ATI All In wonder 9000 pro vs new models

[hab138]

Hi There,
I currently have a AIW radeon 9000 pro w/ 64MB to capture off an old 8mm camcorder
I've been itching to upgrade to a newer model. ie.. AIW 9600xt or 9800
since the prices of these things have been dropping as they have..

How much quality difference would there be between moving from the 9000 up to a newer model for vid cap?
or should i just save my money and get a minidv one day?
I don't play games very often and the pc is used for basic stuff and video capturing and editing.

TIA

[lordsmurf]

Nothing for video.
All the improvements were on the graphics side
Even then, most of those were for gamer nerds, not normal use..

[mikiem]

Really FWIW...

Reviews of their top o' the line aiw talk about some new features, like audio thru pci instead of cable, & dvb-t reception (if I remember correctly). There's also been talk about mp4-type compression acceleration at decent levels. At the same time, mmc 9.10 that ships with it seems to have prob. according to the same review - read into it whatever you want.

My advice would be to wait a month or 3... there will be more news and articles out, and the ati spring - summer markdowns will hopefully have started.

If you can't wait, outpost.com had white box versions cheap.

[OleTexCajun]

Lordsmurf is correct. He is the Lord of capture. His posts have helped thousands and I have been procrastinating too long...just using this and HIS site. When I saw your post, I decided to join, 'cause I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

I have both AIW9000 and 9800. The 9800 is NO better at capture. Better graphics come with a cost. Higher power and cooling requirements are not worth it for capture only. The 9000 is more reliable for me.

If you haven't visited digitalfaq.com...DO IT!!
I use CAT ver 4.12 with MMC 9.03 for both cards, and AMEN, it took me 5 years (since AIW 32 and MMC 6) to get a stable ATI setup. MMC 9.03 allows me to remap the guide for use with DIRECTV. After picking the TCM movie (90% of time) I then modify all of them for S-vid input because DIRECTV rf video output is third rate and the rf audio is MONO only.


Good Luck!

[lordsmurf]

Really FWIW...
Reviews of their top o' the line aiw talk about some new features, like audio thru pci instead of cable, & dvb-t reception (if I remember correctly). There's also been talk about mp4-type compression acceleration at decent levels. At the same time, mmc 9.10 that ships with it seems to have prob. according to the same review - read into it whatever you want. .

I think you're referring to THEATRE 550 chipped cards, and not THEATRE RAGE (100) or THEATRE 200 chipped cards. The numbered RADEON cards have the 100/200 chips, the 9000s are almost all 200s.

[mikiem]

"I think you're referring to THEATRE 550 chipped cards, and not THEATRE RAGE (100) or THEATRE 200 chipped cards. The numbered RADEON cards have the 100/200 chips, the 9000s are almost all 200s. "

I'm not sure. Actually I was going by a couple of reviews of the x-1800. I don't know what they use for video (have been keeping my eyes open, but with my budget, more of a curriosity ) -- ati doesn't seem to list them as they used to on spec sheets or comparisons. So if they're using the 550 now, I guess yeah.

I know many of the fan sites have been talking about using the programable chips for re-encoding acceleration for years now, so maybe some folks are over-enthusiastic... But, there has been a bit of excitement over the new ati HD stuff, and how it's supposed to accelerate mp4 etc...

[edDV]

The new X1xxx cards have h.264 playback support and the Theater 550 has some hooks for encoding acceleration but the real H.264 encoding cards are still out there in the future.
http://www.ati.com/technology/h264.html

Meanwhile the AIW 9xxx Theater 200 based cards are getting affordable. Also, the Theater 550 based tuner cards (TV wonder Elite et. al.) are capable of full MPeg2 hardware encoding but currently software support is weak. The next MMC is rumored to include realtime MPeg2 encoding support for the 550 class tuners.

[mikiem]

"but the real H.264 encoding cards are still out there in the future"

Thanks for info!

"Theater 550 based tuner cards ... software support is weak."

Just out of curriosity really, early reviews said there was a huge improvement upgrading Cyberlink software. Hasn't that worked out, or are folks just cheap like me? :P

"The next MMC is rumored to include realtime MPeg2 encoding support for the 550 class tuners."

Cyberlink Licensed code?

[edDV]

"but the real H.264 encoding cards are still out there in the future"

Thanks for info!

"Theater 550 based tuner cards ... software support is weak."

Just out of curriosity really, early reviews said there was a huge improvement upgrading Cyberlink software. Hasn't that worked out, or are folks just cheap like me? :P

I bought a Saphire 550 tuner two weeks ago but haven't used the Cyberlink PowerCinema software yet. Most reviews claim it is very bad.

I'm using BeyondTV 4 software and that seems to work OK and supports the 550's onboard hardware MPeg2 encoding.

"The next MMC is rumored to include realtime MPeg2 encoding support for the 550 class tuners."

Cyberlink Licensed code?

The 550 tuner cards have MPeg2 encoding built into hardware (like the PVR-250*). There is no need to license anything from Cyberlink. I hope the next MMC supports the card without requiring a AIW in the same machine.


