Which compressed file formats can cut without re-encoding?

[sync]

I know this can be done with mpeg with a number of tools. What other compressed file formats can be cut without re-encoding and which tool would you use for each?

[jimmalenko]

MPEG would still have to re-encode the rest of the frames in the GOP, unless you cut complete GOPs. DV-AVI is my format of choice, since every frame is an I-frame wich makes cutting wayyyy easier.

[sync]

I should modify my original question. What other compressed file formats can be cut with minimal re-encoding and which tool would you use for each?

I'm not asking because I'm choosing a file format to use. I have a bunch of files in different formats that need cutting. I prefer to do it without re-encoding if possible.

Right now, I have divx, wmv and quicktime files. But I'm also interested in knowing about other file formats for the future.

[guns1inger]

Pretty much any of them can be cut without re-encoding so long as you cut on the GOP border. With a smart editor, cutting in a GOP will require the re-encoding of that GOP. How much re-encoding depends of the size of the GOP. Some formats (Xvid/Divx, for example) allow for very long GOPs.

You say you need to cut files of many formats, but you don't explain what you need to output to be. If you need to combine these formats you may have no choice by to re-encode at the end of the day. Perhaps a little more clarity in your purpose might get you more accurate answers.

[sync]

The idea is to feed to cut files into DivxToDVD. I need to get the cut version of the files onto DVD and take as little of my time, and as little computer time, as possible.

[redwudz]

I'll assume we're talking cheap here, if you're using DivxToDVD and you asked about editing 'tools'.

Virtualdub or VirtualDub Mod for AVI types.

Cuttermaran for MPEG types.

MPEG-VCR for MPEG types, less cheap.

[Abond]

AviDemux2 can cut lot of file types.

[sync]

I discovered that it is pretty much impossible to cut video files and get good transitions in both the video and audio. You need to be able to fade the volume in and out.

[mikiem]

"I discovered that it is pretty much impossible to cut video files and get good transitions in both the video and audio. You need to be able to fade the volume in and out. "

Actually the best way is with a crossfade, the way it's assembled in the editing room, but then you're usually talking converting audio to wav & video to avi (or using DGIndex), re-encoding the result.

Otherwise I've gotten decent results with project x, carefully cutting at the fades for commercial breaks, but it usually take a minimum of 2 tries as you probably have one I frame to work with at each cut, and it's easy to miss it.

And in a pinch I've gotten lucky once or twice cutting before any transitions... We notice change more then anything else, and if video/audio levels stay constant, you might be surprised. Editing, the plain cut (no fade at all) is still the most used.

[sync]

Editing, the plain cut (no fade at all) is still the most used.

That's true in tv and movies because they are shot as scenes.

I'm working with home movies shot by amateurs. As you said, it's the changes in volume that are most noticeable. I'm finding that, with the footage I'm working with, good places for video transitions don't match with good places for audio transitions. I agree that cross-fades would be best.

[mwkurt]

Why don't you use crossfades and fade the volume down to zero at the end of one scene and then on the next scene, start the volume at zero and gradually raise the volume to the normal level as the scene completes the crossfade?
Mark

[sync]

Why don't you use crossfades and fade the volume down to zero at the end of one scene and then on the next scene, start the volume at zero and gradually raise the volume to the normal level as the scene completes the crossfade?
Mark

Except for MPEG Video Wizard, I'm not clear about which software will let me fade the volume and will only re-encode the affected parts. I have Video Wizard, but I also need software to handle divx and wmv.

[mwkurt]

I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were using some sort of an NLE to accomplish your tasks. This can be done very easily in an NLE like Vegas Video.
Mark

[sync]

It would take at least twice as long to re-encode and author if I used Vegas. And if use Vegas to edit Divx, all I get is the audio. I have version 4.

[BiggerJim]

Some programms can do frame accurate cuts without reencoding the complete movie. They will reencode only the portion between the cut and the next keyframe. This is possible with:

Asfbin V 1.5 or later (for *.wmv) --> use -rkf option
VirtualDub V 1.7 or later --> use "Smart Rendering" (you have to have the appropriate codec to reencode the missing part)
Avidemux, I think starting with Version 2.3 or so --> use "Smart Copy"

If you are looking for a GUI for asfbin (it's only commandline), try cut assistant (can be used with virtualdub and avidemux, too)

NOTE: if you try -rkf and asfbin gives you this error: "Decompression error: VCM decoding driver is not available", the you must install the VCM driver from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/de/9series/codecs/vcm.aspx

[edDV]

What am I missing here? DVD is MPeg2.

You must re-encode MPeg4 based formats. Your challenge is to minimize recode to one time. Both MPeg2 and Mpeg4 have heavy losses when re-encoded.

They were designed as distribution formats.