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  1. I'm not trying to get into a big Mac vs PC discussion here. That being said...

    I am on the fence trying to decide between getting some kind of Mac vs building another PC for video editing work. I originally got interested in getting a Mac laptop because I have an interest in doing some in-the-field digital audio work. And now that I've dabbled a bit with PC video editing, it is clear to me that I'm going to need another computer to handle time-consuming mpeg2 video encoding. I don't mind letting a machine run overnight; but, I need to be able to use a computer for other things while encoding is taking place.

    I've checked out several forums/articles on Mac vs PC discussions--looking carefully for entries which are geared specifically toward video editing. Most of the time, the discussion dwindles down to religious statements, with VERY little supporting facts. (I don't know how many times I've seen people say, "the Mac is better for video editing. It blows away the PC.")

    One reason I'm considering a Mac is because of the "lack" of Mac viruses that typically seem to pester these machines, as well as comments by many folks that say that Mac's generally don't crash as much as PC's. (By the way...does it seem to anyone else that most of those folks who complain about their PC's crashing don't take care to maintain their PC's--even a "little bit"?)

    I have little free time and do not want to spend it maintaining a PC. I built the computer I'm using now for video work and am pleased with Tmpegenc's results. I keep it clean, install Win patches, am careful where I download software from, and do several periodic scans to keep the peskies away. My PC hardly crashes, even when I'm doing video stuff.

    I have been to a couple of Mac stores to try out Mac's. Most recently, I tried the fastest iMac (with the Intel Duo CPU setup) that I could find. I took my own camcorder into the store, shot a short (1-2 minutes) video and did some cut-editing. I then tried encoding to mpeg2 (with iMovieHD, I believe--whatever it was, it was Apple's own software.) Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't profoundly impressed with the speed--I expected it to be quite a bit faster. The interface was "okay," and I definitely would have a get-used-to-it curve to deal with. I wouldn't say that I was "blown away". The experience was "okay."

    Most of the video work I would be doing would be converting home-video camcorder tapes (VHS, 8MM and HI8) to DVD. Editing would mostly be cutting out scenes. I wouldn't be applying a lot of effects--if any at all. I will likely be archiving my footage to DVD (using DVD's as data discs), and producing watchable DVD's for family and friends. I have several tapes now, and conversions will be ongoing in the future.

    I would also very much like to have the capability to do real-time MPEG2 encoding. There will be times when this will be very handy. (On paper, it looks like LaCie's Fastcoder would handle what I want to do.) If I end up building a PC, it will likely have a Happauge(sp?) PVR card in it.

    I don't mind too much spending more money for a Mac--as long as it works. (And, for the kind of money that they cost...it really better work!) I'm also not hard-and-fast tied to using a laptop, but it's the direction I'm leaning in, especially since the newer models wisely included optical audio in and out jacks. I am somewhat open to a Mac tower.

    As soon as my local Apple store has a MacBook Pro, I'm going to go check it out.

    One more thing...is anyone familiar with MS Publisher? My wife used to use it for making greeting cards. Is there a program out there for Mac that is as easy to use as MS Publisher, for making cards? Program suggestions? (PLEASE state if you have used the program that you're suggesting, and for how long you've been using it.) Of all the Mac stores I've been in, none have had Print Shop for Mac loaded on so that I could try it. (Pity too, 'cause it might influenced my deci$ion--are you listening, any Mac store owners?)

    I would like to hear from anyone else who has switched from PC to Mac for video editing work, especially given the number of video PC programs, video cards, etc., that there are to choose from.

    Thanks in advance, for any suggestions, advice, tips, etc.
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    You captured your video with iMovie HD and then used iDVD to encode and author the video DVD. iDVD is glorious for its menus, but that also slows down the encoding process. If you do choose a Mac you should consider getting Toast 7 for video DVD creation and for spanning the data DVD's you want for backing up the original video. Go to www.roxio.com to learn about Toast. It isn't at all like Roxio's PC applications.

    I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIe so I can't help you with the comparison to a PC.

    As for greeting card apps PrintShop is highly regarded but I haven't used it. Here is a link to some reviews: http://www.mackiev.com/tps_reviews.html . Also, you can read user comments here: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23205

    To enjoy Macs you need to get into the integrated nature of its OS and applications. What you lose are the thousands of other ways to do what you want. For example with video editing you are likely to use iMoive, Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro. For DVD authoring you're likely to use either iDVD, Toast, CaptyDVD or DVD Studio Pro. I'd hate to try to list all the PC apps that do this.

