Ugly Subs

[Afterlife]

I have a DIVX movie with a srt file. When playing the movie in a player the subs look beautiful.

I then import this sub file into DVDLab Pro, and it spits out this nasty looking sp1 file, and when burning to DVD the subs generally are displeasing to look at, sometimes I get shimmering etc.

So how is it then that some dvds are really nice looking subs, and others have crappy looking ones.

I dont know much about sub files so any information, and tips on how to get subs looking better, would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[kschang]

See if DVDSubEdit can help you there...

[Afterlife]

SubEdit can only help position my subs, thanks tho

[Baldrick]

dvdlab pro is rendering the text subtitles to images, maybe it is just crappy. check the dvdlab forums.

maybe you could convert to images subtitles with for example mastrosbt and import in dvd-lab pro...but I don't if it supports any image formats.

[Aeolis]

Hi folks,

Afterlife what you have is a common trouble. I personally had this one. Well, I’ve watched one commercial movie DVD and I liked very much the subtitle of that movie because they were somewhat compressed in horizontal size it means less screen space required to show huge texts and still very visible and detailed to read. So I’ve searched a lot of fonts in internet (www.myfonts.com and others sites. TIP: Enter “legible and compressed” or “legible and condensed” in that site, without commas of course and you will find a lot of fonts that are small enough to save screen space but still very readable. Look in Google too).
Well, after my research I found out two fonts to be the best I could find (In my opinion of course) and they are: Alternate Gothic and Compacta, both from Bitstream Inc.
They are paid fonts, but you could try finding a demo version or a trial version for free or something like this.
Well, about DVDLab PRO you should use the latest release 1.60 (It has some subtitles engine updates. It could help you) and for THAT fonts I’ve told you the best looking setting I’ve found, of course in my opinion, were: yellow or white (you choose), outline+shadow and size 24.

See you later,

Aeolis

[kschang]

SubEdit can only help position my subs, thanks tho

Try MaestroSBT then?

[Afterlife]

DVD-Lab Pro current version is 1.53. I see no 1.6 on their website, is this is a beta release?

Any information on this would be appreciated.

[Afterlife]

SubEdit can only help position my subs, thanks tho

Try MaestroSBT then?

My subs are srt, not ssa, and I dont use maestro so not sure how this will help.

Thanks

[mikiem]

FWIW, some fonts do work better then others -- personally I use Arial narrow (plain ol' unicode free font).

There is also the possibility of useing 4 subs I think per track with DVD -- one for P&S, L/B, Wide, Normal I think they are. You can set which for which, specify DVD Lab pro create which ones etc. if I remember correctly. Text doesn't size or strectch well, so pre-stretching before creating (what DVD LAb Pro will do creating subs for wide I think) can help. At any rate, this is in the DVD Lab docs, along with explanations for the many creation format options you can choose from in the subs dialog -- some do look better then others.

In general, you also want to watch your colors. TVs don't do text, with the possible exception of CC. The main colors have to be de-saturated, avoid red, use bold type, use a fair amount of shadowing & feathering.

[Aeolis]

Hi folks,

Afterlife do as follow: Go to www.mediachance.com > DVD-lab PRO; Start here > PRO Resources; History > dvdlabpro16.zip.

Then you should download the above file and install the zip inner files. I hope it helps. And it’s an update not a beta version.

See you later,

Aeolis

[kschang]

SubEdit can only help position my subs, thanks tho

Try MaestroSBT then?

My subs are srt, not ssa, and I dont use maestro so not sure how this will help.

There are lots of converters among the various formats. Subtitle Workshop should do it.

[Afterlife]

Ah, so with MaestroSBT I can use images instead, instead of plain text.

Ok now, just a quick Q.

Is it better to use Images or the text input from DVD-Lab Pro.

If images, what are some good settings for MaestroSBT?

Im looking to get real nice looking subs, the kind you would find in a retail professional dvd.

Im currently using AG Foreigner, white text, with a 1px black border, size 20 font. But isnt looking too great.

If anyone has better suggestions I would appreciate it.

thanks!

[Afterlife]

Found this website, really informative, except all the fonts they say to use cost a ton lol.

http://screenfont.ca/fonts/today/interim/

[Afterlife]

Nope, from what I can tell after compiling, it does not support image formats, as the subs all said the filename instead of the subs.

Ah well.

[kschang]

Maybe go back to DVDSubEdit, now that you have the subtitles generated through MaestroSBT?

I've played with it and it seems to generate some very professional looking Subs if you use the right fonts.

I'd try Verdana, it was designed as a font that is visible even in low font sizes, so when it's rendered big it's nicely visible.

[Afterlife]

MaestroSBT created image sub files which cant be used with DVDLab pro at all, so the program no longer helps.

DVDSUbEdit only works post compile, and if i cant compile the subs using DVD-Lab Pro then I there is no use using SubEdit.

Maybe Ill have to change authoring programs, something with better sub capabilities.

If anyone knows of something that may help, please let me know.

[rajalev]

I use DVDlab pro, and I have great results (better than many professional hollywood DVD's) with the following configuration:

Font: Tahoma
size: 22
color: white
rendering: smooth max (this is the most important).


This is the program that gives the best subtitles quality !

[Afterlife]

I dont think im explaining myself properly enough, or maybe im being way too anal.

