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  1. Member maldb's Avatar
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    The Sima unit is the GoDVD! CT-200. You can buy it at Office Max for $80 or Circuit City for $100. It's stated purpose is to be used as a "stabilizer" when you transfer your VHS tapes to DVD. However, they have a dsiclaimer stating it's not meant to be used to infring on copyrights, etc. The usual legal baloney. Basically, it's the easiest solution to your problems - albeit a little more expensive than what you would have liked. You can also get the model below it, the CT-2 for around $70 at Amazon.

    I believe every DVD recorder now has copyright protection - when they receive a signal from a cable/satellite/VCR/DVD source, they won't record - plain and simple. It happened with my old Panasonic, and it happened with my new Toshiba.

    You'll have to invest a little money to get what you want, but in the long run, it'll be worth it. Good luck.

  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Markenstein
    I believe what I'm hearing here. I do think that "they" ultimately want us to be unable to record anything they put the MV tag on, and DVD Recorder manufacturers will comply and make all their models COPY PROTECT sensitive. They're already doing it. Countermeasures (filter boxes, hack codes,...) will need to be taken.
    I started this thread by mentioning that I had a Sony RDR-GX300 that recorded everything and anything but it broke and every replacement I tried was MV sensitive. Well some of you might not like my solution, but I managed to find a Sony RDR-GX300 as a floor model at my Best Buy, so I bought it (for cheap). Now I again can tape any show/movie off my digital service, so I'm good till this thing breaks (probably with in 1 year).
    After that I'm sure I'll again be searching for a recorder that ignores MV signals.
    I'm very much curious about this "Sima Copy Breaker". What is it? Is it intended to strip the MV code out, or does it serve some other function and the filtering is merely a happy accident?
    I disagree almost 100%. Hacking isn't the answer. They have more options than you.

    The proper response is to return products and educate the store manager and retail Regional Manager why this is necessary. Complain, make a stink and cancel subscriber services if this is happening. If you are bound by contract, then delete extra cost options to make the point. Ignor the first level and demand the manager.

    Cable/DBS suppliers do want to keep the $1000-1500 that you pay per year. Most have a retention group (a higher level of sophistication) that will cut deals but you can use them to pass your opinion upstairs. Above all they want to avoid a mass defection movement but that is what they are facing.

    If the "protection" is happening on a show basis, complain directly up the chain to the broadcaster, cable/dbs company and to the show distributor. Hold them accountable and again make it unpleasant for them. Print their responses across the net. Hold their feet to the fire.

    The ulimate pressure point is Congress but here isn't the place for political action.

    I have to say that I have not seen this happening on Comcast, but when it does, I will be prepared to respond with a priority.
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  3. Member
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    Information about digital broadcast coping has been out there at least six years. I first read about analog vs digital recording in a Windows NT reference book. It even quoted the source which said you could record any ANALOG signal as and do what you ike with it as long as you do not make a profit from it. It went on to say laws (then in their infancy) were being proposed which would make it illegal to copy digital signals. This was about the time P2P and the movie copyright issues were coming into the news. Over the years, I just assumed we would not be able to copy digital signals.

    I'm not sure if we're talking about the Digital Information act here but I just read in a Linux journal that we are actually in violation of the law if we view a copyrighted web page as we have not made a copy of that information on our screens. Laws were also cited which would make it illegal for a tape (or DVD) recorded in a household (two parents and two kids) to be viewed by one of the kids when moved off to college because the tape was recorded by the family unit and the child was no longer part of the family unit. Simply put, if its recorded at home it has to stay at home.

    The recording industry be it music or movies has strong pull in Congress and there are lots of little laws like those above which will probably never be enforced - but they could. IMHO, its not as simple as taking a machine back or changing providors. We need to be aware of what laws are being passed in concert with what industry is doing. I personally see this as protectionism on the part of the recording industries and our government seems happy to help. What was fair use ten years ago with analog is being eroded and is certainly not the same as what we have with digital information. The laws which protect digital content are much stricter than those covering analog. I personally think we're being pushed to buying ditigal for a couple of reasons. 1) we can't copy it (legally). and 2) we have to buy new equipment. The bottom line - money.