    As for the LaCie FastCoder, it certainly will do real-time MPEG encoding. But you might also consider getting a standalone DVD recorder that has a Firewire link. I have an older Pioneer DVD recorder (DVR-510H-S) that can burn DVDs in real-time from iMovie via Firewire. I'm also able to import the MPEGs from DVDs burned by the Pioneer into Toast 7. It's an option to consider.

    If you do choose to go with a Mac there's lots of help available here and at Apple's discussion forums.
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  3. Apple Compressor MPEG encoder which comes with FinalCut Studio works faster then real time for MPEG2 encoding on dual G5's...MainConcept PRO encoder too..

    Regarding workin on Mac...Worked on both platforms..Personally, I think Mac OS is MUCH better...Easier to use, looks nicer, everything is more logical and designed much better...Look and feel are important to me...And as you allready said its more stable then windows..
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  4. Member terryj's Avatar
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    I've played in Sony Vegas recently on a top Dell,
    and I can say for a PC app, Sony is following
    Apple's studio lead, and is bundling a really nice
    package.

    But that being said, what the person paid for their
    souped up PC, with the full Sony Vegas Suite installed,
    they would have come out cheaper on a Mac bought
    bundled with FCE.

    as for your situation, I would say go and test out
    at the Apple Store an iMac G5 with Final Cut Express
    and see if that is to your liking. It will will have
    a bit of a curve for you, but I think you
    will find it more intuitive and that for cutting home
    movies, you'll find it perfect.

    And yes, you want Compressor or Main concept to do your
    video encoding. SO MUCH BETTER than iMovie handing
    it to iDVD and letting iDVD try to mux to Mpeg-2.
    So for that, you'll want to movie into Final Cut Pro 5,
    asFCE does NOT come with Compressor.
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
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  5. frobozz...Thanks for the info. I should have specified that I'm looking to do XP (i.e. 1hour length)-quality MPEG2 real-time encoding, but I'd like to do it such that I'm not limited to the 1 hour limit that often comes with this recording speed. In other words, as an example--I'd like to have the capability to generate an XP-quality MPEG2 file from an 8 hour tv program. (Granted, this is an overkill example, but I use it to demonstrate the idea.) And, just to make it clear, typically with a set-top DVD recorder, you get recording speeds like XP, SP, LP, EP, etc. When I say XP here, I'm referring to the highest quality, shortest-record time setting.

    I have a Samsung DVDR-120 which I haven't yet tried for this, but I'm pretty sure it will do what I want. But, again, I will, at some point, run into the 1-hour barrier. Capturing/converting to mpeg2 onto a hard drive should let me overcome the 1hour limit, provided, of course, my hard drive is big enough. I'm not too concerned on the recording/authoring end about fitting what I want onto a DVD...I shouldn't have a problem cut-editing what I want to fit. My main objective is quality.
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    FastCoder is a hardware accelerator for MPEG2 encoding, but AFAIK you *cannot* capture video in real time and have FastEncoder encode it on the fly. I believe FastCoder works on pre-existing .mov files. FastCoder will not act like a DVR or PVR. It has no video/audio inputs and no tuner.

    The Elgato EyeTV 200 *will* encode incoming video to MPEG2 on the fly, and you can specify custom bitrates up to 15 Mbps (for "archival" recordings). So you can choose a bitrate that will give you XP recording quality, and *in theory* there should be no limit on recording time, provided you have the hard disk space. However, EyeTV stores MPEG2 recordings inside a proprietary file format. You will need to export them to standard MPEG2 files before you can author them. This does not lose any quality, but does increase your disk space requirements, and takes some extra time.

    For cuts-only editing of the MPEG2 files, you could use either:

    - MPEG Streamclip (freeware, but requires the Apple QuickTime MPEG2 Playback Component for OS X - $20 download from the Apple Store)

    or

    - Capty MPEG Edit EX (payware, around $50)

    StreamClip lets you edit to GOP accuracy. Capty MPEG Edit EX is supposed to be frame-accurate.
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    Originally Posted by troublechuter1
    frobozz...Thanks for the info. I should have specified that I'm looking to do XP (i.e. 1hour length)-quality MPEG2 real-time encoding, but I'd like to do it such that I'm not limited to the 1 hour limit that often comes with this recording speed. In other words, as an example--I'd like to have the capability to generate an XP-quality MPEG2 file from an 8 hour tv program.
    I can do just that with my Pioneer DVR-510H because it has a built-in hard drive. But that puts the MPEG on the DVD Recorder and not on your Mac so I can understand why you'd want to use a different method than a standalone recorder.
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  8. pianoman...that's good information. Thank you very much. I suppose I got the impression that it would do on-the-fly encoding from the wording of the information (found on the website) and also the fact that it has a DV connector. I have a Sony Handycam with Firewire and USB ports and my preferred method of doing transfers is firewire.

