Which WinTV PVR?

[wgb113]

I would like to record sporting events and TV shows and archive them onto DVD at a quality equal to broadcast when played back.

My two choices seem to be a stand-alone DVD-Recorder with built-in hard drive or a TV Tuner card such as those available from Hauppage. I like the idea of the TV Tuner card because I've already got a large (250GB) external hard drive and a built-in DVD burner. I am not sure if the rest of my PC is up to snuff however:

Compaq Evo D510 Desktop
Chipset: Intel 845G
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 1.8GHz (512KB L2 Cache, 400MHz FSB)
RAM: 512MB
Video: Integrated Intel Extreme Graphics
Audio: Integrated Intel Audio

It seems that all of the WinTV capture cards require a sound card (likely a better one than my integrated) and all models other than the PVR-150 also require a video card that supports video overlay.

These two issues seem to be the roadblocks for me. If I were to upgrade to separate audio and video cards which WinTV PVR is the best choice? I've got Comcast Digital Cable and would also like the ability to transfer non-digital home movies made with an old Hi-8 camcorder as well as old VHS tapes.

Thanks,
Bill

[jagabo]

It seems that all of the WinTV capture cards require a sound card (likely a better one than my integrated)

Only to hear what you've captured. Your integrated audio should work fine.

and all models other than the PVR-150 also require a video card that supports video overlay.

Just about every video card supports overlay now. I don't think it's really even necessary with the WinTV PVR series.

which WinTV PVR is the best choice?

USB2? This is largely a matter of taste. Your computer should be able to handle any of the PVR series. USB2 won't require opening up the computer (assuming you have USB2 already).

The PVR-150 used to have some audio problems on some computers. Don't know if this ever got fixed. Be sure you can return the card in case the problem persists.

I have the PVR-250 and like it. It's not really available any more though.

[edDV]

The internal PCI cards are supported by a wider range of 3rd party software. USB2 connections are non standard and therefore more proprietary.

Main issue is to get a device that encodes in hardware including audio if sound sync is important. They are a bit more expensive but solve most of the frustrating issues.

[FulciLives]

If you want internal go with the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 model. This model has been proven to work and work well.

The slightly cheaper Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 model is newer but has several undesirable "issues" so it is to be avoided.

The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 seems to work the same as the 250 model as I believe it is basically the same inside BUT it does add A/V outputs but these are limited to MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 and only with MP2 audio (possibly also PCM WAV but definately not AC-3 or DTS). The quality of these outputs is nicer than that of any video card's TV out and is handy if you intend to ever record programs to watch once, then delete (aka time shifting) as it saves you having to burn the file to a DVD-R/RW etc.

I've heard both bad and good (but mostly good) about the Haupauge WinTV PVR USB2 unit (which is the external USB 2.0 version).

My own personal experience was with using a WinTV PVR 150. The software (which is basically the same no mater what hardware version you get) was easy-to-use. You could select your video bitrate (CBR or on-the-fly VBR) as well as audio bitrate (MP2 only for locked audio support but you could select standard 224kbps or up to 384kbps). Overall I was happy for the most part except for issues that the 150 model have that the other models do not have. I returned the 150 and thought of getting a 250 model but in the end I bought a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD (the Pioneer DVR-531H-s model).

Some notes about the Hauppauge WinTV PVR units.

Only capture MP2 audio if you want locked audio support. I suggest using 384kbps for DVD creation. VCD and SVCD need 224kbps MP2 to be compliant.

You will probably want to edit (trim the start and end and cut out TV commercials etc.) but some report loss of audio sync when doing this. The two best MPEG editers are MPEG-VCR and VideoRedo. Some seem to think that VideoRedo works best with the Hauppauge cards. This may be the case but in my limited testing of the 150 (I had it for 2 weeks or so but recorded a lot and tested a lot then) I used MPEG-VCR. I would use MPEG-VCR to edit then I also used it to demultiplex so I had a separate video and audio file. I would then convert the 384kbps MP2 to PCM WAV ... normalize ... then convert to AC-3 format. I would then join the video and ac-3 audio file with TMPGEnc DVD Author. I never had sync issues.

Here is one excellent website dedicated to the Hauppauge WinTV PVR cards ---> CLICK HERE

Good Luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
One benefit of a stand alone DVD recorder is that you get AC-3 audio. You can edit on the HDD (if you get a model with a built-in HDD) and/or you can also edit on the computer once you copy the content over.

For instance I usually just trim the start and end points on the DVD recorder's HDD then copy to a DVD-RW ... rip the DVD-RW to my computer ... use MPEG-VCR to edit out the commercials ... then re-author to a DVD-R using TMPGEnc DVD Author. I then ERASE the DVD-RW for the next round.

[mike909]

I recently put together a HTPC and used the wintv-500mce with xppro. I have not yet had any audio sync issues, and can burn tv shows directly to dvd w/ out commercials (using gbpvr). I have yet to capture from a vhs source, but don't see that being a problem. Your soundcard is fine, I'm using intergrated/onboard audio as well w/ out problems.
the wintv-500mce is dual tuner (can record one thing while watching another) and I doubt video overlay would be an issue for you either.