    BTY I pulled out an old VHS tape that I recorded about six years ago and tried to copy it to my LiteOn 5005 so I would have a much longer lasting copy. I got a "copy protect" message and the recording would not continue. I have not gotten this with other old tapes. Recording off of analog cable (I don't have digital) has not been a problem with this machine either. I actually tried this on two different LiteOn models and got the same result. I didn't expect it and haven't pursued it as the program came on cable a few weeks later and I have a much cleaner copy.

    Thanks for hearing out my rant and rave. I agree that taking back machines on the basis of fair use and expected function will get someone's attention. The machine functions are within the constraints of current law and the legal scenario will probably not improve. I think these functions will become more limited and we need to look to the real source of the issue.

    IMHO
    V. Abrego

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    I've got a couple of typos - sorry, I should have proofread.

    Thanks
    V. Abrego

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    edDV- I hear where you're coming from , and I agree with you in that your plan would/might force the manufacturer to deliver the product the consumer demands. In fact in one of my previous posts I state that as these older recorders die out, and people buy the new ones and realize they can no longer record from the TV, we might just see the manufacturers taking notice. Believe me, I've returned 3 units in the last week and let the salespeople at Best Buy know EXACTLY why I was returning them and how disappointed I was. In addition I called the manufacturer and let them know as well, that I will be returning their product because it's of no use to me, and their recorder does not record.
    However, while we as a collective work to change the world, I still want to record from TV, so I still think filter boxes or hacks are the way to go. I might add here that I know NOTHING about hacks, but heard that they might work in bypassing the MV signal.

  6. I think people's complaints are being heard. This week in the Best Buy Sunday ad, there were 3 DVD Recorders advertised, and in the ad it stated "the recorders on this page will not record copyrighted material". I bet there has been some returns/complaints that prompted Best Buy to ad that to the advertisement, I hadn't noted it before.

    Not yet the case with CC, but that will soon follow. What I find disturbing is this trend to "protect copyright material" when before we were allowed to timeshift and make personal backups. This was mostly rewritten OUT with the digital millenium copyright act, or whatever they called it. Some of the incredulous effects of this are just now being felt.

    We are not talking about DISTRIBUTING content (I can understand that), but simply time shifting or backing up copies we paid for. I don't think people should accept the fact that the content providers have strongly lobbied congress to pass a piece of onerous legislation that prohibits us from doing so. It bothers me that, while there are ways to get around the current methods (hacks), it makes us criminals because we only want to do what we were legally entitled to in the good old analog days. (fair use - thank you President Nixon).

    The voice of the people have to reach congress, when they are back from their expensive vacations paid for by Hollywood and other special interest groups, and let them know their voting constituency wants our rights to time shift and back up our goods restored to what they were when analog technology was used.

    Why should it make a difference whether the delivery mechanism changes? So its digital instead of an analog signal... why should that limit our rights as consumers? We don't care what method of delivery is used.

    Anyway, it is only going to get worse before people really start to rally round the recorder. By the way, you can time shift IF YOU pay extra everymonth for the DVR "feature" of satellite. But why can't I own and use my own timeshift device? I should not have to be forced to use the one the satellite company wants to force on my and have me pay everymonth to use. Its cheaper owning my own time shift device.

    So while this is not a political forum, it is going to come down to people fighting back against the onerous laws (especially the digital copyright law) and demand our right to timeshift using our own devices instead of having to pay the company for their technology. It wasn't like that before with analog/VHS and the delivery mechanism should not matter.

  7. The DVD Recorder industry is not going to get anywhere, if they keep prohibit ing people from copying digital TV broadcasts. The VCR would have been a disaster too if people couldn't record their favorite shows. The industry needs to re-think what they are doing.

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    Darn good points Rob61, and Wile_E I completely agree. I might add here that when I called LG and told them that I was getting COPY PROTECT errors and was unable to record from TV, they told me that it was because their recorders are made for recording home movies.
    I doubt we'll see THAT in their ads

  9. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Complain loudly and often.
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    I don't see what the problem is. I have something around 300 channels on my digital TV and there is rarely anything good on a single one of those stations. Of course, there are a few stations I think need to be relabeled. I have one station in particular that's called Music Television. I don't know if you've noticed but I know I hear more songs on talk radio than on that music television station.

    Television recording is a thing of the past. You can complain all you want but it's not likely to change. Content protection is the wave of the future. If you want to re-watch television you're going to have to buy the disc.

  11. Here is an optimistic possibility . . . .

    All this ridiculous attention being paid to preventing folks from copying broadcast television signals is because the quality of the content in the future is going to be so good everyone will want to keep it.