    It seemed to me, then, that if the device has a firewire connector on it, that I should be able to feed it "DV" data and have it spit into the Mac the MPEG2 data that the Mac needs to construct an MPEG2 file. But, now that I think about it more, it makes sense to me that, with only one firewire connector on it (am I right about that?), the device must be fed with DV data (from a file on the Mac), but then the device must then turnaround the MPEG2 data and feed it back to the Mac over the same firewire port.

    Since I am thinking mostly of getting a Powerbook and running large external firewire drives...even if I were to try using Fastcoder (1 firewire port), a firewire drive (another firewire port), and the Handycam (1 more firewire port), I would be out of firewire ports in order to make a capture-convert-to-MPEG2-write-to-hard-drive scheme work with this device.

    Obviously, I'm just sort of thinking out loud here. Does any of this make sense?

    I will probably look into the Elgato device. Thanks again!
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    To convert raw DV footage to MPEG2 on the fly doesn't make sense to me. Usually you would want to transfer your DV camcorder footage to the computer, edit in DV format, and only encode to MPEG2 when you're done editing. That's because DV is a versatile editing format, while MPEG2 is cuts-only.

    As I understrand it, FastCoder only works on DV footage from your hard drive. "Real time" means if you have a 5 minute DV file, FastCoder will encode it in 5 minutes. Anyway, Bob Hudson did a brief video tour of FastCoder which you can download here:

    http://www.bobhudson.com/FastCoder/

    You say you'd mostly be converting "camcorder tapes (VHS, 8MM and HI8)" - so are you digitizing them with a DV converter box? If so, think of the Elgato EyeTV 200 as a *replacement*. With the Elgato your VHS, 8MM and HI8 tapes would be coded *directly* to MPEG2. (The Elgato has audio/video inputs and a tuner.)

    It's partly a question of knowing how much editing you want to do. If you just want to do quick cuts-only editing, you'll get better quality by using something like the Elgato and keeping the MPEG2 first generation. But if you need to do heavy editing with transitions and titling, you may be better off bringing in the footage in DV format.

    Key point is every time you re-encode to a new format, you lose quality. If you go from your source footage directly to MPEG2, and then just do cuts-only editing, your final DVD can be very high quality.

    By the way, I agree that Mas OS X is pretty stable compared to Windows. YMMV. Having one cheap PC for Internet use, and a better one for video work that never goes on the Internet is another strategy. Best of luck!

    -Pianoman
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  10. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    These days, the differences between Mac, Linux and Windows are more imagined or related to user error/ignorance than anything else.

    They all crash. They all have viruses/trojans/spyware/malware. Anybody that says otherwise is living in a fairy tale land not found on the planet Earth.

    I'm one of those people who considers computers tools, nothing more. No video games, no fanboy ego, nothing. Just a tool I use, no different than a hammer or shovel.

    Linux systems, though you did not ask, I wanted to mention. They are complex, and it can really hinder your productivity if you're not super-techie.

    Macs are no longer anything special. OS X crashes just as much as Windows XP. There are viruses, etc. It's not immune. From a video perspective, the only thing really valuable on Mac is DVD Studio Pro, far surpassing the authoring abilites on a Windows system (including my favorite Ulead DVD Workshop 2). Final Cut Pro is not much different from Adobe Premiere, available on Windows. Mac systems are more expensive than comparable Windows systems (do NOT compare to the uber-nerd "latest and greatest" Windows setup, it's not the same type of system). Mac editing tends to be geared for DV editing only, it has holes in aspects of video work, limited software there. Most of the good software is geared for small-time pros, while consumer software is extremely limiting.

    Windows can pretty much do anything you want, in terms of video work. There are lots of tools, some free, some paid, for many aspects of video. It goes from dumb-as-a-monkey level to professional level. This means more choices, so choose wisely when buying. Vegas is a decent choice, though I prefer Adobe Premiere for an NLE. I tend to avoid those "packages" from Adobe or Sony (or whoever else). I prefer to pick my tools one by one. I buy lawn tools as I need them, I don't buy "sets" which may included things I don't need or won't like.

    It's not hard to avoid problems on any computer. Just don't be stupid and click on unknown links, open/save unknown software, or agree/OK without reading. Do not be like Homer Simpson, who clicked on a link that he won $1M and a pink elephant needed him to enter his credit card account. On Windows, Kerio Firewall is free ($15 for web-filtering edition), AVG Anti-Virus is free, Spybot S&D is free, HOSTS Secure is free, and Ad-Aware is free. Also consider using Firefox browser instead of MS Internet Explorer. These all keep your Windows computer safe, barring user error.