[FulciLives]

I have yet to capture from a vhs source, but don't see that being a problem. Your soundcard is fine, I'm using intergrated/onboard audio as well w/ out problems.

This reminds me of something I forgot to mention.

The Hauppauge WinTV PVR series is known to have trouble capturing from VHS tapes that are not "clean". If they are even the slight bit unstable or recorded in EP/SLP mode etc. then you really should consider using a Full Frame TBC such as the AVT-8710

Another similiar device that I tried was the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which is an external USB 2.0 device that is a hardware MPEG converter ala the Hauppauge WinTV PVR cards.

The quality of the ADS was slightly better and it handled poor VHS tapes extremely well without the need for a TBC. However it was VERY limited to unattended scheduled recordings which made it unusable for me.

I think the ADS is better especially with VHS tapes (when not using a TBC) but it lacks scheduling options so ... I guess that is the "catch".

BTW none of the Hauppuage cards and units recognize copy protection. This goes for the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 as well.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[wgb113]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

John,

How much better do you like your stand-alone Pioneer unit compared to the process/results you had with the WinTV capture card? I'm really torn between the two options.

Thanks,
Bill

[FulciLives]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

John,

How much better do you like your stand-alone Pioneer unit compared to the process/results you had with the WinTV capture card? I'm really torn between the two options.

Thanks,
Bill

If you want to capture direct to MPEG-2 DVD format then I say get a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD.

I say this for a couple of reasons.

1.) With a good unit the stand alone will give better results and all stand alone units should record in either PCM (1 hour mode) or AC-3 whereas all of the computer based MPEG-2 DVD capture cards only do MP2 (except for one that is very new and so expensive you might as well just buy a stand alone DVD recorder with a bulit-in HDD).

2.) If you have multiple computers this might not be a big deal but I like the fact that the computer is not always "tied up" recording this tv show or that tv show etc. plus the stand alone offers better/easier ability to watch your recording over a TV instantly. No needing the computer by the TV with a TV out or needing to burn to a DVD-RW etc. For time shifting (record, watch once, delete) you can't beat the stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD.

3.) Editing seems to work better with the stand alone DVD recorders. You can edit on the unit if you want or you can copy to a DVD-RW for instance, import to the computer, and edit there. The MPEG stream seems to be more "stable" with the stand alone units and loss of sync due to editing seems to be non-existant.

4.) With the stand alone you can burn to a DVD-R and be done with it if you want OR you have the ability to copy to a DVD-RW for instance and import to a computer for further editing and or custom authoring.

The only real "downside" I see to using a stand alone DVD recorder VS a MPEG hardware card for a computer is this ... just about all of the DVD recorders will recognize copy protection. No way to copy a copy protected source unless you use additional hardware (like a Full Frame TBC). Many of the computer based MPEG hardware cards will ignore copy protection.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[The_Doman]

"The Hauppauge WinTV PVR series is known to have trouble capturing from VHS tapes that are not "clean". If they are even the slight bit unstable or recorded in EP/SLP mode etc. then you really should consider using a Full Frame TBC such as the AVT-8710

There indeed some issues with the newer Hauppauge PVR series.
Hi8 tape causes PVR-150 picture break-up

Oh just to let you know:
The audio line-in and "Too white" issue's are still not solved.. (no surprise)

[jagabo]

Oh just to let you know:
The audio line-in and "Too white" issue's are still not solved.. (no surprise)

Wow, those have been a problems for a year now!

[The_Doman]

Oh just to let you know:
The audio line-in and "Too white" issue's are still not solved.. (no surprise)

Wow, those have been a problems for a year now!

Yeah, and what a fun do we have with it.

Open Letter to Hauppauge Driver Engineers re. PVR-150 audio clipping issue.

[jagabo]

Oh just to let you know:
The audio line-in and "Too white" issue's are still not solved.. (no surprise)

Wow, those have been a problems for a year now!

Yeah, and what a fun do we have with it. :D :D :D

Open Letter to Hauppauge Driver Engineers re. PVR-150 audio clipping issue.

They probably lost (or more likely fired, to save money) the engineers who knew anything about the hardware and are now left with just a bunch of junior programmers who don't have a clue about how to deal with the hardware. Management thinks they just get drivers from the chip manufactures so they don't need those expensive senior engineers.

And ouch! That sample WAV file was painful!

[ChillBill]

does anyone know if the pvr 150mce have the same problems as the other pvr 150?

specifically the pic break up with hi-8 tapes

[The_Doman]

does anyone know if the pvr 150mce have the same problems as the other pvr 150?

specifically the pic break up with hi-8 tapes

The PVR150 (retail) and the 150MCE are based on exactly the same hardware and will have the same problems.
Only real difference are the extra radio tuner and cinch audio connectors on the MCE version.