Trying to decide.

[Frobozz]

Did the OP (troublechuter1) say he wanted to make Hollywood movies? Did he say he is unaware of computer viruses? Lordsmurf's point of view has been adequately debunked. Let's give this a rest.

[troublechuter1]

Thanks again, to all for all the useful information. I'm kind of thinking that I'll hold off on the Macbook Pro for at least a little while, until the Intel Duo stuff gets a little more proven. And, in the meantime, I'll keep asking more questions. Perhaps, by that time, they will have a faster Duo also.

(By the way, I don't use IE. I use Netscape. And, I have no problems with it. Ironically, the only time I HAVE to use IE is when running Housecall--an antivirus scanner.)

Thanks again!

[balkan]

troublechuter1 said:

I would also very much like to have the capability to do real-time MPEG2 encoding. There will be times when this will be very handy. (On paper, it looks like LaCie's Fastcoder would handle what I want to do.)

But, now that I think about it more, it makes sense to me that, with only one firewire connector on it (am I right about that?)

Serbian said:

Also I agree with above statements regarding hardware MPEG2 Encoding...its always better to use hardware...And as always budget dictates what you will buy...

Based on the above I would like to add important info. If you look at the photo in Bob Hudson's Fast Coder report at: http://www.bobhudson.com./FastCoder/index.html and the pdf document on LaCie's web site, you will note that the Fast Coder does have two FireWire ports.

After trying to decide myself for many months if I really wanted it, I looked at Fast Coder again and discovered that the price had dorpped from $249 to $119 in Mid January. Last Friday I decided that I would order it and found that the price had dropped again to $99. When I placed my order I asked about the price drop and was told that they had not sold many and planned to discontinue selling it.

Based on the previous posts and Bob Hudson's report I think that the Fast Coder would be a good choice and anyone considering it should be aware of LaCies plans.

cbkilner said:

I would only advise the DVD-recorder > edit on computer route for use on a PC... the tools for this on the Mac are poor and few.

I do not completely agree, the options are increasing. With the Fast Coder I am getting the full version of Capty DVD ($70 if bought from from Pixela) and I do plan on adding Piexela's Capty MPEG Edit EX. Then I will be able to take a DVD-RAM from my Panasonic HS2 (which does not do markers where I want them) and edit on the Mac and burn to DVD-R.

BTW, the Fast Coder will be for files from digitized Super 8 movies edited in iMovie or Quick Time. The Fast Coder comes with software that can convert .mov files to DV for the Fast Coder.

[troublechuter1]

balkan,

If you have time to do another post, I would be interested in your results/finding with Fastcoder.

[balkan]

balkan,

If you have time to do another post, I would be interested in your results/finding with Fastcoder.

The Fast Coder arrived about 9 hours ago. I will be glad to report results as soon as I get a chance to complete some tests. It does have two Firewire sockets.

[cbkilner]

Just a couple more points...

troublechuter1 mentioned waiting for faster Core Duos - the MacBook Pro's have already been speedbumped to 1.83 and 2.0 (from the announced 1.67 and 1.83) can now be special ordered with a 2.16GHz Core Duo processor. By the time it arrives, the Apple pro apps will be available for Intel processors.

Lord Smurf thinks an OS 9 virus from 7 years ago makes OS X just a virus-prone as Windows... the plain truth is that little to no malware exists for OS X and that many times each year we hear of Fortune 500 companies with well-paid IT staffs being hit with PC virii/worms/etc.

I agree that both Macs and PCs can be great tools for video editing...but every Mac (since 2000) is ready to do it out of the box, whereas not all PCs are suitable or ready (many don't even come w/ FW ports).

[AntnyMD]

(The dead horse requests the beating to cease.)

[MacDSL]