    OK - I'm going back to my book now . . . .

  12. Originally Posted by ROF
    Content protection is the wave of the future. If you want to re-watch television you're going to have to buy the disc.
    What about the more mundane broadcasts, like Holiday parades/specials, tributes to people, award ceremonies, New Years celebrations, etc. These things won't ever be broadcast again, nor will they ever make it to DVD. They should always allow people to record these type of broadcasts. Otherwise they will be lost forever. This is like throwing away our history! Some Recording Studios did the same thing years ago, throwing away master audio tapes in the trash. Lots of good audio recording classics were lost forever! This is basically the same thing. IMO, whatever is broadcast to the public, should be free for anyone to record and share with others.

    I have a lot of VHS tapes with broadcasts that will never be shown again nor are they on DVD. I'm glad my parents and I recorded them. I find it fun and interesting to go back and to view these broadcasts. Lots of history in even the most mundane broadcast!

  13. Originally Posted by ROF
    Content protection is the wave of the future.
    No. It isn't!

    Originally Posted by Wile_E
    What about the more mundane broadcasts
    What about seeing yourself at a game? Or your kid at a game?
    The rights need to shift back to the customers.

  14. Member painkiller's Avatar
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    Wile_E makes a very good point (wish I said it).

    I have several tapes of historical events such as Breshnev'z (?) funeral, other newsworthy events such as a collection of lies as put forth by numerous presidents of both parties. Even some 'mundane' political Sunday shows - for history's sake.

    Does anyone here even suppose that, perhaps, DC politics is one primary reason behind this new trend of no longer being able to copy/save/timeshift television?

    Do they REALLY want the public to forget???

    I think so.
    Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)

  15. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by painkiller
    Wile_E makes a very good point (wish I said it).

    I have several tapes of historical events such as Breshnev'z (?) funeral, other newsworthy events such as a collection of lies as put forth by numerous presidents of both parties. Even some 'mundane' political Sunday shows - for history's sake.

    Does anyone here even suppose that, perhaps, DC politics is one primary reason behind this new trend of no longer being able to copy/save/timeshift television?

    Do they REALLY want the public to forget???

    I think so.
    A form of mind erasure.

    I like to keep a record of political analysts *always* getting it wrong. The daily news agenda seldom stands up to time.
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  16. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    If that's what the industry wants, there's no use for a dvd recorder since it won't record...except to backup old tapes without mv

  17. Member
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    Originally Posted by zoobie
    If that's what the industry wants, there's no use for a dvd recorder since it won't record...except to backup old tapes without mv
    You forgot home movies.

  18. Member
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    Is this what we are looking for. I don't have the problem yet but this should solve it when I do.
    http://www.facetvideo.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=83&cat=0&page=1

  19. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    where's the digital in/out?
    must be on the front

  20. Member painkiller's Avatar
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    To Cahusker:

    No, sorry, that's not it. That box will deal with analog signals only.
    Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)

  21. Member
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    Originally Posted by painkiller
    To Cahusker:

    No, sorry, that's not it. That box will deal with analog signals only.
    Thanks, I think this is the one someone else mentiond earlier in the thread. http://www.officemax.com/max/solutions/product/prodBlock.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&prodBl...OID=-536907165

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    Originally Posted by Wile_E

    What about the more mundane broadcasts, like Holiday parades/specials, tributes to people, award ceremonies, New Years celebrations, etc. These things won't ever be broadcast again, nor will they ever make it to DVD. They should always allow people to record these type of broadcasts. Otherwise they will be lost forever. This is like throwing away our history! Some Recording Studios did the same thing years ago, throwing away master audio tapes in the trash. Lots of good audio recording classics were lost forever! This is basically the same thing. IMO, whatever is broadcast to the public, should be free for anyone to record and share with others.
    There are alot of people who agree with your opinion however the law seems to differ with your opinion. A broadcast is not free. You pay for the right to receive the broadcast. You do not have a right to archive any television broadcast or share it with others. Timeshifting is different but it isn't something you can keep indefinitely or share with others. Timeshifting also is not something you are entitled to. It's a nice idea but it's not something the manufacturers or content producers have to guarantee you with.

    For the record, I don't necessarily agree with all this, but it is a fact that quite a few people have been archiving television broadcasts simply because it's in the privacy of their own home(casual law breakers).

