If one hour a week-month of fresh programming is worth $14/mo ($168/yr) to you then go for it.Originally Posted by ROF
Back when HBO had Sopranos, Sex in the City, 6ft Under, etc. or something original several times a week then it seemed worth it. Now that I've seen all their rotational reruns and now that I have other options, HBO seems to be a total ripoff.
Besides, the good series (Lost, Boston Legal, GA, Invasion...) are now on ABC plus there's 24 on Fox.
Sopranos is tired. The plot line is predictable. The FBI is closing in, they will be in defensive mode and try to convert to legit activities. Then they will discover that new opportunities abound and start growing again from the inside. Series over. Is that worth $168?
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Hi Guys,
Facing same issues as posted here, I recently bought a modified DVD recorder, the Liteon 5005x, with a built-in copy protection remover. I'm very happy with the purchase. Records premium channels or any DVD/VHS. The same company provides also a copy protection remover device (The Videographer) that does the same but installed externally. Amazing products...
LINK DELETED
Ocean
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Ocean, does this Liteon5005X tape cable movies, such as from HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, etc,...?
I'm not too concerned with copying from VHS to DVD. I just want to be able to record from cable, any movies or shows that I will be unable to watch at the time they're run. If this unit does that, I'll buy it.
Where are you located, and do you know where this "barrel-of-monkeys" located?
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I'm having a hard time understanding this thread but I'm sorta joining in late. CPRM as I understand it, is passed as a flag in one of 3 modes: copy always(free), copy once or copy never. I also understand HBO employing copy never flags on PPV and VOD due to the very nature of those offerings. HOWEVER - THE ORIGINAL POSTER IS IMPLYING THAT COPY NEVER IS BEING PASSED ON ALL DIGITAL BROADCASTS FROM HIS CABLE SUBSCRIBER INCLUDING NETWORK BROADCASTS. NOT THAT I DOUBT YOU BUT THIS IS HARD TO BELIEVE. Are you sure these are not copy once flags being passed vs copy never. My recorder will record copy once flagged programming on DVD-RAM or DVD-RW (VRO Mode) - at least according to the user manual. My cable company (Comcast) does not currently pass CPRM flags in our community so I cannot test this. Timeshifting allowed under Fair Use Laws should afford dvd recorder owners the right to record any digital form (excluding previously mentioned PPV and VOD) for viewing later (copy once flag). This would restrict making copies and would limit retention period due to media nature but still afford time-shifting capabilities of viewing.
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I am the original poster, and I don't know about the "copy once", "copy never", flags,.......But I do know that I was unable to copy ANYTHING from my digital cable. No Learning Channel, no Discovery Channel, no FOX TV, no Food Network, etc.....I went thru my cable lineup trying to tape ANYTHING and the new SONY recorder was telling me that I was trying to tape a copy protected program, thus I was unable to do so. My cable company said they could do nothing about it and that it was probably a faulty recorder. SONY said that it was my cable providers fault and that if I'm getting that message it's because it's part of the broadcast.
I took the recorder back to the store and picked up last years SONY and it taped EVERYTHING. No problems taping HBO, Cinemax, Showtime,......any movies, TV Shows, etc.
So I'm set for now,.....till this unit breaks. Then I'll be looking for a new model, and that Liteon 5005 looks pretty good.
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I hope I did not offend you - that was not my intent. I'm just trying to figure out what your provider is doing because if Comcast pulls that trick I'll be very angry.
My question is - What were you attempting to record on? DVD-R - If so what mode DVD-V or DVD-VR? I have absolutely no experience with a Sony recorder and previously stated how my recorder operates with Copy-Once material. Again - this is theory only because my provider passes no flags currently. I can record anything including PPV if I wish.
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More attempts to stop home recording. Recently the MPAA claimed nobody ever had the "right" to tape shows (any content) under fair use. Several days later, it is announced that some providers are no longer going to use DVR where the "client" holds the info (a DVR that has a hard drive to hold content). Instead, the content will only be held on the "server" (the provider's computer) and streamed to you when you select to view it. Video on demand, but you can only "store" a program on THEIR server to stream at a later date thus allowing you to "timeshift".