    When it comes to computers crashing, I have to say it's usually because people load all sorts of software, and don't maintain their system. And the most typical problem is people run computers for days, weeks or month without rebooting or turning them off. Computers need to be off when idle, and they need to be rebooted to refresh the RAM and temp RAM (paging file, virtual memory, whatever). Back to yard tools, ever tried to rake up leaves without stopping to pull some out of the blades at least once?

    I use PC and Mac both for video. They each have their uses. For business use, Mac tends to be pretty nifty. For home work, you're better of with a Windows pachine.

    You also do not have to use a computer capture card. Consider a good DVD recorder (like a JVC DR-M100S) and then use it like an external capture device. Transfer MPEG video off a DVD-RW (which you can re-use) and then edit and author menus on the computer.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  11. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    OS X crashes just as much as Windows XP. There are viruses, etc. It's not immune.
    Really? Name one.
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  12. Id also like to hear about the virus'

    again not to get into a heated discussion, but my OS very very rarely crashes ( I think you mean frieeze up?)

    anyway, these were constructive questions.

    and the interface is so much more intuitive.

    rotuts
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  13. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    They all crash. They all have viruses/trojans/spyware/malware. Anybody that says otherwise is living in a fairy tale land not found on the planet Earth.

    ... And the most typical problem is people run computers for days, weeks or month without rebooting or turning them off. Computers need to be off when idle, and they need to be rebooted to refresh the RAM and temp RAM (paging file, virtual memory, whatever).
    Lordsmurf:

    While I highly respect your opinions on S-VHS, standalone DVD recorders, etc., claiming that OS X has viruses/trojans/spyware/malware destroys your credibility on Macs.

    Likewise, OS X is Unix-based and works very well when left on all the time (so that the maintenance scripts can run). On a Mac laptop, rebooting helps since the maintenance scripts don't get run properly when the laptop is sleeping.

    I would only advise the DVD-recorder > edit on computer route for use only on a PC... the tools for this on the Mac are poor and few.

    As for the original question - if you really want a laptop, you'd probably be better served with a Mac due to the integrated software and hardware features - you'll have fewer problems with FW, dropped frames, etc. - but you'll also have fewer choices with software.

    In general, I think that most hardware MPEG converters these days will do a better job than typical software encoders, but the better software encoders will allow more "tweeking" with noise reduction than typical hardware.

    I use low-end Macs for video-to-DVD conversion, but also have a Lite-On LVW-5006 DVD Recorder. For simple conversion and cutting of footage, most DVD recorders with a HD and simple editing will get the job done, but the VR disks will have crappy menus and so-so DVD player compatibility.

    I use a Canopus ADVC-300 to clean up and capture analog video as DV into iMovie on an old (c. 1999) 400Mhz iMac DV. I then edit in iMovie, add chapters, and save to an external FW drive. I then burn the movie to DVD with iDVD overnight on my wife's old (c. 2003) 1Ghz eMac. I've done about 50 hours of personal footage and 150 hours for others (mostly family and friends who gave up trying to do this on their PCs) with this set-up over the past year and have not made a single coaster. I've only had one crash (kernal panic) in three years on OS X - when I tried to export DV out of iMovie to the Lite-On (but I even got this to work by using a sample app from Apple's FW SDK instead of iMovie - BTW, exporting to tape from iMovie through the ADVC also works great).

    The ADVC-300 does a noticably better job of DV conversion than my MiniDV camera and Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge...and is very "tweekable."

    Since you said that you don't mind burning overnight, why not skip looking for real-time MPEG conversion and go with the best tool for editing and authoring?

    BTW, something to consider is that Apple's Pro apps won't run on Intel-Macs until March and you will only be able to purchase the apps as a suite (they will have a $50 cross-grade for existing app owners). see this link
    http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1472
    If the iLife apps can do what you want (I find that they do), they are a great deal since they come free with new Macs.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I use PC and Mac both for video. They each have their uses. For business use, Mac tends to be pretty nifty. For home work, you're better of with a Windows pachine.
    Really? I remember when people thought just the opposite. I don't see how this statement is supported in your post. Why, if one is better at work would the other be better at home? Personally I'd hate to be using different applications at work than I use at home to do the same thing (e.g. video editing).