So, in reading your original post; If a concern is malware/virus/spyware. there is none for the mac. Period. End of story. Don't even bother to buy or install Antivirus software. It messes up more than it has ever helped on the Mac, and the overhead is not worth it. That's the main reason Macs tend to be so much quicker over networks than PC's, no overhead of scanning files as they come across.
This spills over into the costs area of your post. In working on both platforms for at leat 10 years (almost 20 for the Mac side) I can attest that the first time someone comes to me wiith a spyware/virus'ed-up PC and has to pay $500 for me to save their data and rebuild their machine because they have already tried rebuilding it and it just got jacked up again in 1 week. Whatever money they saved is most likely gone.
Macs are more expensive; always were (except in the very, very beginning), always will be. But you can always tweak the statistics and compare the add-ons that come with the Mac to make it look like the cost for a comprable PC is just about the same or more or less. Bottom line; Macs are more expensive to buy, but generally not more expensive to keep, over the long haul.
If you want a stationery application like Ms Publisher. there's always the new Pages Application which is part of iWork. It's a buy Program, but check it out, You might like it a lot, I looked and there is even a couple of templates already set up for cards.
The Macs tend to be slower in the MPEG recoding and encoding. but the overhead of doing recoding in an application rather than in the UNIX terminal can cause some of the slowdowns. Just as doing stuff from the command-line in DOS is quicker than doing it in Windows.
But if you are recoding some video; you can still work in other apps on the Mac. While it's POSSIBLE to do it on a PC, it's brutaly slow. So, in terms of raw speed, the PC's tend to be quicker, but the Macs tend to handle multi-threaded applications better.

Hope this helps, and good luck in your choice, if you need help (and you will) good to have a place like this to come to....

[thoughton]

Can Mac (OS X) have a virus? Yes!
Mac has any numbers of virii. I'm not a database, refer to Symantec and other sites if you seek more info. I remember the most ruthless virus I ever saw was on a Mac, the infamous "zip kill" virus which would destory Iomega Zip discs. Mac has less of them, sure, but they exist, and are just as dangerous. Quality over quantity, remember that most Windows virii are just macro or augments, not uniques. Mac is mostly uniques.

Smurfie, we all respect your video knowledge, but you are talking total nonsense on this Mac virus issue There might be 1 or 2 OS X viruses listed in Symantec's dbase, but they are both theoretical with ZERO instances of discovery in the wild.

The OP specifically said he didn't wan't to start a Mac vs PC discussion, but as far as I can see you were the one to start comparing them! Everyone else just discussed his Mac options (which seems reasonable, given that we are in the Mac forum).

You probably didn't realise it, but your post is extremely pro-PC and fairly negative about the Mac. On the internet we call this 'trolling'
Just in case why you were wondering about all the responses you're getting

And to nitpick a bit more, that paragraph about "Computers need to be off when idle", is a load of pigswill. No offense intended. I have servers here in the office (Windows ones!) that haven't been turned off for over 18 months. My Mac at home hasn't been turned off in months.

And the home vs work thing, again I must disagree with you. PC at work, Mac at home - it should be pretty obvious really. The amount of maintenance I do on PCs at work, compared to the virtually zero maintenance I do on my Mac at home makes it a no-brainer. The one caveat is if you want to play games on your computer. Then you might want a PC at home. However many of us don't play any games on our PCs. We use consoles for that.

PS I haven't run any anti-virus software on my Mac ever since I bought it in 2002, and it's been connected to the internet 24/7 for the entire time.

[terryj]

---SNIPPED--due to not wanting this to go down in flames--- although I will add that according to my Symantec lookup,
the Zip Drive thing WAS what I described, and NOT what smurfy retorted, at least searching under "mac+virus" or "mac+iomega"--terryj

PS I haven't run any anti-virus software on my Mac ever since I bought it in 2002, and it's been connected to the internet 24/7 for the entire time.

I would also chalk this up to the fact that you also
might not be of the type that the RIAA or the MPAA
are looking for my friend, , thus you don't tend to
download and open EVERY SINGLE THING, as some of
our PC friends do......in other words, a little more "tech savvy'
than the average person.

But I'm with Ant, although I applaud many of the "new faces",
ie Lurkers who don't regualrly post, come out in support of this topic,
let's let this one rest.

[lordsmurf]

Yeah, Mac is perfect. Never gets viruses. Never crashes. Run it 24/7/365 for 10 years and it'll act perfect all the time. God himself bestowed Mac on the Earth. It is flawless. If you ask it nicely, it might even bring you breakfast in bed!

Whatever.

The guy asked for advice on how well a Mac works (in comparison to PC, even if subtly), and having used numerous systems for many years, I thought I'd lay it all on the line. Forbid there be any realism in advice. Everybody around here seems to prefer the Apple PR line.

[Frobozz]

Forbid there be any realism in advice.

This is just soooo tempting. You've got to stop serving these up, lordsmurf, or this thread will last our lifetimes.

[lordsmurf]

This is just soooo tempting.

Congratulations. You know how to take something out of context and use the sound bite against the person who originally said it.

[terryj]

guys.....let's let it die already....