I suspect this is being done to protect content from ever being recorded which is their ultimate goal so they can sell you more stuff (you used to record with your own boxes) on whatever media is being used (DVD, Blue-Ray, HD-DVD etc). It is no coincidence that they are arguing against home recording (challenging the fair use provision) and at the same time trying to remove recording devices from the home. Trust me, you will be paying more and more for what you used to timeshift for free. They do not want you to ever own any content unless you buy it on released media.
This will be the new model for the years to come. You will pay for the right to view content but they do not want you to actually hold data in your home. Basically they see it as someone who pays to go to the movies... you pay to view the material, but can't replay it at will.
While some argue vociferously that nobody ever had the right to record/timeshift broadcast material, the intent of fair use was there. It specifically prohibited "rebroadcast" of the material, but it never tried to prohibit the person to view it themselves at home. This is all heading to court in an attempt to challenge what fair use means. Don't expect it to help the consumer as today's governmental body here in the states is decidedly pro business without any regard to the consumer.
Let's hope that the fair use laws (to allow for timeshifting/backup for personal use) will be upheld and new technology still permits consumers to record material for personal use. A lot of self serving business interests will be working overtime trying to figuring out new ways to prevent this from continuing to be an option for consumers.
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You only have a few precious years left for analog transmissions.
I personally don't see what all the uproar is about. So you can't permanently archive TV shows anymore. It was never legal to do so in the first place and is a major factor in why there is now broadcast flags. I can understand those upset about not being able to time shift like they used to, but again you can't blame the content providers. The people to blame are those who have habitually abused the time shifting paradigm. It has often been said the innocent suffer because of the guilty. That's the case here. While you may have always obeyed the law, your neighbor and your neighbors neighbor didn't.
The only programming so far I've seen with copy protection is pay-per-view and dedicated movie channels. I can surely understand why they'd not want you to be able to record these.
Timeshifting should be allowed and I like the idea about the providers storing my time shifted programming on the server side. This should allow more freedom to record not only cable broadcasts, but also extend to recording pay-per-view and dedicated movie stations.
The broadcasters could then add flags to "copy never" to everything while leaving the possibility to "record always" to their server. That should silence most of the people here since you would be able time shift any broadcast and be able to watch it at your convenience. You would not have to fear that you might be casually violating the law since you wouldn't be able to record to any media inside your home.
The only ones who would continue complaining would be those who wanted to violate fair use with their illegal recording of broadcast material.
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I'm guessing ROF is fairly young. He has bought into the BS the Movie studios are trying to sell us. It , proves that if you repeat the same thing over and over eventually people will believe it.
The Supreme Court ruled on the publics right to record TV shows back in the 70's. This "HBO" issue has nothing to do with the law. There is no law that prevents HBO from inserting an anti-copy signal into it's programing.
However, this signal only works if the recorder is designed to pay attention to it (remember, Sony owns a movie studio).
Yes, I have the right to record whats on TV, but if my recorder is designed to listen to the anti-copy signal, I can't record. Nothing to do with any law.
There are DVD recorders that ignore the signal, again, not against the law (unless you've been brainwashed like ROF). Sony's pay attention to the signal partly because Sony owns MGM. It'd be quasi conflict of interest if they didn't. But it's not due to any law.
There is a law requiring a firewire connector on cable boxes right now specifically so we can copy TV programs. Why is that not piracy? True, I can't record HBO through that connection, but that's HBO's decision, and they're free to do that if they wish.
Some of you need to step back and watch whats happening to your rights and use your brains rather than accept the propaganda they're trying to feed you. Otherwise one day you may wake up and find you need to ask AT&T for permission to go to the bathroom.
Piracy as relates to music and movies used to mean someone who made copies of copyrighted works and turned around and sold them for profit. Now it means soccer mom's who's kids listen to music obtained from the Internet. Not the same thing but it's been drilled into our little heads so much that many people have accepted it.
When I was a kid we got our music from the radio and could tape it to a cassette recorder if we wanted. We were kids, not pirates.
Getting back to the original post, all you can do is search for a recorder that ignores the anti-copy signal. I would expect you'll have more luck with the lessor known brands, as they typically will have less ties to the entertainment industries.
