VCR to computer via camcorder

[sirugo]

But why does it say everywhere that analog input can be enabled?
At least I should be able to see the VCR-signal in my camcorder's viewfinder or being able to record it.
Or what else can an enabled input signal mean?

[Richard_G]

Richard: did your camcorder-menu change after DV-IN was enabled?
Mine did not if I remember things correctly.
Also: the movie youäre passing through also appears in the camcorder's viewfinder, not only in the computer?
And it appears also if you only have the VCR connected to the camcorder and computer disconnected?

Yes, the menu changed so that AV->DV OUT ON/OFF became an option which wasn't there before. I also have the NTSC PB option, but that is for playing back tapes recorded on an NTSC camcorder and was there originally.

The passthrough signal appears in the viewfinder and (provided the AV->DV OUT is set to ON), is output to the computer via the Firewire port. With the Widget, I also have a button which acts as a record button so I can record the analogue input to Digi8 tape.

The 7000E and 8000E are virtually identical and have a very similar spec (If I remember right the 7000E has less manual options). Mine works so I don't see why yours doesn't. There is obviously something that hasn't been set correctly.

[The_Doman]

Just to try something I read on some forum:
http://www.dvzone.de/forum/video/topic/tr7000e-analog-ohne-band-capturen-_605.html
With analog in try to go in REC mode (with a non important tape!).
Maybe it works only when the camcorder is recording?

Possible the standard remote REC function does not work when in VTR mode, but you can use one of the DVin/LAnc tools to start the recording.

[sirugo]

Should I be using the REMOTE rec-function?
I've never used the remote control at all!

Maybe I've edited a value by mistake way back when I enabled DV-IN. I'll check with the original factory dump that I found.

And, yes. I read that thread (German) too. That seems to be a proof of that my model should handle this and that's why I'm not giving up...

[Richard_G]

I think you'll find that the REC button on the remote won't do anything in Player mode. The non-E version of these camcorders has a REC button on the top next to the other player control buttons. My Widget plugs into the LANC socket and has a button on it which becomes the REC button when in Player mode. This will then allow recording from the AV input. At all other times the Widget does not need to be plugged in, it has already enabled AV and DV in. DV recording from the Firewire port is controlled by the control software when copying from the computer.

I suspect you have either edited a value that didn't need editing or not edited one that did. Unfortunately, I have no way of reading the codes on mine to see what yours needs to be set at, the Widget just did it for me. Your camcorder requires exactly the same one as mine so the codes must be identical. http://www.datavision.co.uk/widgetlist.asp?naked=no

[sirugo]

OK, but my basic question is:

If I have disabled the DV-IN (setting 23 to 22 on D:27) through the computer, can I disconnect it from the computer, move to another room, plug the VCR into the camcorder (without any other equipment, no computer) and expect to see the VCR signal coming in on the camcorder?

Or do I have to control the camcorder having the LANC plugged in all the time, sitting next to the computer?

[sirugo]

Now it WORKS!

BUT! BUT BUT!
We're not done yet.

The problem was that I never understood that I had to use the L-remote software's record button to start receiving signals. I found a german page describing this and it helped me out. Maybe you all suggested that here somewhere and I hope you forgive me for not noticing.

One of my goals is also to digitalize some of the VHS-tapes that I have bought through the years. I'm NOT copying them to others or filesharing them. I ONLY want to store them more safely and compact than now.

But when I try to record a message saying "COPY INHIBIT " appears after a few seconds in the viewfinder. I understand it as some copy protection having its source on the VHS.

Actually what I have tested is the connection between the camcorder and the VCR. I'm running Lremote from an old PC and it's not the same machine that I will be recording to (it's a Mac G5 in an other room). So the question is now if that analog signal can be flowing through the camcorder into the firewire connection using that Lremote (or any other software). How should I use Lremote for that?

AND: Do I really need Lremote to activate the signal? Can it be done without Lremote?

[The_Doman]

The problem was that I never understood that I had to use the L-remote software's record button to start receiving signals. I found a german page describing this and it helped me out. Maybe you all suggested that here somewhere and I hope you forgive me for not noticing.

Not your fault, it seems that older model only activates the analog input when you start recording.
With newer models the analog inputs are active without the need to activate the record function.
(Possible there are l-remote software settings for it)

One of my goals is also to digitalize some of the VHS-tapes that I have bought through the years.But when I try to record a message saying "COPY INHIBIT " appears after a few seconds in the viewfinder. I understand it as some copy protection having its source on the VHS.

This is correct, the camcorder detects the macrovision signal and won't allow you to record it.
The only way to defeat it is to passthrough the firewire signal and record it directly on your pc.
We have to find out if that is possibe with your camcorder model

Actually what I have tested is the connection between the camcorder and the VCR. I'm running Lremote from an old PC and it's not the same machine that I will be recording to (it's a Mac G5 in an other room). So the question is now if that analog signal can be flowing through the camcorder into the firewire connection using that Lremote (or any other software). How should I use Lremote for that?

