QUALITY of Toast compression

[ff8123]

Hey all, just wondering what your opinions are about Toast's video compression quality. Personaly I've found that when I compress a DVD to fit a single Layer disc using DVD Shrink, I get a better frinished product after burning.

When toast does this the picture has those little compression squares.Dont get me wrong, it is still watchable and is still better looking than SVCD, but I think DVD Shrink's compression just comes out better.

Does anyone agree/disagree with me?

[thoughton]

Totally agree. Toast's video compression is pretty awful. I also use Shrink on my PC and it works well. The integrated rip and burn is also very nice. On the Mac side of things a dedicated transcoder like DVD2OneX can match the picture quality, bu there is no all-in-one app which produces results that are as good as Shrink's.

[Kryton]

I've tried using Toast 7 to move iMovie DV content to mpeg2 using both automatic and manual settings. The quality is poor IMO.

[chikanakan]

I've tried using Toast 7 to move iMovie DV content to mpeg2 using both automatic and manual settings. The quality is poor IMO.

Poor compared to what?

[Noella]

I too am not satified with the quality of Toast. That's why I'm trying to find another way to encoding my movies. I find that the images while mostly good, have some "square blocks" no matter how high or low I set the compression.

[chikanakan]

Welcome to DV->MPEG-2 compression. Toast uses the MainConcept encoder which is about as good as it gets on the Mac. Only other options are ffmpeg (free), DVD Studio Pro ($500), BitVice ($300), and maybe a couple other high end programs. But, you will waste more time then it's worth, in my opinion, trying to get good quality out of any of them.

You could also try iDVD, but the quality is bad.

To get the best quality in Toast, you really need to use custom settings, set the motion estimation to best and turn Half PEL on. This will give the highest quality.

[DeadLily]

Only other options are ffmpeg (free), DVD Studio Pro ($500), BitVice ($300), and maybe a couple other high end programs. But, you will waste more time then it's worth, in my opinion, trying to get good quality out of any of them.

I've been using Bitvice for a couple of years, after getting unusable results from Toast. I've had no complaints yet. Toast is as good as it gets? I don't think so. Toast would be my last choice for mp2 compression.

[Frobozz]

Toast is as good as it gets? I don't think so. Toast would be my last choice for mp2 compression.

I usually avoid these subjective arguments, but if you haven't used Toast in 2 years you were using Toast 6. Toast 7 has the MainConcept MPEG encoder which is very highly regarded. If you really mean that Toast 7 would be your last choice for mp2 compression then you're just showing bias.

Meanwhile, two issues are getting mixed in this thread. The thread began by comparing Toast 7's requantizing compression to fit DL DVDs to single-layer media and then switched to Toast 6 or 7's MPEG 2 encoding quality. These are different. If you are seeing blocking from Toast's fit-to-DVD feature it has nothing to do with the quality of Toast's MPEG encoder.

[Kryton]

Yep, it's my fault for throwing the 'DV to mpeg2' question into the bag. Sorry for that.

chikanakan. I was comparing to iDVD 5. I did some testing with a short project and got something I was very happy with. Toast 7 in contrast was a very poor performer (motion, colour shift, noise).

Unfortunately my mac is way below the minimum specs for iDVD5 and locks up (totally) with bigger projects. That's why I took the project over to someone who had Toast 7 to see what the MainConcept coder could do.

[SERBIAN]

MainConcept encoder can do a lot, but you'll have to get yourself PRO version...

http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_macencoder.shtml

249$

Also, if you are lookin pro MPEG encoding solution dont forget to check Digigami...That company was the first one which brought MPEG1/MPEG2 encoding on a Mac loooong time ago /1994./...

http://www.digigami.com/

[macuser25]

Toast includes the exact same encoder.

The PRO software from MC is just a GUI on top of their Mac MPEG SDK. Toast 7 has the same SDK and offers encoding options in automatic mode and custom mode - where you can control bit rate, motion estimation, field order, as well as set additional items not provided by MC, such as audio settings of PCM or Dolby Digital.

[SERBIAN]

I dont agree, but whatever...