ROF, I suggest you Google Sony, Betamax, and Supreme Court.I don't have a bad attitude...
Life has a bad attitude!
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ROF, you should really consider staying out of these types of threads.
While you may have some interesting, valid or relevant points, they often get lost in your "YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF CRIMINALS AND THIEVES!" tirade.
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As much as I disagree with ROF's extreme interpretation of "fair use", I would oppose attempts to limit his right to speak. Just challenge him directly on his points.
The final say is with the legislatures and supreme courts in the various regions and finally with the consumer.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
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Hee-hee This is awesome!
SickPup, no offense taken. None whatsoever I was just restating my original post, maybe clarifying and stressing the problems I was having.
I have this to say, if these cable networks will not let us timeshift, and DVD recorder companies will respond to the MV flag, then I will not buy another recorder AND I will cancel my cable subscription. I won't pay them $100 a month to watch 2 or 3 hours of TV a day. Shows like LOST will be,....well LOST, because if you miss one episode you,....will,...be,...
unable to follow the series
This pisses me off, but if this is the way THEY want to go, I will completely lose interest in TV.
Oh Pup, I'm recording on a standalone SONY with DVD+RW discs. It's possible that your provider IS passing the flag but your recorder ignores it. Like I stated earlier, I would have never noticed my provider was using copy protect if my old SONY hadn't broken and the new replacement was unable to copy anything.
AT&T,......can I go to the bathroom now?
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The companys will soon see that consumers disagree with the (opt-in) copy-protect flag.
Originally Posted by edDV
Originally Posted by leebo
*that is not a right on this (or any) message board.
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If you recall, the FCC mandated that all video recording hardware respond to the broadcast flag as of June 2006. The requirement was struck down by the courts in early in 2006 because it was ruled the FCC had no authority to issue such a mandate.
Given the long lead time in manufacturing, in all likelyhood what's happened is that the PVRs on the market now were all designed with the FCC requirement in mind and there was no time (or inclination) to change them before they hit the shelves.
As it turns out this could become a great experiment that the industry would never have conducted on its own. Everyone who gets one of these recorders should return it and make it clear why. That will send a very strong message to the manufactures, the broadcasters, the studios, and Congress. Especially Congress who has the authority and is considering mandating the broadcast flag.
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Some of you need to step back and watch whats happening to your rights and use your brains rather than accept the propaganda they're trying to feed you. Otherwise one day you may wake up and find you need to ask AT&T for permission to go to the bathroom.
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As a TIVO owner (2 of them) and subscriber to DirecTv, I recently came across a couple instances to opt-in/subscribe to some new services.
About a month or two ago CNET pushed video reviews of new technology (around 5 to 15 minutes of video) to TIVOs that opted-in for them.
You could watch them and delete them. That's it.
They wouldn't transfer to another TIVO on a home network, nor be allowed to play&save to a vcr.
Now, another little service called Rocketboom does the same exact thing.
The only thing I have to say about that - Lousy.
I cancelled the subscription shortly after seeing it.
If the industry thinks this is what I (we) want - they shouldn't be surprised when I switch off all this hardware and take it back for a full refund.Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)
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Originally Posted by Phantom Of The Opera
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To BobK:
If you are familiar with TIVO menus, when looking at the Now Playing screen (of recorded shows) you then click on one of them to determine what you want to do with that program.
A screen comes up with selections to Play, Delete, Save to VCR and gives general info about that show (date stamp, channel, length, rating, and some summary of the show, etc.).
On this screen you have any special icon(s) that indicate the channel logo and whether this epsiode is marked for early deletion or other controls.
The connections on the back of the TIVO allow for hookup to a vcr.
And now I have had these two experiences to show that they have integrated their own protections (probably dependent upon the firmware revisions that occur over time) to prevent using those vcr rf connections at will. A special icon will be present in these circumstances along with a short text message indicating you can only watch this program or delete it.Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)
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Originally Posted by leebo
The problem is that most people don't even consider it piracy when they archive a television show. They believe as you do that as long as they aren't making a profit from the recording it is their fair use rights to do so.
That's is a popular misconception of fair use laws that hopefully broadcast flags will eliminate. The only ones left to complain will be those who have wrongly believed fair use covers them in whatever they choose to record.
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