[troublechuter1]

balkan,

No rush, really....

I forgot to ask specifically if Fastcoder will allow you to do realtime capture and encoding simultaneously. I've heard conflicting answers: that it does and doesn't. I'm very interested in what you find out about this, as I might purchase one of these before they're completely gone from the shelves. Also, I certainly can understand if you don't have the equipment to test this idea.

Again, I want to stress...no pressure, no rush. Ultimately, if I don't get one, it's fine. I already have other ideas of how to do what I want to do.

Thanks in advance.

(Did I mention "no pressure"? :

[lordsmurf]

If you want a high quality DV input device, you may be able to pick up a Matrox RTmac card rather cheap. And then use a good encoder. Quicktime Pro does MPEG-2 okay at Full D1, and if you want a more advanced encoder (more options, features), check out BitVice or MegaPegX. BitVice is comparable to MainConcept, MegaPegX is more similar to Canopus Procoder.

[balkan]

troublechuter1

I forgot to ask specifically if Fastcoder will allow you to do realtime capture and encoding simultaneously. I've heard conflicting answers: that it does and doesn't. I'm very interested in what you find out about this, as I might purchase one of these before they're completely gone from the shelves.

Without even testing I can answer this follow up question. Fast Coder does not "capture" video from analog sources such as VHS or camcorder tapes. It takes digitized output from the likes of iMovie or Final Cut as examples. It converts DV>MPEG 1 or 2 via the included "Capty Fast Coder" software in real time. To capture from analog you need a unit like the Canopus models and you can then edit the DV in iMovie or FCP before using the Fast Coder. Or you can edit the MPEG after Fast Coding using Capty software - see the new thread on that!

It may be a couple of days before I get the Fast Coder test done. I need to generate some DV to convert.

[troublechuter1]

Thanks for the clarification, Balkan.

[thoughton]

This is just soooo tempting.

Congratulations. You know how to take something out of context and use the sound bite against the person who originally said it.

You seem to be quite good at this yourself Smurf. I said some of my WINDOWS servers had been up for 24/7 for 18 months, and this is how you replied:

Yeah, Mac is perfect. Never gets viruses. Never crashes. Run it 24/7/365 for 10 years and it'll act perfect all the time. God himself bestowed Mac on the Earth. It is flawless. If you ask it nicely, it might even bring you breakfast in bed!

Now who's misquoting who?

Since you love your PC so much, why don't you leave the Mac forum alone and stop being such a troll.

[terryj]

thoughton...
let it go my friend.

[thoughton]

Good advice Terry, I shall try and hold my tongue! I've set myself a little reminder

[SERBIAN]

hehehehehehehehehehe....

[troublechuter1]

I checked out the Eyetv product. It looks pretty good, features-wise. I find that an external PVR-like device that will do MPEG2 on the fly is what I'm looking for (it will combine some functions that I'll likely be using), as I sometimes will want to grab live TV. However, I'm a little concerned about it using a proprietary MPEG2 wrapper--I believe someone here posted something like that, anyway. I could see that posing some problems. Can anyone suggest a simlar device, only without the proprietary MPEG2 stuff?

Also, just to clarify, I'm looking mainly for external devices to be used on a laptop, since that's the direction I'm leaning in. Furthermore, if it's external, I may be able to use it with any Windows machines I might still have around. But, thanks, smurf, for the Matrox info. (By the way, smurf, since the Matrox card is PCI-based, do you know if it can be used on a PC as well as a Mac? When I checked it out, I didn't see any PC sys. req.'s mentioned, but maybe I just didn't look hard enough.)

I just spoke with a Mac-friend of mine yesterday. I had previously commented to him that I didn't think the Mac speed was much better at all than my now-dated MSXPPro system. That is, I was quite surprised at how relatively "slow" I thought the Mac ran compared to what I had heard many people raving about. He suggested that the version of iMovie HD that I tried might not be optimized for the new Duo yet, and that soon, Apple would be coming out with universal binaries which would help the app. run faster. Can anyone comment on this? Also, is there some way I can tell if the code is optimized or not? Like, can I pull up Help-->About and have it tell me something?

Also, I'm interested in possibly doing some multitrack in-the-field audio work with (that same) MacBook PRO. Is there anyone out there who can lend some insight into how effective the Mac might be for this kind of work? I've been looking around for a good digital audio website forum in which to read comparison/review information and ask this question, but I haven't come across one yet.

