Quality

[GreenStang511]

I just recently bought a miniDV recorder. After reading several reviews I went with one that was inexpensive and it seems to be good bang for the buck. Questions though, after reading all the reviews on different models, it seems as if they all more or less had comments about the digital video recorders not being up to snuff. After recording with mine I do see what they mean. Why is it that these miniDV recorders don't have the same quality as the old VHS cams? You'd think new technology would be better, no? Do you have to spend and buy more of a high end miniDV to get the same quality?

[bits]

I have owned a VHS Video recorder and a Canon 8mm camcorder. Recently I purchased a miniDV camcorder and the quality of the video is significantly better than the VHS or 8mm. I paid $700 for my miniDV camcorder, which I think makes it medium priced.

BTW I am assuming you are viewing the video from your miniDV camera before conversion, is that correct?

[GreenStang511]

Yeah actually when the lighting is good, the video on the miniDV looks great! I also look great when the miniDV is hooked up to TV. It doesn't look as good once it is brought into the computer. I have use 3 different programs and tried capturing in different formats, but it just does not look as good. My computer is relatively new. Is there possibly a stellar program out there that will do the capture justice? Is it the fact that I am using USB to transfer? I'm very new to all this.

[jagabo]

Yeah actually when the lighting is good, the video on the miniDV looks great! I also look great when the miniDV is hooked up to TV. It doesn't look as good once it is brought into the computer.

Computer monitors have very different gamma curves than television. Video normally looks dark and low contrast on a computer. You probably also have interlace issues. Video from the camcorder is fully interlaced. On the software you're using doesn't deinterlace for display you'll see interlace comb lines. If the software does deinterlace you'll see other types of artifacts.

None of this effects the quality of the video in the file. If you copy the file to DV tape or burn a DVD from it, it will look just like the original on TV.

Most inexpensive DV camcorders don't perform well in dim lighting. The cheap CCD's they use add a lot of noise.

The last problem you might be having -- are you capturing on the computer via a Firewire (IEEE 1394) cable? If you're capturing via a USB port you're probably getting a low resolution version of the video. USB 1.1 is too slow to capture the full D1 DV stream.

[GreenStang511]

Oh that is good to know. Problem is, I haven't been able to burn a DVD yet that will work on my player in my family room. The DVD will play fine on both my DVD drives in my computer. I have a Phillips Magnovox DVD825 from 1998. It's a bit old but says it supports DVD/VCD/CD. It talk about the mpeg-2 format being the format. It takes DVD-R media. The only burns that work in that player are movies/concerts that I have imported with DVDShrink and then burned with Nero. The video from the camcorder, burned/capture with Nero simply just won't play. SO, I cannot tell if the quality is the same.

[GreenStang511]

One other thing, I am using USB. What is a prgram like AVIcodec that I can use to analyze the mpg file. I definitly want to see if I am getting the quality!

Also, should I be capturing directly to mpeg-2 or to AVI first and then converting somehow? I've tried both and let Nero do its thing for DVD but still doesn't play.

[Richard_G]

USB on a MiniDV camcorder is for transferring stills and low quality webcam type video(usually something like 320 x 240 instead of full frame 720 x 480). That's why your results look so poxy, because they are! The only way to do it is to transfer over Firewire (i-Link, IEEE 1394). Note, transfer. A Firewire transfer is exactly that, a bit for bit file transfer from one storage medium (tape) to another (hard drive).

You can't simply burn mpegs and expect a DVD player to be able to do anything with them. See What Is DVD at top left to see the file structure needed. You can either transfer to DV avi using something like WinDV, encode with CCE or Mainconcept and author with something like TDA or start off with something that holds your hand. Download the 30 day free trial of Ulead DVD Moviefactory from www.ulead.com and have a play with that.

Once you have an idea on the process and mechanism behind it, then start to experiment to fine tune your results.

[GreenStang511]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I should go buy a firewire card. As for the actual burning of the DVD, Nero does create all the appropriate .ifo .vob etc ... but it still doesn't play.

[bits]

Are you sure your DVD player will play the type of DVDs your creating? Are you burning +R or -R? Many older DVD players will not play +R DVDs.

Also, make sure that you are choosing NTSC if your DVD player is for the USA and PAL if elsewhere.

[GreenStang511]

I am using the correct media DVD-R. I also verified that the same exact files are on the DVD when burned that are on DVDs that I have burned from movies. So theoretically it should work.

