MiniDV resolution

[winzee]

hey guys.
I'm new at this.
When i'm capturing the video from my DVcam which contains a DVmini Casette, what will the output resolution be?
is it NTSC or PAL by default?

Also, are there any ways to change the resolution (size, to maybe 768x576) of the video when capturing?

[Baldrick]

Best
1. Copy the video to your computer with WinDV. No "capturing" involved. The video resolution and PAL/NTSC format will be the same as the source.
2. Then convert to whatever format you like.


You could also use something that copy and converts the video directly from the DV, like convert to dvd with Ulead DVD Workshop.

[Rudyard]

Baldrick,

I thought that going from DV to PC is a stream and as such your PC 'captures' the DV stream. It doesnt make a digital copy like from a file on a disc to PC copy.

This was posted in a thread recently, is that incorrect? And if it doesnt 'capture' a stream why would there ever be lost frames or anything as it is just making a 'copy' of the file such as a video file on a cd to PC??

[daamon]

When i'm capturing the video from my DVcam which contains a DVmini Casette, what will the output resolution be?
is it NTSC or PAL by default?

Use WinDV to transfer the footage from tape to hard-drive on the PC in the form of DV AVI files.

PAL cam = PAL footage in the files. Likewise with NTSC.

Also, are there any ways to change the resolution (size, to maybe 768x576) of the video when capturing?

Try the resize filter in VirtualDub. Be sure to download and install the Panasonic DV Codec and then set VirtualDub to use this when resizing, else it'll default to uncompressed AVI - which is huge!

[redwudz]

Baldrick,

I thought that going from DV to PC is a stream and as such your PC 'captures' the DV stream. It doesnt make a digital copy like from a file on a disc to PC copy.

This was posted in a thread recently, is that incorrect? And if it doesnt 'capture' a stream why would there ever be lost frames or anything as it is just making a 'copy' of the file such as a video file on a cd to PC??

It is a stream and is a exact digital copy of the tape or DV file. It is transfered, but not like a hard drive transfer, as there is no error checking.

If your PC does something to interrupt the stream, then you can drop frames. Programs like overactive antivirus software, or the OS doing a lot of 'housekeeping' writing to the hard drive could cause frame drops. But this is not common. It takes a fair amount of interference to mess up the transfer.

[edDV]

DV is a fixed standard and comes in 50Hz and 60Hz versions.

50Hz ("PAL" 625/50) 720x576, 25fps interlace (aka 576i)
4:2:0 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

60Hz ("NTSC" 525/60) 720x480, 29.97fps interlace (aka 480i)
4:1:1 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

[edDV]

It is a stream and is a exact digital copy of the tape or DV file. It is transfered, but not like a hard drive transfer, as there is no error checking.

There is no file system on a DV tape. One way to think of it is the DV tape records and plays back the stream. Consumer DV tape has no concept of files, it is just an assembly of stream segments. Metadata includes timecode and other data per field. Clip start and stop flags are saved. That is how "scene detection" is accomplished.

Pro DVCAM and DVCPro tapes have automatic indexing data contained in a microchip built into the cart. That way the contents can be machine read without needing to play any tape.

[redwudz]

I was thinking of my ADVC-100 converting a video source to DV as opposed to a DV tape, though 'file' was the wrong word to use.

[cjtucker]

Hello everyone. I just registered with this site hoping someone can answer my questions quickly. So thanks in advance if you respond! I just bought a digital camcorder. After hemming and hawing and talking to no less than six different Best Buy employees and two different Circuit City employees, I finally decided on a Panasonic Palmcorder PV-GS85 MiniDV Camcorder.

Here were my criteria: good image stabilization, decent low-light vision, no touch-panel (read too often that they break), good optical zoom (30x+), convenient for backing up and creating edited DVD versions, reliability of media, under $300.

I was told by several different people that a MiniDV will transfer data faster than real time; that it's not like analog, which is a minute-by-minute capture. But I'm getting the impression by reading this forum that it actually is a minute-by-minute capture. Is that correct?

Should I return it and stick to miniDVD or HDD (I know I'm not going to get HDD for under $300)? I currently have an old VHS-C that I've been trying to back up to DVD, but it's time intensive. I want to be able to video my kids and move on.

So, to recap: 1) Is miniDV a minute-by-minute transfer to PC (using USB 2.0, I don't have a FireWire port) or is it quicker than capturing analog? and 2) Does anyone have any suggestions for what camcorder I should buy, if not the PV-GS85?

Thanks so much!

[Rudyard]

So, to recap: 1) Is miniDV a minute-by-minute transfer to PC (using USB 2.0, I don't have a FireWire port) or is it quicker than capturing analog? and 2) Does anyone have any suggestions for what camcorder I should buy, if not the PV-GS85?

Thanks so much!

1 - Mini DV is minute by minute.....you plug it into your PC via firewire and you can watch it as it transfers......it is not a copy like a file copy. You also need firewire as far as I know to capture, USB is for the still camera photo abillitys of the camera which is non real time transfer to PC.

But video is real time transfer via firewire.

