. I bought one, discovered this, and returned it for a full refund. It was NOT FIT FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE therefore returnable for a full refund under consumer protection laws.
    Everyone should do this just to send a message to the manufacturers and retailers. When "defective" recorders start stacking up at the returns counter they may start paying attention.

    And Cox? In the last few months they've started dropping P2P traffic, their newsgroup servers drop about 20 percent of the binary content (making them useless for binary downloads), and now they propogate the no-copy flag in thier digital video content. (Note this is NOT a legal requirement. The FCC requirement to include the flag was struck down by the courts.)

  18. Member
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    It seems strange that cable companies would implement the broadcast flag at this time. They certainly aren't required to do so by law. The Senate Commerce Committee just had hearings on Jan. 24, 2006 about whether to implement the broadcast flag at all, and the "Digital Content Protection Act of 2006" (crafted by Sen. Gordon Smith) is still a "discussion draft" that has not yet even been introduced.

    The FCC's attempt to implement the broadcast flag was struck down by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals last May, so it can't be the FCC.

    Just out of curiousity, I recorded while I went though every channel available on DirecTv (I've got everything you can subscribe to), and there was absolutely no problem recording any channel.

    Maybe cable subscribers should vote with their wallets and switch to a satellite provider.

  19. Member
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    Originally Posted by Markenstein
    Thanks for the response. Maybe I should have specified that this is not a PC recorder. It's a stand alone unit, like a VCR. I'm not set up to record off my computer. I wish I was.
    Thank you though. I appreciate it.
    Those all are standalone recorders (like a VCR).
    The PC part I was referring to, was taking the DVD recorded in the standalone and ripping it on PC to get the raw MPEG file.

  20. I record TV through my PC, so I don't run into any of these 'Copy Protect' errors. If I can watch it on my PC, I can record it.

  21. Member wulf109's Avatar
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    VCR's are analog and I would guess they would be immune to digital copy flags. DVD recorders are of course digital and will be triggered by these digital flags. I wonder if hackable Lite-on/Ilo recorders would work? I know they turn off macrovision but do they also turn-off digital copy flage?

  22. Member
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    Hey, you guys are AWESOME. I was worried if I'd get anybody's attention or not with this thread, but I see there's many of you out there who also think this situation SUCKS
    Jman - Countless times I've noticed them (Cox) not playing scheduled shows from other cities stations,....now I know why. Those jerks. I'm calling them today to give them an ear full.
    Darryl - When I talk to Cox today, can I quote you? AWESOME!
    Rob61 - Strange, because my old SONY that just died on me, taped everything all the time. However the new SONY (which I propmtly returned) taped NOTHING!
    Darius - I'll look into those ones you mentioned. They might do the trick.

    To the others who asked - NO! Companies DO NOT label their products with any warning that they are COPY PROTECT sensitive. They would never sell a single unit if they did.

    I guess the cable companies will only let you view their broadcasts when you have time to sit in front of the TV. In my case it's about 2 hours a day, yet I pay for 24 hours. Since I can't record anything, I'm paying for 22 hours of TV that I can't watch. That's BUNK

    I agree, if you buy a recorder that will not record digital cable, then return it and tell them it won't do what it's intended to do, even if it's the cable provider who's the root of the problem.

    Thanks to all who responded, and please if you have a burner that is recording digital signals with no error's, please let us know the make and model number.

    Thanks all! , but still

  23. Originally Posted by jman98
    Do you remember that evil thing called something like "Syndex" in the early 90's? It allowed local stations to prevent distant stations, also available from the same cable company, from showing competing programming at any time.
    That's not Cox's fault. They are legally required to do that if the local station requests it.

  24. Member
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    Well I just got off the phone with Cox Cable and when I asked her why I can't record off TV she told me that my DVD burner is faulty. When I told her that I've tried 3 different burners in the last week, she couldn't very well say they were all faulty, so she handed me off to a supervisor. This guy said it wasn't their fault. He said the STATIONS add the blocking signal that gets sent to them and they then pass to the customer. This might be true, probably is true, but then he tried to sell me the DVR package they offer. You can rent from them a DVR that has a hard drive and it tapes EVERYTHING. He couldn't verify if the DVR could be hooked up to a DVD burner, enabling you to keep a hardcopy before deleting from the hard drive. I told him I had other options than just Cox Cable but he said that satelite broadcasts will carry the blocking signal too, and that I really need to sign up for the DVR option right now. I told him that I was already unsatisfied with my service and before I pay more money to Cox Cable I'd like to look at my other options such as Satelite TV or finding a DVD Recorder that ignores the COPY PROTECT orders.
    He then hung up on me.

    Still the result I seek is to find a DVD recorder that doesn't recognize these blocking signals.