This is what the SRT looks like:
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=withsrtcopy0bp.jpg

This is outline + shadow Tahoma 22 bold in DVD-Lab Pro
http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=outlineshadow4km.jpg

This is smoothmax, as the above poster said to do.
http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smoothmax5zs.jpg

Now to me there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the quality.

I have seen retail dvds with the first image quality in subs, tho DVD-Lab pro seems to have crap looking subs, unless u buy a 300$ font, and even then I doubt it would look as good as this.

So I did some more digging and found out that DVD-Lab Pro does support BMP subs, but as far as can tell I have to add them in one by one. Something im willing to do if bmp subs can get me what I want.

So if anyone knows how to get quality subs, please let me know.

Thanks!

[kschang]

Okay, 2 suggestions, not sure how that would go so bear with me, as I haven't tried the solution myself.

From what I've seen of MaestroSBT, it will read your .SRT or .SSA files and render them into BMP Subs as needed. Of course, I remember you don't want to add them one at a time. However... MasteroSBT will also spit out a D2V file, from what I've seen, which somehow is used in something (I'm not too sure what, someone can tell me) that will help other program load up these BMP subs.

Maybe research in that direction?

[manono]

You want nice looking subs? Follow kschang's suggestion to use MaestroSBT (it takes subs in SSA format). It'll make a SON file and a bunch of bitmaps. Then use Son2VobSub. Then use SubToSup, which will give you back the subs in SUP format, ready for authoring in a number of apps.

I have tried the solution (but not for DVDLab Pro), and use it all the time.

[Afterlife]

These formats are directly supported:

* .sub;*.srt;*.ssa;*.son;*.sst

Most subtitle editors (such as "Subtitle Workshop") will export subtitles in one of these formats.

http://dvdlab.wikicities.com/wiki/Subtitles

so sup wont work.. ill play around
[/quote]

[kschang]

I believe he DID state that MaestroSBT will take your SSA and give you SON files...

[manono]

Oh, so DVDLab Pro doesn't take SUP subtitles? And you have to use DVDLab Pro for some reason? Then stop after the Maestro SBT step and feed it the SON file. Don't blame me if your timings get screwed up. Me, I make SUP files for use in Muxman or IFOEdit for authoring.

[rajalev]

I dont think im explaining myself properly enough, or maybe im being way too anal.

This is what the SRT looks like:
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=withsrtcopy0bp.jpg

This is outline + shadow Tahoma 22 bold in DVD-Lab Pro
http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=outlineshadow4km.jpg

This is smoothmax, as the above poster said to do.
http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smoothmax5zs.jpg

Now to me there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the quality.


Thanks!

I must insist:
Try tahoma, size 22 or even 24 (NO BOLD), smooth max in DVD LAB PRO.
After rendering the subtitles, authoring and burning your DVD, I assure you that when viewing it in a proper CRT interlaced TV screen you WILL get the best quality - give it a try!
Try creating on channel with smooth max and another with whatever you want.
Don't use your PC screen to do the preview. Test it on a real TV.

But... This is just my opinion...

[Afterlife]

Raja, that last link for smoothmax is Tahoma 22 font bold , and it still looks jaggedy on a tv on letters like W and E.

im stick with AG Foreigner for now, but hopefully ill find a good font one day.

[Init]

I wrote to oscar awhile ago, the developer of dvdlab, that he ain't telling nowhere in the damn help file how to import a series of bitmaps for subs, just one by one method is described - he doesn't seem to care about subtitling any much, seems to be the unbeloved child.
You need to export scenarist .sst or dvdmaestro .son format from maestrosbt, specify bitmap 4bit or 8bit or even bitmap straight. import the the scipt file in dvdlab and it'll load the corresponding pix, too.
to get the color mapping (theoretically) right, in maestrosbt->rendering->color mapping, assign blue to antialias, red to outline, black to main color and white to background.
don't be surprised if the subs still look shitty. first, you never know what dvdlab really does with the color mapping, and seconds, as been stated before, what you see on a pc screen often doesn't represent what you will find with a tv set.
greetinx,

init

[ericf]

Yes. You have to use the bmp format for the suns to work in DVD-lab Pro.
I get a number of problems with timing changes in MaestroSBT though. Any idea why?

It sometimes creates files that show for 0.05 seconds or less. Sometimes a 1 second sub becomes a 0.2 second sub.

Thanks.
ericf

[sunmanking]

hi folks,

this thread looks interesting! ericf, afaik,:

sst > DLP gets wrong timings
son > DLP gets timings right

i haven't tried it, though.

regards!

[jujuandhuhu]

You want nice looking subs? Follow kschang's suggestion to use MaestroSBT (it takes subs in SSA format). It'll make a SON file and a bunch of bitmaps. Then use Son2VobSub. Then use SubToSup, which will give you back the subs in SUP format, ready for authoring in a number of apps.

I have tried the solution (but not for DVDLab Pro), and use it all the time.

Hi, I'm trying to get subtitles in .sup format using the suggested method, but I can't find a place to download Son2VobSub. The only result I'm getting is Txt2VobSub which cannot open .son files. If you know a way to convert .son to vobsub or have an advice please help.

Thanks

[manono]

Hi-

Actually, I do it differently these days. I still use and swear by MaestroSBT, but Muxman (my usual authoring program) supports SST subtitles in addition to SUP files, and you can get SSTs directly out of MaestroSBT.

However, if you want Son2VobSub:

https://forum.videohelp.com/images/guides/p1661328/son2vsub.exe

You should have searched this site.