    Since we're discussing this in a Mac forum I won't be shy about saying I like the way the Mac OS is designed and how the applications fit within that design. It suits the way my brain works better than when I use PCs. If there were no Macs, though, I'd have little difficulty getting things done using Windows. To me, the decision of which way to go is partly budget, partly the applications that are available to do what I want, partly the need to be in common with co-workers, and partly what feels most comfortable for creating great work. The applications and the comfort for me are strongest for the Mac while the other factors aren't that big of a deal in my situation.
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  15. Yeah - I agree w/ Frobozz - the typical wisdom is that PCs are better for work (where you have an entire IT staff to keep them running) and Macs are better for home due to easier networking (AirPort, BonJour), lack of malware, lack of need for MS Access DB (not avail. on Mac version of Office), etc.
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  16. Member terryj's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf


    Macs are no longer anything special. OS X crashes just as much as Windows XP. There are viruses, etc. It's not immune.
    smurfy,
    first let me stop ROTFL at Your post, not specifically at you my friend.
    *cough*
    ok, ....wait ...*giggle*....ok.."ahem"...

    In the days of OS9, sure, there were trojans.
    Nowadays, there are NO virus/worms/trojans in the traditional
    sense of " Oh, this Macro will raid your address book
    and email thousands of people" or " Open this file,
    which is supposed to be a valid system patch, and watch
    it destroy your apps folder" or my new favorite, "a malicious code
    is in this [file type], which your OS's intergrated browser can't handle
    by itself, so be careful of [this file type] from Grandma."

    What we get on the Mac platform are instead what i call
    fubars.
    Where say, like QT 7.03 was a fubar by the QT Develeopment team.
    or OSX 10.2.5 or OS X 10.3.4 system patches were fubars
    by Apple for not passing compliant FW specs to 3rd party
    FW drive manufacturers BEFORE release.

    FUBARS, not VIRUSES or WORMS or TROJANS.

    A worm, and a virus doesn't exist, for the mac,
    and yes i live right next door to you smurfy on
    good ole terra firma. Trojans exist, but none
    have been made or targeted for OS X.


    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    From a video perspective, the only thing really valuable on Mac is DVD Studio Pro, far surpassing the authoring abilites on a Windows system (including my favorite Ulead DVD Workshop 2).
    on this, we agree, and I've never even used Ulead.


    Mac editing tends to be geared for DV editing only, it has holes in aspects of video work, limited software there. Most of the good software is geared for small-time pros, while consumer software is extremely limiting.
    let's clarify: Mac NLE's are DV format,ie Standard Definition (SD)
    not HDV format, or High Definition Video,
    specific, but are NOT geared to work only with DV Streams
    as the video container of choice. the fact that FCP prefers
    and re-encodes imported DV into Quicktime spec, while iMovie keeps
    the same in DV Stream spec, makes this obvious.

    As for the software being limiting, YMMV, but "limiting" is subjective
    to the individual person, there latent ability/know-how/tolerance
    for all things techie, and money ( a nod to pianoman's and I earlier
    conversation in the week.) A person who wants to simply make
    an "Auto Play" DVD of their kids b-day party may find iLife 06 a dream.
    An independent filmmaker on a budget may find it a somewhat
    daunting for not being able to make "Tony Scott" like jump cuts,
    but would make do with iLife 06 and FCE.

    A "Walter Murch" type editor would only be happy in FCP Studio.
    *shrugs*

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I tend to avoid those "packages" from Adobe or Sony (or whoever else). I prefer to pick my tools one by one. I buy lawn tools as I need them, I don't buy "sets" which may included things I don't need or won't like.
    And certainly you can agree that MAYBE, just MAYBE, by doing this
    you end up here....?

    When it comes to computers crashing, I have to say it's usually because people load all sorts of software, and don't maintain their system.
    I mean, say what you will about Packaged "studio" NLE programs,
    but if you follow the directions, meet the standard specs, and install
    the Studio, everything 99.9% percent of the time works right out
    of the box. Integration between apps isn't just a marketing gimmick,
    Apple hit is square on the head with "Suite" style apps ( taking a page
    from M$ and Office), and it's HARD to fault that.

    Yes, you can mix and match, but if you mix and match, you should be prepared for what that will bring. Trying to use FCP and iDVD together
    may not be the best solution because one doesn't like the other's
    exported file type, and the only way to get any "integration" is to
    use a 3rd party "shareware" to cut the corner for you.
    Which more often than not, the feature you need it to do,
    was intergrated into the "suite" under the other app you chose
    to cut the corner on [cash wise].
    *shrugs*
    you DO get what you pay for, unfortuantely.