I think I'll start a new post about doing greeting cards on the Mac. I tried iPages and I thought it was particularly clunky. Both my wife (who would be doing more greeting cards than I will) have been extremely frustrated on this one...none of the Mac's that we've tried in the Mac stores have had anything other than Apple's DP software loaded on to try out, and the stuff that we have tried out doesn't seem to be as good as either of us thought it would be, especially since we've heard from SO MANY folks that "the Mac is the way to go for Graphics arts stuff." When I've asked the Mac store people, "do you have Print Shop loaded?" the reply was "No," with no offer to install it. (Any Mac Store owners reading this....that's a hint! Also, hook up a printer--even in the back room, if that's what it takes--so that customers could check something of the print quality.)

The last time I checked, Print Shop for Mac was not that expensive. I KNOW that many folks (especially artsy folks) make their own greeting cards and that, if customers could try out the different software options for this, Apple might just make another (expensive) sale or two! [Any Mac store owners...Load up Print Shop (and/or others) on a Mac or two for people to try out. The miniscule investment that you make in installing it might just yield more profit for you.]

A related example...I was in a Mac store once and heard a woman talking about one of the nice Apple $2000.00 cinema displays. She was in a little bit of a hurry saying very politely, "excuse me, you person in line. I'm interested in buying one of these today, but only if you could move out of the way so that I can see it." (Paraphrased to demonstrate the point.) (Yeah, I know...it's probably a 3rd party vs. Apple competition discussion at some level. But, I think you get my point.)

Thanks again, for all the current feedback, and, thanks in advance, for any future feedback.

[Frobozz]

Here's some of what you're asking:

Video capture devices are platform specific. The ones that work on PCs don't work on Macs and vice versa.

A great site for Mac audio info is www.bigbluelounge.com

iMovie 6 HD has the universal binary for the Intel Macs. All of the iLife 6 series is universal. During this transition period there are many things that require Rosetta and some things don't work with the Intel Macs. The manufacturers should state this compatibility.

Here are somes Mac greeting card application I found (but don't have):
www.sophiescards.com/
www.novadevelopment.com/products/productinfo.aspx?productcode=gcm
www.arcsoft.com/products/greetingcardcreator/

[cbkilner]

While most video capture devices are platform specific, nearly all the analog>DV devices (Canopus ADVC 110/300, camcorder pass-thru, Miglia Director's cut, etc.) for capturing analog video as DV over FireWire are platform independent.

[RLT69]

I think I can address your point about the lack of performance by the new iMacs. According to the article:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/features/imaclabtest1/index1.php

If you talk to both Apple and Intel, they’ll tell you that the Intel Core Duo is a processor designed for laptops, providing a compromise between performance and good power-consumption and heat-generation characteristics. And so the Core Duo processor in these new iMacs (as well as the forthcoming MacBook Pro) is clearly not meant to be the be-all, end-all when it comes to raw computing power.

Thus if you are looking for performace, the iMac and the Macbooks might not be what you want. You probably want the successor to the G5.


Lord Smurf I am shaking my fist at you. Your posts typically are fair, objective and without malice. But in this forum you have left decorum behind and decided to brandish an acid tongue.

For shame.

I, as others, have found fault with you comparision of OS X with XP and Linux. I, having used all three, can certainly provide some insight. Unfortunately my knowledge if video software is quite limited. I use software on the PC for simple encoding procedures and nothing more, converting video to be watched on DVDs.

However I can say a thing or two about the respective operating systems. I will attempt to be brief.

1. Viruses. There are approximately 100,000 viruses for Windows. There are 6 viruses for Unix. OS X is a unixed based operating system. Whether or not those viruses have the same impact on OS X, I don't know. At the most OS X has 6 viruses. Compared to Windows, OS X is cleaner and safer.

2. Stability. Only Windows machines, servers or workstations, need to be rebooted. Unix/Linux and OS X can go months if not years without rebooting. Why, because they are designed that way. POSIX based operating systems maintain themselves very well. There is limited kludge build up over time. Windows however, starts building up kludge right away.
If an application crashes - you are almost always better off rebooting the system because over time the system will become unstable. I have seen this time and time again with Windows (2000/XP). Not so with Linux not so with Unix and with my limited sample, not so with OS X.

What does this mean? Nothing. Simply put, your needs determine what kind of computer you will use. If that is a Mac it's a mac. If it's a PC then it's PC. If you have a choice, then you need to do some research, determine your budget and go with your instincts.

