Undetermined errors in Vegas

[MTD]

Hey, I was hoping you guys could help me pinpoint a problem I've been having with trying to encode my stuff in Vegas 6 to MPEG2, so I can burn it.

The video is 1 hour and 41 mins long. I leave the project to encode and I go to work or sleep. When I come back, it has usually failed, giving me the annoying "A reason for the error could not be determined". I know it gets pretty far in the video when it fails. There is a long 10 minute scene that uses the most FX in the whole project, and I know it must be during that it fails, or at least around there. A guy had a similiar problem here:
http://www.wwug.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fcgi?forum=sonic-foundry_vegas&post=050001040834.htm

But my temp folder is located in my Video drive which has tons and tons of gigs free. I always get errors on startup with Vegas anyhow. The first is a Media Manager error, and the second one I managed to get rid of by looking online and turning a Terminal Services option on. But the first one still remains.

Anyway, when I check the file I was trying to encode on my hardrive, all that is left is a 3 second video with audio and no picture, and it's the very beginning of the video. So I'll try to give you guys the best run down I can here:

I'm running at 736 RAM or so, my video drive is 200 gigs (some used up by the one project, but still tons left), and I think the CPU power is like 1.30 GHz or something.

In Vegas, the settings are for an MPEG2 file. The setting is on "Best", the video quality is selected to the highest at "31", I use a two-pass, and I use a bitrate of 5,600 bps.

Any idea?

[MTD]

I'd also like to add...

The video part I suspect is crashes on, is it's own clip. There are some quick split video parts with an additive dissolve and the last one dissolve happens right as it starts the 10 minute clip in question. For some reason, the clip in the timeline (but not the actual picture) has turned a light pink colour. I can't figure out why, found nothing in Vegas or online. I'm wondering if that is a reason. The clip is also squeezed together to speed up the time.

I've also encoded this project into DV-AVI in the past with no problems, but of course, I can't use that type of file for burning and being able to fit all my stuff on a disc.

[guns1inger]

You can disable media manager and uninstall it if you don't use it, however the number of problems you are having suggests very strongly that you have a corrupt installation, and should uninstall Vegas completely, reboot, and install anew.

As for your settings, the 'Best' setting is only good for stills on the timeline to reduce interlace flicker. For video it can actually produce a lower quality, softer ouput. I suggest you stick with 'Good'

[MTD]

Okay, I was thinking of reinstalling it. I do actually have a few stills in the video though, but I have the "reduce interlace flicker" turned on for them. Should I still use "Best"?

I also did a test. I took a video clip and created the same effect with the additive dissolve transition and sped up a portion of video (and it turned pink again) and the MPEG failed. But I'll try a reinstall.

[MTD]

Okay, I've reinstalled it, but haven't had a chance to try to encode the entire video again. I ran a test with a short 13 minute clip, and I think I might of pinpointed it.

In the bitrate calculator, it told me to use 5,766 kbps. If I enter that number into Vegas, it changes to 5,600 by itself (no, nothing automatic is ticked off). Am I supposed to enter the number like that, or "5,766,000"?

Because if I use the 5,600 number it gives me, the video fails. If I use the longer number (5,766,000) it works, but 13 seconds of video is like 5 some odd megs, which seems like a lot. How do I enter this number correctly?

[guns1inger]

I don't have Vegas in front of me, but if memory serves, Mainconcept expects to see the full rate. I will try to confirm this asap, however I'm sure the manual/help files can confirm this more quickly. It would certainly explain your encoding problems.

[MTD]

No, I can never get much help from Vegas's help stuff.

I'm pretty pissed off though. I let my computer encode the thing for 12.5 hours and it looks like garbage. It actually didn't fail this time. Bit rate calculator told me to use 5766 kbps, and I used that and the size of the final file came out like .098 gigs. How big is it supposed to be? The calculator knows I'm using a regular DVD disc, so I'd think it'd make the bit rate adjusted so that the file I encode comes out just under the full size of a DVD.

But I'm probably just missing something here. It says the DVD Max Bitrate is 9570 as well. Sony Vegas seems to read the bit rates like:

"5,766,000", not "5766", or else it fails. The bit rate I was given made the video extremely pixelated. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys.

