HD DVD flopped at CES

[lgh529]

LAS VEGAS - It was supposed to be the grand unveiling of a new generation in home entertainment when Kevin Collins of Microsoft Corp. popped an HD DVD disc into a Toshiba production model and hit "play." Nothing happened.

The failed product demo at this week's International Consumer Electronics Show was hardly an auspicious start for the HD DVD camp in what's promising to be a nasty, drawn-out technology format war reminiscent of the Betamax/VHS video tape battle.

Backers of the two rival high definition DVD formats are betting that the millions of people shelling out thousands of dollars for new high-def TVs and home theater sound systems will spend a few hundred more for new DVD players and discs that offer sharp pictures and interactive features.

Analysts say the early adopters, those who rush out and buy whatever new technology becomes available, will jump right in and pay $1,800 for a Blu-ray player from Pioneer or $499 for the Toshiba HD DVD player.

But a prolonged struggle between the two incompatible formats may mean consumers have a long wait for a clear winner to emerge, potentially delaying widespread adoption of high-def DVDs for years.

"There's no question that a format war is not a good idea," Howard Stringer, chairman and chief executive officer of Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news)., said this week. Sony is a developer and backer of the Blu-ray format.

.... blah blah blah, etc

For the whole story, click here.

They probably should have tested it out before hand.

[lumis]

$1,800 for a bluray player? i'll wait until june-september and purchase myself a playstation 3.. which will probably range in price from $300-$400.. not only will i have a bluray player, but i'll have a playstation 3.

[adam]

This reminds of that clip of Bill Gates and Michael Dell unveiling the next version of windows (2k? I forget) and they got a BSOD. But getting beta software to run on a beta OS is a hell of alot tougher than just getting a DVD player to play a DVD. Now that's bad.

[RabidDog]

Wull, if you're too cheap skate to pay 1800 for the player you sure aint gonna buy any of the films @ $55 a go

[henry_nettles]

Pardon me while I sit on my money. I am not impressed with either format, especially not at that price, and with DRM thrown in, I bet I can live without it for a long time.

[SilverBlade]

I'm going to sit on the sidelines until one format wins, but I really hope both loose.

DRM is Damn Restriction Madness. Nothing else.

[lumis]

here come the drm cry babies..

dvd's & vhs tapes have DRM, it's just very weak.. there will be enough interest in bluray that i'm sure the protections will be cracked.. i'm going to get a playstation 3/bluray player.. i've got a 1080p hdtv and i need a format that will use it to its maximum.. if you guys want to stick around in the stoneage with dvd's crying about DRM, go right ahead..

and as far as $55 a movie, i'm sure the price will go down as with everything.. remember how much dvd-r's used to cost? hell, a more recent example is dvd+r DL.. it used to be $15/disc.. now you can find them on special for about $2/disc..

[paulw]

This reminds of that clip of Bill Gates and Michael Dell unveiling the next version of windows (2k? I forget) and they got a BSOD. But getting beta software to run on a beta OS is a hell of alot tougher than just getting a DVD player to play a DVD. Now that's bad.

It was Windoz 98. A video of it made the rounds very quickly

[whitejremiah]

omg....55 bux for a movie? i'll be passing on that until those prices DO drop...as for the copy protection, i'll give it a fair six months...there's definately enough interest to get the copy protection on these things ditched that im sure it will happen...most likely before i buy a player.......if i had a large enough harddrive, too...i'd wait till they DO get the protection broken, and dump the discs to my harddrive and convert to HD Divx and just buy a HD divx compatable dvd player, and run the movies that way...at least then i wouldnt have to fork out a TON of money for the player.....and i'll definately be buying the movies to do this with, used.

[waheed]

Pardon me while I sit on my money. I am not impressed with either format, especially not at that price, and with DRM thrown in, I bet I can live without it for a long time.

Same here. Movie stusios have gone mad with regards to new copy protections (especially if it requires online authentications meaning your player hooked up to a phone line). I'll stick with DVDs.

Or I'll wait and see what the results are, until prices fall and theres a hack for their protections.

[harrisonford]

My favourite out come would be if holograpghic disc made the new movies come to life with 300 Gigs Disks, and play a real 5 hour movie in 1080p and nice nine channels of surround sound, Hd-DVD and Blu-Ray are both technology losers.