[Kryton]

I haven't tried the MainConcept encoder but would have thought that the configuration options would go way past what Toast 7 allows you to do (even if it's the same encoder under the hood).

I do have the Digigami QT component (the trial version) installed but its options are vast and seem to be only partly documented (although I didn't have much time to investigate further).

It managed to finish an encode but with an unexpected quit at the end. The results were nothing special but that is definitely due to me not knowing how to set all the options correctly. It looks like it could output some good quality mpeg2 but I just haven't had time to dig into all those configuration options yet.

[chikanakan]

Well, if you want better quality then what you are getting, I suggest moving away from DV.

[ff8123]

Well, if you want better quality then what you are getting, I suggest moving away from DV.

Aye. So basicallt we all agree then that toast is a bad compressor program.

Is DVD2OneX any better or no?

Maybe i should just get a Dual Layer Burner?

[chikanakan]

No, I think Toast is great. I don't use DTOX anymore since it really went down the toilet with version 2. The quality difference, if any, are subjective at best. I'm more then happy with the quality of Toast (and Popcorn).

Honestly, I just burn to DL since I get the full quality anyway. If you are really anal about it, that's the only way to go.

As for the Toast 7 MPEG encoder, I think it is very good also. The MainConcept encoder has great quality and is fast. But with any encoder, some source files will work better then others. Some files may look great in Toast, not iDVD and vise-versa. I just depends on the input.

If you really want great quality, you need to dump DV and move to something better. Then you need to get a nice $100,000 hardware encoder. Ah, but maybe that's do much for some home movies or pirated DVD.

[Kryton]

This was my first attempt at movie-making. It was a Christmas thing shot in the kitchen where the light was nice and bright. The camera was a freebie that someone in the family received and is very much low-end.

Obviously, moving away from DV is not an option as that is the source content. I haven't checked but it it appears that there's no back door into the MainConcept encoder hidden under the Toast 7 interface or the encoder that iDVD uses. I would have been nice to have got access to more control over the encoding process albeit via AppleScript or some kind of command line tool.

Perhaps in the medium term I will be able to circumvent the mpeg2 problems and output to another format (perhaps mpeg4) on DVD through a player that can handle such content. Maybe things would get better quality wise. The original footage is interlaced. Would it be worth encoding to de-interlaced and using a progessive scan DVD player connected to a TFT TV?

[KeepItSimple]

Aye. So basicallt we all agree then that toast is a bad compressor program.

Nope I like the job Toast 7 does unless someone can tell me what settings to use in DVD2oneX to get better.

[ff8123]

I dont know what DV is... i thought it meant digital video...

Anyway, I thougyht we all agreed DVD shrink does better compression than toast. No?

[Frobozz]

I dont know what DV is... i thought it meant digital video...

Anyway, I thougyht we all agreed DVD shrink does better compression than toast. No?

When you say "wa all agree" you're meaning just those who have compared DVD Shrink to Toast 7 or Popcorn for compressing DL DVDs to single-layer media, right? In that case I'm not part of "we" so I'm ineligible to agree. Since I'm part of this thread I cringe when you say "we all agree" on this comparison.

[KeepItSimple]

Anyway, I thougyht we all agreed DVD shrink does better compression than toast. No?

Did I miss something or is DVDshrink for PC only?

[ff8123]

Yes DVD Shrink is for PC Only. Yes the ONLY thing I wanted to accomplish in this thread was find out if anyone else thinks that Toast 7's COMPRESSSION (NOT Encoding) is of a decent quality. Personaly I think there are too many compression squares, so I compress with my pc, and burn with my mac. I have this option.

So who has used toast to compress from DVD 9 to DVD 5, and how did it come out, I find it to come out pretty poor.

[KeepItSimple]

I have used toast to compress DVD 9 to DVD 5 and they look great to me when viewed on a 27 or 32" direct view screen. I don't really see any of the compression squares you talk about although I guess they are there.

[ff8123]

I have used toast to compress DVD 9 to DVD 5 and they look great to me when viewed on a 27 or 32" direct view screen. I don't really see any of the compression squares you talk about although I guess they are there.

Perhaps I need to give this another look then.