[MTD]

So, I did a test with some interesting results.

I took a 30 second clip. Encoded it as "5,766,000" in the system bit rate, then I did a second encode, using the auto-calculate option. Then I did a third encode of the clip at like "9,999,999" to see what would happen.

Guess what? The file size for each is the EXACT same. So what does this tell me? No matter what bit rate I enter, it comes out the exact same. Now I believe I am inputting the numbers into the correct field, under "system bit rate", because there is no where else that says bit rate, and it's what one or two people on this board suggested in a previous thread.

Vegas has no help file on this sort of thing. Am I inputting the numbers into the wrong field or what? It makes no sense.

[edDV]

...trying to encode my stuff... The video is 1 hour and 41 mins long...

In Vegas, the settings are for an MPEG2 file. The setting is on "Best", the video quality is selected to the highest at "31", I use a two-pass, and I use a bitrate of 5,600 bps.

What is this "my stuff" that you are encoding?

Vegas doesn't have a MPeg2 project setting. You are probably converting from "mystuff" to the default DV format and then to MPeg2. Could take days.

[MTD]

"My stuff" is a video I put together. Vegas 6 has an MPEG2 option (when you go to Render As, which I was told in another thread that's called "encoding" not "rendering"), but basically I'm just taking all the video and audio in the timeline and "saving" it to an MPEG2 file. In another thread, board members told me to use MPEG2, so I am doing that.

[MTD]

Uhh, I think I have this whole thread posted in the wrong section of the board. Damn...

[levick]

Going out on a limb here..
I found for smaller projects to get Vegas generate a AVI file and then use the AVI file in another encoder in this case CCE for test purposes and the final result was great.
I say smaller projects as a file the size of the project your working with would be several hundred gigs with a no compression AVI file. The other option is get Vegas to frame serve and load your test encoder that way.

[edDV]

But what format is your original video?

Let's say it is a MPeg2 file (not DVD ready).
Let's also say you did "file - new" and took default DV settings.

Then you preview and edited on the timeline and did "render as" DVD MPeg2.

Vegas would then

1. convert your video "myfile" to DV where not filtered and uncompressed RGB where filters or transitions are used.
2. convert your audio "myfile" to uncompressed PCM
3. render your filters and transitions
4. encode the timeline to DVD MPeg2 720x480 video and AC-3 (or whatever) audio.

While doing this, Vegas will expand hard disk usage from 25 to several hundred GB depending on what you instructed it to do.

[crazy14muzic]

when you set your bitrate, you need to set it here.

[crazy14muzic]

you can use either constant bit rate or the variable bit rate settings but dont mess with the system tab settings

[MTD]

My original video was recorded as DV-AVI, using Firewire from my camcorder. I then go to "Render As" to make it an MPEG2 file. I then change the bitrate and whatever else I need to in "Custom".

As for the last poster, I thought maybe that was it, but the drop down menus only provide like 3 options, so if a bitrate calculator gave me a number, where would I enter this number (bit rate number). I suppose if the "system bit rate" wasn't the right one, that would explain why changing it does not alter how big the final file is. I'll play with those settings you posted a picture of, I just don't understand where to put the number a bitrate calculator would give me still.

Thanks for the help so far guys...keep 'em comin'.

[edDV]

OK the DV-AVI input format and DV project format info would have been helpfull. Many input a small compressed file and are surprised when these explode into 30-100's of GB.

DV format input will not be converted except where filters or transitions are used.

Focusing on encoding a DV timeline for 1 hour and 41 mins you have two choices, CBR or VBR with a similar average bitrate.

Calculation shows average bitrate ~5800 Kbps for 224 MPeg2 or AC-3 audio. You might want to back off to 5500 or so.

How do you intend to author this DVD?

In my experience, this takes 3-5 hours for a 2.4 GHz P4 CPU. The encoder should give you an estimate.

"There is a long 10 minute scene that uses the most FX in the whole project, and I know it must be during that it fails, or at least around there. "

Try it without the effects and see if everything else works. Then try the effects and tell us what you are doing and what happened.