HD-TV is coming, this will change TV shows into the new movies, and tv industry and movie industry will disapear into one, in fact it is already happening, the TV broadcaster should take avdanvtage of the movies suck, and be more agressive of selling TV seasons on spring weekends after tv seasons is over and run 24 hour tv season as marathon movie for a price to move Movies out of theaters, because movies stink.

And TV shows are replacing Movies right now. TV SHOWS are the new GOLD on the street for kids under 30, but hate to watch tv or don't have the time, working several jobs. SO TV SHOW INDUDTRY ....... time to eat up Hollywood sucmbags yeah it would piss them off, the movie studio's. Second fast Sub market for TV series, but TV SHOW indusry needs a complete marketing and technology process to deliver movies to pay per view to download to moving into theaters. Less movie competition more money in TV SHOW pockects. And the Movie Industry begs you for time on your network and you call the price you pay for shows, instead of the content industry, please remember to make content for us samll people reasonible, please?

TV industry, movies suck, clear the way for TV SHoWS in theaters, move or lose the advantage. you can hire me as you strategy advisor.

WHY AM I WILLING TO PAY EVREY ******* WITH CONTENT A PRICE?

get me Cable TV, Movies, Music Telephone and Internt ISP, all for the one price ... Than I will declare this company the winner, if he has a all in one price for less than $1,000,000.00 a month, ok the price is a joke and so is the content providers.

[Bob W]

I find it hard to believe they didn't have a backup player just in case.

[raffie]

...technology format war reminiscent of the Betamax/VHS video tape battle.

.... blah blah blah

Exactly.

[That Bastid]

Huh? The TV industry is the movie industry. Do you really think they're different "scumbags"? They're the same creatives, the same executives, working on the same lots.

You are right that the copying of movies will cause a continued move toward TV -- IPTV, that is. People of talent will do TV rather than movies because the thieves will hound them out of films. Folks need to make a living, and no one wants to bust their ass just to have their work stolen. But the people cashing the checks will be the same guys who were making movies the year before.


The denser DVD formats will be much less important than anyone thinks. What matters is stopping the copying, and IP-TV is the answer.

Will some people steal IP-TV? Sure, like some people steal electricity. But it gets riskier because more people go to prison--which I guess is why folks don't post angry messages about how cars need keys in the ignition before they'll start.

[Dv8ted2]

Huh? The TV industry is the movie industry. Do you really think they're different "scumbags"? They're the same creatives, the same executives, working on the same lots.

You are right that the copying of movies will cause a continued move toward TV -- IPTV, that is. People of talent will do TV rather than movies because the thieves will hound them out of films. Folks need to make a living, and no one wants to bust their ass just to have their work stolen. But the people cashing the checks will be the same guys who were making movies the year before.


The denser DVD formats will be much less important than anyone thinks. What matters is stopping the copying, and IP-TV is the answer.

Will some people steal IP-TV? Sure, like some people steal electricity. But it gets riskier because more people go to prison--which I guess is why folks don't post angry messages about how cars need keys in the ignition before they'll start.

Not really. The industry is just as guilty.

[adam]

Back to the CES story, there's no way they wouldn't have tested the hell out of the player beforehand with that specific disc, and its not like anything would have changed in the hardware in the meantime. In other words, I bet anything that one of their representatives there dropped the player in transit and just crossed his fingers that it still worked. Doh.

Or maybe someone from the blu-ray camp sabotaged it???

[Headbanger's Ball]

All this talk of HD & Blu-Ray makes <yawn> me ....... <yawn> ....want ...to....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[kush]

So, is there a video floating around of this yet, ala the Win 98 debacle? I'd love to see the look on their faces, the reaction of the audience. At least is wasn't poor Billy this time around :P - perhaps he had an inkling something like this would happen again and wanted someone else to be in the limelight for it .

Oh, and I'm with the who really gives a sh*t side on both formats - too intrusive, too expensive, and too useless (unless I run out and spend a fat chunk on a big new TV)..

[waheed]

All this talk of HD & Blu-Ray makes <yawn> me ....... <yawn> ....want ...to....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ROF]

Or maybe someone from the blu-ray camp sabotaged it???