    And the most typical problem is people run computers for days, weeks or month without rebooting or turning them off. Computers need to be off when idle, and they need to be rebooted to refresh the RAM and temp RAM (paging file, virtual memory, whatever). Back to yard tools, ever tried to rake up leaves without stopping to pull some out of the blades at least once?
    Again on this I agree...Computer's like humans, need some downtime.
    Caches get full, VM swaps get full, crons have to be run, drives have to
    be wiped/defragged, etc. Most non-techies don't know about this stuff,
    my step-dad is my "poster boy" for this. He runs his PC 24/7, and
    my phone rings when he can't access his external USB drive,
    which Windows happens to "drop" evey now and again due to
    inability to keep the driver loaded. I tell him to reboot his machine,
    and he's ususally good. *shrugs*
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
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  17. Member terryj's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Frobozz
    To me, the decision of which way to go is partly budget, partly the applications that are available to do what I want, partly the need to be in common with co-workers, and partly what feels most comfortable for creating great work.
    for the Original Poster,
    that is what it boils down to.
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
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  18. Agreed with Frobozz too..He explained what I said but on much better English..

    Regarding comparasion of Adobe Premiere and Final Cut PRO app...They are not comparable since they are targeting 2 differnet groups . e.g. Premiere is for home and midrange projects like advertizing stuff...And FCP is for professional Hollywood projects - movies editing...There is no match for FCP now on any platform except maybe Avid and when I say Avid I dont mean Symphony which works on NT but Avid based on Mac...

    Also, one more thing...In FCP 5 and later you can capture and edit HDV footage...

    Why Apple hasitated to add MPEG2 Transport Stream editing?..Simply because MPEG2 Transport Stream is delivery format and not production format...I mean not the pro production format...And it does not have frame based accuracy /yet/...

    Also I agree whit above statements regarding hardware MPEG2 Encoding...its always better to use hardware...And as always budget dictates what you will buy...
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    Originally Posted by terryj
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    And the most typical problem is people run computers for days, weeks or month without rebooting or turning them off. Computers need to be off when idle, and they need to be rebooted to refresh the RAM and temp RAM (paging file, virtual memory, whatever). Back to yard tools, ever tried to rake up leaves without stopping to pull some out of the blades at least once?
    Again on this I agree...Computer's like humans, need some downtime.
    Caches get full, VM swaps get full, crons have to be run, drives have to
    be wiped/defragged, etc. Most non-techies don't know about this stuff,
    my step-dad is my "poster boy" for this. He runs his PC 24/7, and
    my phone rings when he can't access his external USB drive,
    which Windows happens to "drop" evey now and again due to
    inability to keep the driver loaded. I tell him to reboot his machine,
    and he's ususally good. *shrugs*
    If you are running Windows, absolutely. Reboot as often as you can, and you will reduce the crashes. But for those systems running Unix/Linux/OS X there's no particular reason, other than to save electricity (not to be ignored). These machines just work. They can run for months at a time, with no problems. Why? Good code written by people who know what they are doing. Why does Win crash all the time? Crappy code written by a marketing-driven organization that doesn't really care as long as they get your money.

    Steve
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  20. Originally Posted by troublechuter1
    I would also very much like to have the capability to do real-time MPEG2 encoding. There will be times when this will be very handy.
    Just a point of clarification: please note that I said there would be times when this would be very handy. I didn't say this would be the primary workflow option.

    Thanks to all for all of the useful information.
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  21. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Folks, they're just computers, imperfect man-made machines. Mac is no more special than my toaster.

    Does OS X crash or freeze? Yes!
    Crash and "freeze up" are about the same thing, as both require you to reboot or FORCE QUIT software. (FORCE QUIT is actually pretty poor compared to Windows TASK MANAGER. Of course, it sucks to have to use either of these.) Unix-based or not, OS X crashes. Unix and Linux crash too, they all crash. It's not daily or anything, but then neither is Windows XP. My Windows might crash once per month, and it's usually only after I've given it intense use for 4-5 days with large editing/encoding work, and have not rebooted. For all intents and purposes, the crash is my fault for not clearing the system more often.

    Can Mac (OS X) have a virus? Yes!
    Mac has any numbers of virii. I'm not a database, refer to Symantec and other sites if you seek more info. I remember the most ruthless virus I ever saw was on a Mac, the infamous "zip kill" virus which would destory Iomega Zip discs. Mac has less of them, sure, but they exist, and are just as dangerous. Quality over quantity, remember that most Windows virii are just macro or augments, not uniques. Mac is mostly uniques.