[edDV]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I should go buy a firewire card. As for the actual burning of the DVD, Nero does create all the appropriate .ifo .vob etc ... but it still doesn't play.

It would help if you identified your camcorder model and software including versions.

1. Transfer your video over IEEE-1394 (firewire). I suggest you use WinDV because it helps you to understand the process. Expect 13.5 GB per hour or DV video to the hard drive file.

2. If you are using NeroVision Express, import the file, and create an experimental DVD. Don't get fancy, just assemble some clips and export to DVD (MPeg2 encode) using the highest quality settings.

Report back on your progress.

[GreenStang511]

I have a Panasonic PV-GS35. I've used Nero Vision to capture and burn. I tried 2 things. First was a capture to mpeg-2, then menu creation and then burn all with Nero. Second I captured to AVI with Windows Movie Maker, then imported to Nero Vision, then created menu, and then burned with Nero. The outcome was the same...a DVD with the correct files on it that played in my computers Sony DVD Writer and the DVD player that came with my Dell. The DVDs fails to play in the stand alone Phillips Magnavox DVD825 (DVD/VCD/CD) player from 1998 which states that it supports DVD-R and mpeg-2. Also, movies created with DVDShrink and burned with Nero work fine in that player. I don't have a firewire card so I cannot experiment with that at this time. I'm looking to buy one though.

[mats.hogberg]

Your process should be divided into many steps:
1) Transfer the DV video to your computer (WinDV)
2) Encode to DVD specs mpg - many options available here -see mpeg encoders in the tools list.
3) Author the mpg as DVD - again, many options available. A good balance between ease of use and what it can do, comes in TMPGEnc DVD Author
4) Burn it to DVD media. TDA is rather good at this too (atleast on my system).
You're trying to use Nero for all these steps, and for each step, Nero would be the last tool I'd choose. There are simply so many (most free!) tools for each step that are so much better at performing them than Nero.
Also, if you don't use a tripod or similar when filming, the bitrate requirements are very high for a "home video", in the DV to mpg step.
You shouldn't compare the VHS quality of old times to what you see on the final DVD, as the video has been processed in so many ways, the outcome of which very much depends on how and with what it's performed. Compare it to the DV AVI quality to make it fair.

/Mats

[GreenStang511]

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Does it matter what type of Firewire card I buy? Are they all pretty much the same?

[mats.hogberg]

If it works, it works, but as with everything, you basically get what you pay for, meaning a cheap card may suddenly die sooner than a more expensive option. However, there's no difference in the "transfer quality".

/Mats

[edDV]

I have a Panasonic PV-GS35. I've used Nero Vision to capture and burn. I tried 2 things. First was a capture to mpeg-2, then menu creation and then burn all with Nero. Second I captured to AVI with Windows Movie Maker, then imported to Nero Vision, then created menu, and then burned with Nero. The outcome was the same...a DVD with the correct files on it that played in my computers Sony DVD Writer and the DVD player that came with my Dell. The DVDs fails to play in the stand alone Phillips Magnavox DVD825 (DVD/VCD/CD) player from 1998 which states that it supports DVD-R and mpeg-2. Also, movies created with DVDShrink and burned with Nero work fine in that player. I don't have a firewire card so I cannot experiment with that at this time. I'm looking to buy one though.

So is your concern that the DVD has playback errors but you are happy with very low quality or are you looking to get good quality off that camcorder? These are two different problems and solutions.

If you want to use the highly compressed low quality USB stream (one step above a webstream) you need to upconvert that to DVD standard.

If you want quality audio and video, you will capture via firewire with WinDV or NeroVision to DV format. You will then edit and output to DVD MPeg standard at the encoding quality you desire.

[GreenStang511]

I guess my goal is both. I want to get the best video I can from that cam. I am going to purchase the firewire card and try using some of these freeware programs that you all suggest. I am not sure, however, if this will solve my family room DVD player issue. I'll let you know how it goes after all my experiments in about a week.

[edDV]

I guess my goal is both. I want to get the best video I can from that cam. I am going to purchase the firewire card and try using some of these freeware programs that you all suggest. I am not sure, however, if this will solve my family room DVD player issue. I'll let you know how it goes after all my experiments in about a week.

Assuming you start with a DV-AVI transfer, that would depend on the DVD authoring software you use. Nerovision should work but it is near the bottom of the pack.