2 - I dont have a specific camera of hand but if reliability of media as posted by you is important I would steer right away from mini DVD (not mini DV) as in my experience (2 diff cameras) errors on the discs are very common.

[cjtucker]

1 - Mini DV is minute by minute.....you plug it into your PC via firewire and you can watch it as it transfers......it is not a copy like a file copy. You also need firewire as far as I know to capture, USB is for the still camera photo abillitys of the camera which is non real time transfer to PC.

But video is real time transfer via firewire.

2 - I dont have a specific camera of hand but if reliability of media as posted by you is important I would steer right away from mini DVD (not mini DV) as in my experience (2 diff cameras) errors on the discs are very common.

Thanks so much for the incredibly fast response, Rudyard! I kept saying to the people at Best Buy, "How could it not be a real-time transfer if it's on a tape?" And they'd just say, it's digital, it's different than analog. Grr! And NOT ONE PERSON mentioned that the USB port is for digital stills only! Yarr!! I could strangle someone.

You just saved me some major headache! I definitely will stay away from miniDVD, as it just seems too short and unreliable a media. I think I'll just fork out the extra $120 or so for the Panasonic HDD model (SDR-H18), then go bust some heads at Best Buy and Circuit City. Aren't any of these people trained in what they sell?! Heck, I would have had to pay another $50-$60 for the FireWire card and cable just so I could get the video off of the tapes before I returned the sucker, and then have to pay a 15% re-shelving fee because it was open! Lousy retail.

Thanks again! I don't know why I didn't check this first. Live and learn I suppose. I'll be sure to post here again before making any more purchases. I'm just glad I figured it out before it was too late. Cheers!

[guns1inger]

And NOT ONE PERSON mentioned that the USB port is for digital stills only!

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video. Unlike the older cameras that had only USB 1 and therefore limited bandwidth, newer cameras will transfer across USB 2 ports. You have to install the drivers provided to enable this function to work correctly though.

[JohnnyMalaria]

DV is a fixed standard and comes in 50Hz and 60Hz versions.

50Hz ("PAL" 625/50) 720x576, 25fps interlace (aka 576i)
4:2:0 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

60Hz ("NTSC" 525/60) 720x480, 29.97fps interlace (aka 480i)
4:1:1 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

There are additional audio formats. The full list is:

1 channel (contains 2 tracks):

32kHz/16-bit
44.1kHz/16-bit
48kHz/16-bit
32kHz/12-bit - (12-bit is non-linear PCM)

2 channel (contains 4 tracks):

32kHz/12-bit

For DVCAM all but the 44.1kHz are locked (which really means very little and has nothing to do with audio drift that seems to be the common misconception)

Each channel doesn't have to be a stereo pair. The two channel can support surround sound encoding. All tracks (for one and two channel modes) can be independent mono tracks.

Of course, many of these options aren't used in reality.

Most prosumer equipment uses 32kHz/12-bit the single channel option when configured for 32kHz.

I've never come across the 44.1kHz being used. Indeed, most DV codecs don't support it. All DV equipment must be able to play all variants.

[cjtucker]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

Thanks for the clarification! But as long as it's a real-time transfer, I do think I'll go with the HDD version.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I thought that going from DV to PC is a stream and as such your PC 'captures' the DV stream. It doesnt make a digital copy like from a file on a disc to PC copy.

Correct. Though, if you want to be really anal, "transfer" and "capture" have very similar meanings when you look at their origins.

The stream analogy is the right one. It's just like web streaming a video. When connected to a FireWire bus, the DV camcorder blindly sends data whether anything is listening or not. It calls the shots. If a listener (e.g., PC) misses a packet of data, it's gone forever. The listener can't ask the camcorder to resend it. Just like web streaming.

[Rudyard]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

Thanks for the clarification! But as long as it's a real-time transfer, I do think I'll go with the HDD version.

cjtucker,

Another site you may find very helpful when looking for a camera is this:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com

It has many reviews and good opinions.

It has your camera here and on this particular page a good description about miniDV:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-PV-GS85-Camcorder-Review-33760/Format.htm

I was also unaware that newer models now output video via USB as I have only ever seen the USB port used for the stills (as in all my 3 previous cameras), sorry for the bumsteer.

[edDV]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

Thanks for the clarification! But as long as it's a real-time transfer, I do think I'll go with the HDD version.

DV transfer as a stream results in an exact copy so long as the stream is received and saved to a file. The picture and sound data are identical to the data on tape so long as nothing gets lost along the way.

SD HDD camcorders record in an inferior compressed MPeg2 format. You need to buy into the concept of "inferior quality format" in exchange for HDD files and USB transfer.

Sony and the others intended these HDD camcorders for those who don't intend to computer edit. Their research showed 90% never transfer video to a computer and a subset of those wished to just burn straight to DVD without editing.

[stantheman1976]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

Thanks for the clarification! But as long as it's a real-time transfer, I do think I'll go with the HDD version.

Real time transfer is not that bad when you consider the quality and ease of editing DV. If you care about what you're shooting and want to know that you're footage will still exist in 10 years stay with MiniDV. Those HDD camcorders shoot to compressed MPEG-2 which is not as easy to edit as DV and you have nothing but digital files that you have to find a place to store like data DVD or hard drive, both of which can get corrupted and die much easier than tape.