* the ATI 550 hardware is locked to 720x480/576 resolution at variable compression. The Hauppage PVR's can output in either 720x480/576 or 352x240/288.

[BrainStorm69]

I hope the next MMC supports the card without requiring a AIW in the same machine.

So if you have an AIW card in your machine (I have an AIW 7500) as well as the TV Wonder Elite, the current version of MMC will work with the TV Wonder Elite already?

* the ATI 550 hardware is locked to 720x480/576 resolution at variable compression.

So the TV Wonder Elite will not capture in half D1 if you want it to?

[edDV]

I hope the next MMC supports the card without requiring a AIW in the same machine.

So if you have an AIW card in your machine (I have an AIW 7500) as well as the TV Wonder Elite, the current version of MMC will work with the TV Wonder Elite already?

There was a rumor in here about a beta MMC version that controlled the Elite.

I have two AIW cards but I prefer to use a Radeon 9550 with HDTV adapter in this machine.

* the ATI 550 hardware is locked to 720x480/576 resolution at variable compression.

So the TV Wonder Elite will not capture in half D1 if you want it to?

So I read somewhere. It does have variable bitrate, just needs an interface.

The Elite 550 design can capture uncompressed as well.

[aiw9800proman]

EdDV,

Have you compared analogue capture quality on the 550 against others like the aiw 200's ?

Im taking a big look at this 550 chip because it has video 'cleaning' features that do not appear to be used on any other chip but im not convinced that these features are accessible or in fact do they even work ?

Also, I have heard rumours that the onboard audio only captures in mono Surely this is not true ?

Cheers

Mick

[edDV]

EdDV,

Have you compared analogue capture quality on the 550 against others like the aiw 200's ?

Im taking a big look at this 550 chip because it has video 'cleaning' features that do not appear to be used on any other chip but im not convinced that these features are accessible or in fact do they even work ?

Also, I have heard rumours that the onboard audio only captures in mono Surely this is not true ?

Cheers

Mick

So far the 550 tuner looks very good for image quality but driver and software issues are delaying my evaluation. I have it working with BeyondTV4 but I'm having audio problems with my AC'97 motherboard. Audio recording drops after about 40-50 seconds. I'm updating motherboard drivers first. If that doesn't work I may need a dedicated audio card or new motherboard.

The 550 looks to have great potential but may not be ready for "prime time" PVR duty just yet. CPU load during MPeg2 encoding is very low, much lower than the All-In-Wonder.

[greymalkin]

i'm using a theater 550 with gb-pvr with flawless operation. For capturing vhs, etc..I usually use virtualdub and cap at uncompressed avi or huffyuv.

I have no sync issues, etc. When capping with virtualdub i usually go into the card settings and disable all of the 3d/2d/luminance filters as they sometimes create a weird effect.

Before purchasing the 550 I owned the AIW 9000 and it was also a great card, I just wanted something with full hardware mpeg encoding. If you are wanting to use it for a pvr alot of them require full hardware mpeg encoders.

[mikiem]

"Im taking a big look at this 550 chip because it has video 'cleaning' features that do not appear to be used on any other chip but im not convinced that these features are accessible or in fact do they even work ?"

This may be a stupid comment/question (apologies), but I've come to wonder about a whole lot of filters, not just with aiw's but TVs too... The more I look into them, the more I find out they are designed to work on the analog composite (co-ax) signal. Using s-vid from cable or sat box, bypassing the tuner and co-ax signal, do they even matter? I mean if it's there, & doesn't seem to make things worse I'll usually leave whatever on thinking: "what could it hurt"... But, wonder if it's not all just some marketing thing?

[edDV]

"Im taking a big look at this 550 chip because it has video 'cleaning' features that do not appear to be used on any other chip but im not convinced that these features are accessible or in fact do they even work ?"

This may be a stupid comment/question (apologies), but I've come to wonder about a whole lot of filters, not just with aiw's but TVs too... The more I look into them, the more I find out they are designed to work on the analog composite (co-ax) signal. Using s-vid from cable or sat box, bypassing the tuner and co-ax signal, do they even matter? I mean if it's there, & doesn't seem to make things worse I'll usually leave whatever on thinking: "what could it hurt"... But, wonder if it's not all just some marketing thing?

The purpose of a digital comb filter is to separarte Y and C or in other words, convert composite into S-Video Y/C.

You would see the benefit using it for analog channel capture from the tuner or with external composite inputs. For instance, the picture quality from an analog cable channel is much better when tuned on the 550 or on my Philips HDTV than it is from the cable box connected S-Video. Digital channels look fine over the S-Video connection.

See this fine reference on comb filters
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/vidcomb.htm

[hab138]

Thanks for all the absosmurfly smurfy answers.
I guess i'll wait until i get a new pc before getting a new vid card.

[jagabo]

The Hauppage PVR's can output in either 720x480/576 or 352x240/288.

Just to be complete: the Hauppauge cards can also output 352x480/576 (half D1) and 480x480/576 (SVCD).