[MTD]

Alright, thanks. I'm going to author it with DVD Architect 3.

Do the drop down menus go as low as 5500? I can't check right now, Vegas is rendering something else. From memory, the menus drop down and present like 3 options, which seem to not even be close to a number of 5500.

I think my computer is a P4, but only 1.2GHz, which probably explains the long encoding time.

[crazy14muzic]

if you use the vbr setting use the average bps one. the cbr one self explanatory but for any instance anytime that a bitrate calculator gives you a four digit KBPS number you need to add 3 zeros to it

you can input any number you wish just make sure that it is 7 digit in this instance

[edDV]

P4 1.4 is very slow in this context.

My suggestion is to get the effects done before you encode to MPeg2. You most likely will want to make changes before you encode.


Add 2x time for MPeg2 encoding only or 6-10hrs.
Effects could add considerable time so do those first and save which preserves the temp files..

This is all so 2002 deja vu.

[MTD]

Thank you crazy, that is what I had suspected.

And yes Ed, I know it's extremely slow, but it's all I can work with for now. What do you mean get the effects done before I encode? As in rendering them first separately?

Mine isn't really FX heavy. There are some fade ins and outs, 3 additive dissolves near the end, some speeding up of video...that's about it. There is a lot of music throughout it though.

[edDV]

Thank you crazy, that is what I had suspected.

And yes Ed, I know it's extremely slow, but it's all I can work with for now. What do you mean get the effects done before I encode? As in rendering them first separately?

Mine isn't really FX heavy. There are some fade ins and outs, 3 additive dissolves near the end, some speeding up of video...that's about it. There is a lot of music throughout it though.

Do the effects as step 1 and evaluate that is the result what you want. Then save. Then encode to MPeg2.

[MTD]

I prerendered them last night to .avi files. I have a feeling I probably should have prerendered them to .mpegs...

[edDV]

I prerendered them last night to .avi files. I have a feeling I probably should have prerendered them to .mpegs...

If you just render to the timeline, only the effects are rendered. The remainder has no generation loss.

Encode to MPeg2 only when the timeline is finished to your liking.

[MTD]

Okay, I messed up the prerender thing last night, but it doesn't matter now.

This is really weird...I started to encode the project, and I got home tonight and it was only at 47%, but very close to the end of the video. So with two minutes left, it was at 49%. Then the video finished after 8 hours and 40 mins. The video has now started rendering again. Says it has 8 hours and 40 mins left, and when the video ended it just went to 50%. Which means it's doing it twice. Why?! The two pass option doesn't cause this, does it?

[edDV]

Okay, I messed up the prerender thing last night, but it doesn't matter now.

This is really weird...I started to encode the project, and I got home tonight and it was only at 47%, but very close to the end of the video. So with two minutes left, it was at 49%. Then the video finished after 8 hours and 40 mins. The video has now started rendering again. Says it has 8 hours and 40 mins left, and when the video ended it just went to 50%. Which means it's doing it twice. Why?! The two pass option doesn't cause this, does it?

That is exactly what two pass is.

First pass analyzes the video scene by scene in order to optimize to the desired average bitrate, then the real encoding is done in the second pass.

High motion scenes get more bitrate, still scenes get less. Results are dramatically better if you use a tripod when you shoot. Hand held camcorders are always in motion.

[MTD]

Arg. Okay after 17 some odd hours, it's done. Looks great. One problem. The file size is 4.11 gigs. Slightly too big. Especially considering I was hoping to stick in a menu. I know DVD Architect has a slider to fit the video and stuff on the disc...but...man.

I really would hate to reencode that all over again.

[MTD]

Alright, looks like I'll have redo the damn thing. The bitrate I used was 5,500,000 kbps. That came out to 4.11 gigs.

So if I want to make that smaller and leave enough space for a menu, what should I set the bitrate at?

[edDV]

You should have plenty of room for a menu without reencoding. Just don't go wild with motion and PCM audio.

Experiment + Plan ahead.

[MTD]

You mean if I use the encode I just did, I should have room that and a menu? 'Cause if so, DVD Architect says it's too big. And it *is* over 4.7 gigs. So..?