[guns1inger]

It looks like the day is coming very soon that you will have a choice between going HD, or going for mpeg-2 based SD. We have, this week, approached Sony to purchase 5 mini-DV cameras for a video class to be taught next year, only to be told by Sony that they will be phasing out mini-DV over Christmas, and releasing no tape based cameras early in the new year, and phasing out mini-DV tape over the course of the year.

I don't know how much of this is true, and how much is just moron sales-person speak - although this was done through Sony's government sales program, not a retailer, and also how soon others will follow suit if it is true.

[stantheman1976]

If I can go with a tape based HD camera like the HV20 I can handle that. I just want to stay with a physical storage medium as long as humanly possible.

[SmokieStover]

Sony's Handicam DVD cameras were plagued with disk write errors.

Camera DVD and HDD systems don't handle the rough motion that goes with the handheld, "shoot.....pause...swing it down...swing it up...shoot" shooting method most commonly used by home movie makers. These habits were developed using the old tape formats and they are hard to break. Tape cameras can handle it. DVD and HDD cameras can't.

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic331764.html

[Undead Sega]

50Hz ("PAL" 625/50) 720x576, 25fps interlace (aka 576i)
4:2:0 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

60Hz ("NTSC" 525/60) 720x480, 29.97fps interlace (aka 480i)
4:1:1 components, 25Mb/s Video Rate
LPCM audio 2ch 16bit 48KHz or 4ch 12bit 32kHz

but those are DVD resolutions.

isnt there a way to determine the exact lines or resolutions that miniDV (and possibly Digital 8) records at?

[redwudz]

DV-AVI uses DVD resolutions. That also helps when encoding it to DVD MPEG-2 format. No resizing.

[cjtucker]

Real time transfer is not that bad when you consider the quality and ease of editing DV. If you care about what you're shooting and want to know that you're footage will still exist in 10 years stay with MiniDV. Those HDD camcorders shoot to compressed MPEG-2 which is not as easy to edit as DV and you have nothing but digital files that you have to find a place to store like data DVD or hard drive, both of which can get corrupted and die much easier than tape.

Thanks so much for all your input, everyone! I think I will stick with the miniDV. I can live with the inconvenience of the playback-capture thing given the better video quality (and better price) over HDDs and better reliability of the tapes over DVDs. When I sat down and thought about it, I don't think I'll be doing all that much editing and transferring anyway. So I'd like to have the tapes for longevity, and transfer those clips to DVD that I'd like to have handy for repeated viewing.

BTW, can you recommend a good, yet relatively inexpensive video editing application to use with my miniDV camcorder? I've been using Pinnacle Studio 10, but I've quit using it because it crashes almost constantly, and I've had mixed results with creating discs. I also have NeroVision Express, which captures to MPEG-2 files.

Thanks again!

[guns1inger]

Vegas Movie Studio, Premiere Elements or Ulead VideoStudio. Each of these is solid, provides enough features for the beginner to intermediate, and each leads to a pro-sumer product as you grow (Vegas Pro, Premiere Pro and MediaStudio Pro respectively)

[cjtucker]

Vegas Movie Studio, Premiere Elements or Ulead VideoStudio. Each of these is solid, provides enough features for the beginner to intermediate, and each leads to a pro-sumer product as you grow (Vegas Pro, Premiere Pro and MediaStudio Pro respectively)

I do have Ulead DVD MovieFactory 4.0 SE because it came with the Hauppauge TV tuner card I installed. I haven't used it yet. Is it worth using? Or should I look into getting the VideoStudio?

[cjtucker]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

I emailed Panasonic a few days ago about this, but haven't received a response yet. Can anyone tell me with certainty whether the PV-GS85 miniDV camcorder will transfer video via USB? Or will I need to buy a FireWire card and cord?

Thanks!

[JohnnyMalaria]

Capture a small clip via USB and work out the data rate.

Typically, in Windows Explorer, hover over the clip with your mouse and you should see how long the file is and how big it is.

Just divide the size in megabytes by the length in seconds. If it comes out at 3.5MB/s then it is almost certainly DV format.

You can also download ultilities that can tell you such as Gspot.

[valvehead]

With many newer DV cameras, the USB port is also used for transferring full frame DV video.

I emailed Panasonic a few days ago about this, but haven't received a response yet. Can anyone tell me with certainty whether the PV-GS85 miniDV camcorder will transfer video via USB? Or will I need to buy a FireWire card and cord?

Thanks!

I don't know about the PV-GS85, but my PV-GS120 will not do full-resolution video over USB.

USB was never intended for real-time transfer. It requires more CPU utilization than IEEE-1394 (firewire). The stream is more easily interrupted. On top of that, most capture utilities/programs will only look for a firewire device for transfer. For USB you would probably have to use whatever software and drivers come with the camera to make it work. You would be much better off getting a firewire card.

[edDV]

USB support is the exception rather than the rule and would be clearly documented in your manual. IEEE-1394 is the universally supported link for DV format.

Even if your camcorder did support DV transfer over USB, you would need to use the included Panasonic software.