That would be my best guess. It will be at least a year before I jump into purchasing a blu-ray stand alone. Right now, the price is too expensive and the availability of media will be quite limited. Plus, after a year of watching these two camps duel it will be easier to decide which to purchase. As with all new technology the price will be extremely high initially but in a few precious months prices will begin to drop and support will continue to grow.

[mike909]

I just got back from ces. Saw the Blue ray burner that pioneer made. Supposedly it will be released at same time (or maybe before) blue ray players...which is supposed to be q1 of 06. Only thing that surprised me was both hd-dvd and blueray players had analog component outputs on them. It was being displayed on the tv's through that connection, and the brochures I picked up have pics of the players with analog out on them...though the guy said he was not sure if that was going to stay that way or not.
Aside from that...it was a lot of yapping about why each of the respective technologies is better....kinda funny actually because the boots were all rite next to eachother.

[lumis]

@mike909, i'm sure it will stay that way.. there are a ton of people who will use and still use analog equipment.. you dont want to release a digital only product and excluse a huge chunk of your market..

[mike909]

yea i hear ya, I just thought that HDCP was the only way they were going to allow it to be viewed so people couldn't capture the signals and make copies. I havn't been following the broadcast flag scene lately so wasn't sure about it.

[whitejremiah]

if they keep the analog on there, they have just thrown all that copy protection out the window........sure, it may be macrovision protected, but that can even be broken by a TBC or a video card with the macrovision checking turned off......only thing one would need is an HDTV capture card, and hdd space...lots of it.

[adam]

They've got protection for the "analogue hole" in the works too. There's a few threads on it on this site.

[kirpen]

They've got protection for the "analogue hole" in the works too. There's a few threads on it on this site.

Starting with the fact that the "hole" wont output in hd in th first place.

[DereX888]

who cares?
Recently its rare if there are 5 movies worth buying in the entire year.
Being spoiled I will buy a hd-dvd recorder (or writer) just to test it out, most likely I will like its storage capacity etc, but i will certainly not waste a penny on any "hd-dvd player" be it HD-DVD or Blue-Ray DVD. It will take alot more than a DRM-"enhanced" HDTV content to make me consider buying a player and movies.
I bet their first movie offer will be something like "American Pie 5" or similar ridiculus crap not even worth seeing it once, much less owning...

edit: unless THEY start paying me for watching their crappy products, perhaps it'll may make it worth to invest just 2 grand for a new format player...

[edDV]

They've got protection for the "analogue hole" in the works too. There's a few threads on it on this site.

Starting with the fact that the "hole" wont output in hd in th first place.

The analog outputs will be limited to 720x480 (standard DVD resolution) for encrypted discs*. An active HDCP connection is required to get any digital HD playback.

Hopefully nonencrypted HD material will play in analog HD. The chipsets will allow this. Firmware determines player behavior.

*there is rumor of a possible Hollywood compromise at 540p (960x540 or quarter 1080p) for analog component outputs. This may just be wishfull thinking by those passing the rumor.

[goldenvirginia]

i dont know if you guys actually mean the tv and movie industry is the same now or if you just mean technolloy or actors or something but i gurantee you the movie industry is way way different to the tv industry.
firstly it takes about 2 years from the pen touching the paper to the finished scrypt for a film and a popular tv show can start a season and not know what will happen 8 episodes ahead.

the bugget aswell. is totally different. a popular sci-fi show costs about 45,000 dollars aminute when a
sci-fi film of equal importance in movie terms at about 100 mins long can cost about 1,000,000 dollars a minute.

the story telling is diffrent, the marketing is different, the camers are different, the cinamatoraphy is different, not to mention a movie can have a tleast 10 times the staff working on it.
the whole industires are completely different. jsut because we see actors casually crossing the movie and tv line as never done about 20 years ago people seem to think the industry has merged. they have never been so different.

[RLT69]

i dont know if you guys actually mean the tv and movie industry is the same now

I guess people aren't aware of this, but it is a fairly common knowledge. However, for this who don't know, I'll repeat this:

TV AND HOLLYWOOD ARE RUN BY THE SAME MEDIA COMPANIES!

Does that clear it up? Not only do media companies own the distribution channels, they also own the companies that create the content. Hell it even goes down to the level of independent films. Pretty much every major Hollywood studio has an independent film wing.

So basically, you can't screw hollywood by watching tv or screw the networks by watching movies becuase the same company owns both!