Formats and software search

[surplus]

Hi, totally new and a blank slate to this, so forgive me if I am in the wrong forum- dont know ripping questions from authoring ones! Been doing a lot of research regarding formats in order to take my home movies, edit them, and play them on dvd player. Also wanting to purchase versatile software to make this all possible (need to find the right format first). I am working with VOB files, which seem to be hard to edit, and limit my choices of software tremendously.
What is the best, most versatile, and progressive (as in not outdated tomorrow) format to convert to in order to edit and make dvds? Will be playing them mostly on the player, not HD.
Is DivX a good choice, or MPEG4, or AVI? I like the idea of smaller files, these babies are taking up a lot of room. An editing software that is reasonably priced and able to convert to suggested format is also a welcome suggestion-not ready to spend a fortune until I see what I really use. I am working with Windows XP. Thanks for any help!

[mats.hogberg]

Well, most "home movies" are DV AVI natively (DV cameras) and best kept in that format while edited.
When all editing is done, and you have a DV version of your movie, encode the DV AVI to DVD specs mpg, which you then author as Video DVD (which in the process will multiplex the mpg as VOB).
If you start with VOB's, you either have a DVD recording camera, or are doing things completely backwards!
I'd not suggest "versatile" software, as editing, encoding and authoring are completely different processes, and best handled by specialized software.

/Mats

[Krispy Kritter]

Since you are working with VOB files and wanting the output to be DVD compliant, then you should leave the files as mpeg2. They are already dvd compliant mpeg2 inside the VOB files and they will need to remain the same for your output to DVD.

[Baldrick]

Mpeg video wizard
Tmpgenc dvd author
videoredo
can all edit vobs.

or just search for edit dvd and you will get several useful tips like
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=290905&highlight=edit+dvd

[gadgetguy]

You have a lot of reading to do.
The basic steps are

Capture - get the video onto your computer
Edit - cutting, merging, transitions, SFX, etc.
Encode - Compress to the desired format. For DVD see What Is DVD on the left.
Author - Prepare menus, create proper file structure
Burn - Write it to the blank media.

Capturing will depend on the hardware. If possible, if you are going to be doing complex editing then you want to use a lossless or near lossless compression such as Huffy or DV-AVI.

There are a great number of tools for editing. Some work better with some formats than others so it's important to "know your source". In general VOB files are in a "finished product" format that does not lend itself well to editing beyond simple cuts.

As with editing, there are many encoders. Some free some pay, some with very high quality, some with high speed. You need to decide what features are most important to you.

Authoring also has several options depending on your requirements. DVDAuthor is free but requires more effort/knowledge from the user than an inexpensive Authoring program like TDA, although TDA does not allow for subtitles.

The tools that I use

Capture - WinDV to capsfer from my DV camcorder
Edit - Avisynth and VirtualDub
Encode - QuEnc for MPG2
Author - TDA
Burn - Nero or TDA

You say that you are working with VOBs, how did they get on your hard drive in the first place?

[surplus]

Hi again,
Sorry, I guess I did confuse you by leaving out one step. These were originally older VHS tapes that I recently burned to DVD using a new Panasonic burner (therefore the VOBs). I would like to edit, combine, add transitions, change menus, etc.
But I have found that the VOBs take up a lot of room on my computer and are rather limited in the software that will work with them, therefore my questions. Hopefully that makes more sense.

[mats.hogberg]

Ah - DVD Recorder captures! You really shouldn't compress them more - There are some tools for mpeg editing that works without reencoding the video like Womble Video Wizard - and not reencoding is really important here!

/Mats

[surplus]

I guess you are saying this would be a little like zipping up a zip file? And I wouldnt be happy with results?

[gadgetguy]

I guess you are saying this would be a little like zipping up a zip file? And I wouldnt be happy with results?

Kind of, but when you attempt to zip a zip, it won't compress further if it will destroy the contents. Encoders will compress already compressed video without regard to the destruction of the contents.
Only you can determine if you're happy with the results, but I wouldn't be.

[kschang]

Sort of. VOB files are MPEGs inside a 'container", and MPEG is a lossy compression format. Every time you recompress (re-encode) you lose something. So the idea is to touch the content as little as possible. In fact, it's best to work from ORIGINAL uncompressed raw stream as much as possible. When that is not possible, we want to edit the MPEG by directly cutting and editing the stream instead of needing to reencode it.

[mats.hogberg]

I guess you are saying this would be a little like zipping up a zip file? And I wouldnt be happy with results?

ZIP compression is non destructive - you can always unpack it and bit for bit get back what you put in.
mpg compression actually removes bits and pieces - try with a photo in BMP format - this is uncompressed version, the original video. Save it as a JPG at medium compression/quality setting. This is what you have on the DVD. Load it back and compare to the BMP, and you see the difference. Repeatedly save the JPG out and reload it back, and you'll see that for every "generation" it gets worse and worse. Every save as JPG corresponds to a reencoding pass.

/Mats

[surplus]

So, if I understand right from what you guys are telling me, I should work with the VOB file as is if possible. Would a software program that can handle VOBs without conversion cause the quality to deteriorate? Would it be changing the quality to cut out original scenes, add transitions and effects between segments, and add menus? I would not be changing the original scenes, right, just adding to them?

[gadgetguy]

Yes. As much as possible you want to avoid re-encoding. Most editors designed to work with mpg can handle VOB level cuts without re-encoding at all. They do transitions as well, and try to preserve quality by only encoding at the actual transition point. This most often works, but can sometimes have less than desirable results.
Menus and chapters are part of authoring and don't re-encode.