The plain truth is OS X, Windows, Linux are not the same. They are different. There are pros and there on cons to each one. Let noone tell you they have the same faults. They don't.

Have a nice day

[troublechuter1]

CBKilner...thanks. I've heard good things about Datavideo's DAC100. I'm thinking about that box, too.

RLT...Many, many thanks. The article you linked hit the nail on the head for me. In fact, this might be a key piece that I've been looking for--confirmation of my gut feeling that the new Duo is (as of "today") not as fast as I thought it would be, based on what I've been hearing.

I think you're right, RLT...My needs may dicate that I should wait for the next generation of something--either a new processor or code that is better tweaked for the Duo processor. This helps me with my most immediate decision--wait longer for the faster Duo Mac (or code) or build another (non-laptop) PC that probably will not be on the internet much, thusly requiring not as much maintenance as my current PC. That may get me rolling with my video editing needs sooner.

Hmm...Here's another approach. What does anyone think about using the fastest (1GB) MacMini for doing camcorder tape-->DV-->cut editing-->"overnight" MPEG2 encoding? I will likely be getting an external firewire hard drive setup anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect of things. (I know that Lacie makes some 2-port firewire products that would probably work for me.)

From what I've experimented with so far, my Sony Handycam should have no problem converting my camcorder tapes. It has both USB and firewire ports and can also convert external analog in (from, say a VHS VCR) to DV. So, for the time being, I should be able to hold off on getting a Datavideo or other A/D converter box. (I've heard many people having trouble with USB, so I'd probably try to stick with firewire from the Handycam.)

As a place to start comparing, does anyone have any idea how long it would take to MPEG2-encode a 1 or 1-1/2 hour Hi8/8mm etc. camcorder tape (on a MacMini?)? Right now, I'm used to about 4 or 5 hours. This is an approximate number. I'm guessing that a MacMini might be similar. Anyone have any idea if an external firewire400 hard drive would be able to keep up with the Handycam-to-hard-drive-DV capture/transfer side of things?

Would a firewire daisy chain of Handycam-->Lacie (for example) hard drive-->MacMini do it?

The numbers that I've been looking at make me think that, by the time I build another PC, I may end up running into approximately the same cost as trying this MacMini route--and, of course, I'm working in a Mac factor--that is, higher costs 'cause it's a Mac. I can hold off on a laptop for a while, as I've indicated in previous posts.

Thanks again, in advance.

[troublechuter1]

Hi. I haven't seen any replies to this in a little while. I'm posting this because I'm wondering if this has somehow been "closed" or something. As usual, thanks for all the help, and thanks in advance for any more.

[DeadLily]

Hmm...Here's another approach. What does anyone think about using the fastest (1GB) MacMini for doing camcorder tape-->DV-->cut editing-->"overnight" MPEG2 encoding? I will likely be getting an external firewire hard drive setup anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect of things. (I know that Lacie makes some 2-port firewire products that would probably work for me.)

...

As a place to start comparing, does anyone have any idea how long it would take to MPEG2-encode a 1 or 1-1/2 hour Hi8/8mm etc. camcorder tape (on a MacMini?)? Right now, I'm used to about 4 or 5 hours. This is an approximate number. I'm guessing that a MacMini might be similar. Anyone have any idea if an external firewire400 hard drive would be able to keep up with the Handycam-to-hard-drive-DV capture/transfer side of things?

Would a firewire daisy chain of Handycam-->Lacie (for example) hard drive-->MacMini do it?

I do this regularly, and it works fine. I do have the daisy chain from hell, and I capture from a Canopus ADVC-100, which outputs DV and is treated by most applications like a DV camera. I have the faster MacMini (1.42 GHz), and 2 external FW drives. I use Bitvice for making m2v files, and it takes 8-10 hours to do a feature length show. Compressor does it in about half the time, but Bitvice lets me control more variables, so I prefer it. (I'm also using an older version of Bitvice, and the newer version might be faster.)

[cbkilner]

I started with analog>MiniDV>iMovie on an old CRT iMac DV for capture (so a newer Mac Mini should do fine), with a transfer via FW HD to edit and burn overnight on an eMac. It works well - I've only upgraded the MiniDV A>D part of the process to use a Canopus ADVC-300. It cleans up old tape and is more forgiving with stretched tape that has timing sync issues. On a 1GHz eMac, a 1.5-2hr movie takes 5-8 hours using iDVD.