    Broadcast flags stop those people from continuing with their illegal actions, but in turn it makes those of us who simply wish to timeshift "the bachelor" frustrated because we receive a message about not being allowed to record this signal.

  23. Member painkiller's Avatar
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    To Cahusker (again):

    Even that piece of equipment is dealing with analog signals through it - not digital.

    Just so you know.
    Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)

  24. Member
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    Originally Posted by painkiller
    To Cahusker (again):

    Even that piece of equipment is dealing with analog signals through it - not digital.

    Just so you know.
    So what is the answer for everyone with this problem? Is there one? Yet?

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    Originally Posted by cahusker
    Originally Posted by painkiller
    To Cahusker (again):

    Even that piece of equipment is dealing with analog signals through it - not digital.

    Just so you know.
    So what is the answer for everyone with this problem? Is there one? Yet?
    As per the original poster who was trying to record HBO at 4AM and found that it was copy protected, everything on HBO is either already on video or soon will be. You can purchase a copy at your local media outlets or order it through them.

    Simple solution to getting what's on HBO is to visit your media store.

  26. Well I think this broadcast flag will be hacked sooner then later. Probably 5 years from now, you will be able to walk into a Radio Shack store and buy a small device to counter this situation. All that needs to be done is to create a device that plugs between your cable box and the coax line coming into your wall. The device would intercept the signal and replace the flag with a "copy all" flag. This would tell all your devices that you can copy the signal. Easier said then done, but eventually someone will do it. You can bet a lot of people would buy it too.

    This has to be stopped. It's ridiculous. I'm not for pirating music nor movies. But I want to be able to record shows for personal use and for archiving.

  27. Member painkiller's Avatar
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    Well it finally started - officially.

    http://connectedhomemag.com/Blog/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=49398&#Comments

    February 14, 2006 | Paul Thurrott | The Connected Home Tech Blog
    HBO Gets Case of Stupids, Will Try to Prevent DVR Recordings

    People with TiVos, Media Center PCs, and other digital video recorders (DVRs) are probably familiar with (and fretful over) the ability of TV networks to lock down digital recordings with a technology called broadcast flag, which lets them restrict DVR owners from copying recorded TV shows to other devices, such as PCs, laptops, iPods, and the like. Well, HBO wants to take that technology a step further by flagging its shows so that DVRs can't record them at all. The technology, which is aptly named Copy Never, would be applied at first to HBO's on-demand offerings, then to everything the network offers. Why would HBO do such a thing? Because the company wants to make a buck every time you watch any of its content. And this leads me to think that a) HBO doesn't get it, and, b) I will be canceling my HBO subscription immediately.
    Whatever doesn't kill me, merely ticks me off. (Never again a Sony consumer.)

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    I don't know about you but HBO on demand allows me to watch any movie on the HBO on demand for the entire month at any given time and as many times as I want for one low price. I don't see the need to record these movies because if I can't watch it within those 30 days I guess it wasn't worth watching.

    HBO is definitely starting out right in this respect. Rather then start with COPY NEVER on their 8 other channels they are just doing this on the On Demand thing. I dare say most people who record from this 30 day unlimited access On Demand service are probably archiving the movie or show in which case they are violating the law. It's a violation of the law to archive television. Always has been. Always will be. The broadcast flag is intended to enforce this law since quite a few consumer think it's their right to record any broadcast into their household. Remember when you buy a DVD it the same thing. You own the DVD not the content. Same goes with your broadcast bill. You own the right to view it, not archive it.

    The broadcast flag will have minimal impact upon those who do not casually break the law.

  29. Member edDV's Avatar
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    "The technology, which is aptly named Copy Never, would be applied at first to HBO's on-demand offerings, then to everything the network offers. "

    There is very little good on HBO these days. The series are better watched from rental DVD. I seldom tune HBO anymore because it's all reruns or movies that I have already seen on DVD. HBO HD is more than half upscaled SD.

    I've been considering dropping HBO anyway and using the $14/mo savings to get more Netflix DVD in rotation.

    I think a mass cancellation of HBO would deliver the message.
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    Originally Posted by edDV

    I've been considering dropping HBO anyway and using the $14/mo savings to get more Netflix DVD in rotation.

    I think a mass cancellation of HBO would deliver the message.
    My family would never go for it, plus the Sopranos is coming back.

    There is only one thing that beats Sopranos on disc and that's Live never been seen before episodes.




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