    Just a thought,....when more and more people start buying these new model DVD recorders and attempt to record "The Tonite Show" because it's on too late, or record their favorite shows because they're on vacation,......only to find they do not have those privileges, what do you think their collective reaction will be
    I bet you I know

  25. ( dariuszr ]

    Noticed your first post and the units listed (all standalone)
    Also your last post.
    I don't think your reference to LiteOn was noted
    I have two ilo RHD04, that will record anything. They take the place of a PVR, DVR etc.
    I have seen an increasing use of a recording flag and other CP, not only on cable but all providers including satellite. I have an older Apex player that will ignore MV but not other CP
    I dont know about that Sony model but I suspect it may be a rebaged LiteOn. Sony doesn't make very much themselves. Their to busy with their copy Protection schemes.


    [ Rob61 ]

    Your post is right on.
    SONY is Crap

    So far the LiteOn/ilo , has been non compliant for, I feel for all present CP,including flags. Many of the later units by Liteon cannot be or are difficult to hack and seem they may be compliant.
    The problem is not the general brocast programs but many other programs they dont want you to copy especially to a disk

  26. Member
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    Originally Posted by LCSHG
    I have seen an increasing use of a recording flag and other CP, not only on cable but all providers including satellite.
    I have not seen, even one time, the use of any copy protection of any kind on DirecTV. That includes all channels, including local, basic, premium, and specialty packages (NFL Sunday Ticket, Playboy, etc.).

    Obviously, ALL providers are not dabbling in the black arts.

  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    It's not the recorder, it's the cable box outputting crappy quality signals (not visibly crappy, but signal crappy). At least this is what it usually is, trips up a recorder like a bad tape would (also missing any anti-copy, just a real error).
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS

  28. Member maldb's Avatar
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    Gaetting back to your original issue, I too encountered this problem awhile ago. I use my DirecTivo unit to record certain programs then transfer them to my standalone Toshiba DVD recorder. I didn't have a problem until a few months ago, so I went to my local Best Buy where they had a sale on a Sima copy breaker for around $100 - I connected it between my DirecTivo and DVD recorder and voila! No more copy protection problems. I can now transfer everything.

  29. Since this "protection" technology for digital broadcasts is fairly new, the old Sony units (from many years ago) would not have it. However, it seems that all NEW SONY units are prohibiting anything with protection flags, Macrovision, etc. They are the WORST of the bunch, so I suggest you avoid anything with Sony on it. By the way, the Sony I purchased AND RETURNED was a new unit and would not record anything with MV so I couldn't back up my VHS tapes. However, my LiteOn 5005 with the MV hack can let me LEGALLY by FAIR USE back up my VHS tapes. I'm still waiting to try recording "premium content".

    Now, satellite is digital. However, the stream I'm recording off the S-VIDEO jack is analog, not digital. I don't know if the "copy flag" which is part of the digital stream is encoded into the analog signal sent to my TV or my DVD Recorder. Perhaps it is transferred into the Macrovision type protection of the analog signal coming out the S-Video jack, not sure about that. However, I doubt you can send a digital copy flag (one or two bits in the digital stream) through the analog signal unless some conversion to analog protection (ie Macrovision) is done. I'm hoping the LiteOn will eliminate this with the hack. However, as others have pointed out, a simple device (I find them for as little as $20) can remove MV type protection.

    With the digital stream (as we go all digital which is what the manufacturers want - more profit and more control for the content creators) we will probably see new tools. The reason I DIDN"T buy the DVR option from satellite was because there is NO WAY to back up to a DVD disk (again intentional by design). With the DVD recorder I end up with a disk I can keep or throw away. I just need a unit that will record whatever I'm paying for in the satellite service.

    Now, once we go all digital, someone will create a bitstream buffer that will strip out the copy protection word (or byte, it only needs two bits from what I've read) so you will be able to set it to "off" as it streams to your devices. Also, software running on a comptuer will do it as well, so you can simply write it out to your blue ray, or whatever technology is being used at that time. But analog signal TV in the US is not being phased out till 2009, and even then, the digital boxes will probably offer for some time analog (composite type) outputs for older equipment.

    Happy hacking!

  30. Member
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    I believe what I'm hearing here. I do think that "they" ultimately want us to be unable to record anything they put the MV tag on, and DVD Recorder manufacturers will comply and make all their models COPY PROTECT sensitive. They're already doing it. Countermeasures (filter boxes, hack codes,...) will need to be taken.
    I started this thread by mentioning that I had a Sony RDR-GX300 that recorded everything and anything but it broke and every replacement I tried was MV sensitive. Well some of you might not like my solution, but I managed to find a Sony RDR-GX300 as a floor model at my Best Buy, so I bought it (for cheap). Now I again can tape any show/movie off my digital service, so I'm good till this thing breaks (probably with in 1 year).
    After that I'm sure I'll again be searching for a recorder that ignores MV signals.
    I'm very much curious about this "Sima Copy Breaker". What is it? Is it intended to strip the MV code out, or does it serve some other function and the filtering is merely a happy accident?




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