    Is Final Cut Pro more professional than other NLEs? No!
    Final Cut Pro is not made for professional work any more or less than Adobe Premiere or Vegas Video. It was made to get more people off third-party software and back to buying only Apple software. But unlike the crappy ClarisWorks and other failed Apple-version software, FCP turned out pretty good. FCP was made to compete with Adobe Premiere, plain and simple. Refer back to 1990s articles and info on this "new software" if you have any doubts on this.

    Do Windows users need more tech help than Mac users? No!
    As far as Windows software causing me to visit this site (or other sites), remember we are in a Mac help forum. If Mac was so perfect, this place would not need to exist, now would it? The only reason Mac forums are smaller is because there are less Mac users.

    What is Mac good for, in terms of video? Lots!
    Mac is great system, in terms of video usage, if you want to be a mini-studio, and create your own productions from DV (and yes, HD) sources. Lots of good tools for advanced editing work. The interface is appealing to "artsy" folks too. One of the best features of Mac video is DVDSP (which is the reason I'll be getting my own personal home Mac, in time). It can have issues with high speed burning, and it lacks multiple choices in software, but that's about the only complaint.

    What is Windows good for, in terms of video? Lots!
    Windows is a jack-of-all-trades, another excellent system. It has a huge range of options, such as DV editing, but also MPEG editing, and newbie -style conversions. The newbieware found on Windows (like TDA) is much easier than Mac software, but of course that comes at the price of limitations. iDVD is about like MyDVD, and I don't recommend either of those for any reason, so don't think iDVD is like TDA, it's not. The only real complaint with Windows is there are a LOT of choices in hardware and software, and a number of them (usually cheapo stuff) just do not work and can be frustrating. So choose hardware/software wisely.


    You guys need to remember I use both platforms, and have for about 10-15 years now. You have to value each system for what it can do, but don't get too comfy with loose generalities like "Mac is safe" or "Mac is more productive" because it's not the case.

    Let's not blow smoke up the original poster's butt, lay it all on the line for him.
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    [quiet interjection]
    Thanks for a thoughtful and complete discussion on this topic while not allowing it to devolve into rants and raves. Its been so helpful I've PDF'd it, something I've never done from this forum before ... although I have, on occasion, made Stickies of my own "brilliant" comments.
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  23. Member terryj's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve Stepoway
    Originally Posted by terryj
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    And the most typical problem is people run computers for days, weeks or month without rebooting or turning them off. Computers need to be off when idle, and they need to be rebooted to refresh the RAM and temp RAM (paging file, virtual memory, whatever). Back to yard tools, ever tried to rake up leaves without stopping to pull some out of the blades at least once?
    Again on this I agree...Computer's like humans, need some downtime.
    Caches get full, VM swaps get full, crons have to be run, drives have to
    be wiped/defragged, etc. Most non-techies don't know about this stuff,
    my step-dad is my "poster boy" for this. He runs his PC 24/7, and
    my phone rings when he can't access his external USB drive,
    which Windows happens to "drop" evey now and again due to
    inability to keep the driver loaded. I tell him to reboot his machine,
    and he's ususally good. *shrugs*
    If you are running Windows, absolutely. Reboot as often as you can, and you will reduce the crashes. But for those systems running Unix/Linux/OS X there's no particular reason, other than to save electricity (not to be ignored). These machines just work. They can run for months at a time, with no problems. Why? Good code written by people who know what they are doing. Why does Win crash all the time? Crappy code written by a marketing-driven organization that doesn't really care as long as they get your money.

    Steve
    Have to disagree on this...Find a user who regualry uses their machine to run any Java Based OSX app in the background, or a Torrent Client,
    and you will SEE the need for more frequent reboots than a user
    on an iMac who only emails his grandma pictures of himself
    sailing once in awhile.

    Also, I find that the people I service, who leave the machines running
    all the time, in mixed ( read more PCs than Macs) environs,
    with PC based File Servers, need to reboot to often deal with
    crash prone Windows 2003 Servers.
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
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  24. Member terryj's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Folks, they're just computers, imperfect man-made machines. Mac is no more special than my toaster.

    Can Mac (OS X) have a virus? Yes!
    Mac has any numbers of virii. I'm not a database, refer to Symantec and other sites if you seek more info. I remember the most ruthless virus I ever saw was on a Mac, the infamous "zip kill" virus which would destory Iomega Zip discs. Mac has less of them, sure, but they exist, and are just as dangerous. Quality over quantity, remember that most Windows virii are just macro or augments, not uniques. Mac is mostly uniques.
    This was known as the "Click of Death" and it WASN'T a virus,
    it was a manufacturing problem with the iomega Zip drives.
    sorry smurfy....

    Click of Death

    it was also the same with the IBM Desktar ( aka DeathStar) Drives,
    as well as the Seagate Cheetah ( aka Mac 7200 Non Boot fiasco).
    in other words...

    Originally Posted by smurfy
    Folks, they're imperfect man-made machines.
    Let's not blow smoke up the original poster's butt, lay it all on the line for him.
    I can DEFINITELY say we have done that....!
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
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  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Sorry, terryj, not the same thing. What I'm referring to was a virus and it was in late 1999. You could re-format the discs, and they'd be fine. None of the drives or Iomegaware had to be replaced.
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  26. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Sorry, terryj, not the same thing. What I'm referring to was a virus and it was in late 1999. You could re-format the discs, and they'd be fine. None of the drives or Iomegaware had to be replaced.
    Nobody disputed the (extremely limited) existence of pre-OS X viruses. You continually cite the possibility of a virus for OS X, which is also indisputable, as somehow being comparable to the plentiful existence of viruses for Windows, which it ain't.
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  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ffooky
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Sorry, terryj, not the same thing. What I'm referring to was a virus and it was in late 1999. You could re-format the discs, and they'd be fine. None of the drives or Iomegaware had to be replaced.
    Nobody disputed the (extremely limited) existence of pre-OS X viruses. You continually cite the possibility of a virus for OS X, which is also indisputable, as somehow being comparable to the plentiful existence of viruses for Windows, which it ain't.
    Well, these "Mac is safe" guys keep acting like it even makes a difference. It does not. With proper anti-virus software, and common computer sense, you won't get a virus, regardless of how "plentiful" they may be, and regardless of what platform/OS they will be executed on.

    Discussing virus threats on computers, when comparing systems, is a left-field discussion. The only people that need to worry about a virus, in terms of choosing a platform, are those who operate open networks and are running 24/7/365.

    Most people will never see a virus if they have any sense about them.
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  28. Final Cut Pro more professional than other NLEs? No!
    Final Cut Pro is not made for professional work any more or less than Adobe Premiere or Vegas Video. It was made to get more people off third-party software and back to buying only Apple software. But unlike the crappy ClarisWorks and other failed Apple-version software, FCP turned out pretty good. FCP was made to compete with Adobe Premiere, plain and simple. Refer back to 1990s articles and info on this "new software" if you have any doubts on this.
    hehehehehe...Buddy, I have to strongly dissagre on the above...Anyway, name me one respectable studio which edits in Premiere or Vegas and name me one movie which was edited in mentioned apps...I can point you to some on IMDB.com which was edited on Mac in FCP...I dont wanna start with postproduction works and Shake app...Postproductions studios works on Discreet® Inferno® and/or Discreet® Flame® /which are hardware solutions runnin on SGI stations/ and/or Apple Shake app on Mac(s)..

    Also FCP was made to compete with Avid not Premiere...Again Premiere is no match to mentioned 2..

    Anyway I agree with you...Comps are just a tools...Diff. is I love my tool and enjoy very much workin with it...
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  29. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Major studios use special hardware, namely AVID. They are not using FCP, Premiere or Vegas mainstream. FCP was not made to compete with AVID, it was created to reduce the reliance of Adobe software by the Mac community. Apple does not play nice with third-party hardware/software. While Apple initially seemed to be going after a pro community (buying Spruce software, for example), that has somewhat waned as newer and newer versions of FCP and DVDSP get more "cheesy" interfaces.

    While any of these CAN be used by studios, it's usually for non-essential editing (meaning NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT).

    HD may be another story, but we're not talking about HD.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Well, these "Mac is safe" guys keep acting like it even makes a difference. It does not. With proper anti-virus software, and common computer sense, you won't get a virus, regardless of how "plentiful" they may be, and regardless of what platform/OS they will be executed on.
    As with a lot of things, this is partly true, and partly not true. With proper anti-virus software, and common computer sense (that's not all that common, I've found), you will be relatively safe. Not safe. Relatively safe. Anti-virus software can't protect against something it doesn't know about, and it still takes a few hours for virus signatures to be identified and solutions found. But you are relatively safe, if you do the right things.

    But the fundamental architecture of Windows and M$'s approach makes it more likely that a virus can do catastrophic damage, or enable someone else to use your computer to launch attacks on 3rd parties without your knowledge, than is the case with the basic architecture of Unix/OS X/Linux. It's a trade-off M$ made that enabled them to bind IE into the heart of the OS so they could argue in court that they "couldn't ship Windows without IE". A marketing decision was made that compromised security in order to better dominate the market. And Windows users (and I'm one of them, on a couple of my machines) have to deal with that. It makes "being safe" more complicated.

    Steve
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