AND: Do I really need Lremote to activate the signal? Can it be done without Lremote?

Did you try it also with the firewire cable connected to the PC (Possible withthe DV-in function disabled?) to see if it passes the analog signal through the firewire?

To activate the RECORD function in VTR mode the camorder needs a special RECORD command.
On camcorders (European) without DV-in this is not available on the standard remote control.
That's what the Lremote record function is used for.

Another option is to get the special record remote command from a uniniversal remote control. At least that worked for my camcorder to enable recording in VTR mode.

And if the passthrough can be done without the Lremote/record function we have to find out, no idea if there are other codes for that.

Also you can try maybe to experiment without tape in the camcorder?
Does the analog input then still work when you (try to) activate the record function?

[sirugo]

No I haven't tried the firewire connection yet and I will only do it if there seems any hope at all to be able to start the passthrough without having two different computers next to each other (that is: without Lremote). It's impossible for me to have both the Mac, the PC, the VCR and the camcorder next to eachother for a long time.

One thing I noticed was that when I pushed play on the Lremote the signal appeared for one second and then I got bluescreen, but no INHIBIT-thingie. The INHIBIT-thingie appears when I press Lremote-REC with a tape inside. Without a tape the yellow cassette-symbol flashes and things beep bluescreen.

There was a pic of a modified remote control on lea's page: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM

Has this anything to do with my situation? Can I modify my remote control?

But of course, I must check if the Lremote keeps sending the signal to the firewire in any way. Otherwise it won't do any good. I'll put those comps together now...phew.

[The_Doman]

Has this anything to do with my situation? Can I modify my remote control?

But of course, I must check if the Lremote keeps sending the signal to the firewire in any way. Otherwise it won't do any good. I'll put those comps together now...phew.

I tried to modify my remote , but that did not work.
Luckily my friend had a universal One4-all remote control with the right command so i used that.

What I read on the german forum the firewire pasthrough worked when the Record function was used with DV-in decactivated.
Possible you could activate that record mode on your MAC pc and then unplug/plug the camera in your other PC.
Warning: connecting firewire while PC is on is not really recommended it seems.
(But i have done it serveral times in the past.. )

[sirugo]

The situation in this mayehm of cables is about the same as in my last posting. The COPY INHIBIT prevents the signal from lasting longer than a few seconds (when I Lremote-REC). On the other hand the signal now is coming into the camcorder which is good. Though there is no signal if I press Lremote-PLAY or any other button. I must use REC which activates the INHIBIT-thingie.

Now, I have Final Cut pro at the other end of the mayhem.
There are a gazillion of settings to do.

The normal settings for capturing through firewire (from the camcorder cassettes) is DV PAL in all cases. Now the question is if I need to change these settings to receive this analog signal or if it does not pass through at all. Should it work with the same settings or is it probable that a change should be made?

I don't have a firewire card for my PC so I can't try that one.

[The_Doman]

The situation in this mayehm of cables is about the same as in my last posting. The COPY INHIBIT prevents the signal from lasting longer than a few seconds (when I Lremote-REC). On the other hand the signal now is coming into the camcorder which is good. Though there is no signal if I press Lremote-PLAY or any other button. I must use REC which activates the INHIBIT-thingie.

Ofcourse easiest is try first with a MACROVISION free video signal to see if everything works well.
If you only want to copy a (few?) tapes with macrovision on it it is probably not worth all this trouble...

[sirugo]

The uncoded tapes work fine so I can transfer these (about 50) without problem.
But I have 30-40 bought tapes and i refuse to buy them again just because someone decided to change the world from an analog to a digital one.

But of course there are other ways. I can buy a AV/DV converter to do it all, or an analog TV-card. But again - why should I have to buy anything at all? It really makes no sense if you don't suspect that all people are copy-criminals.

I guess the CGMS-code will be hard to override but am I right when I say that the analog signals can be recorded anyway, if only the camcorder would transfer the signals into the computer? So does my camcorder transfer the signals on through the firewire?

[The_Doman]

Just some more info about the passthrough function.
If you look on this page:
http://www.smartdv.co.uk/product.php/30/0/

It seems again the standalone (without recording) passthrough option can''t be enabled on your model.
You really need the RECORD command to activate the A/V inputs/passthrough function..

[sirugo]

OK, that's about it I guess...
I can fix those "legal" copies but backing up the othr ones obviously will need something else:

* buying a bargain camcorder (maybe a crashed one where the cassette mechanism is not working but everything else is) that can use passthrough

* buying an external device like Canopus

* buying an analog TV-card to connect the VCR, then use myVCR-application (or similar) to record it

Any of the above where I might run into the same problem as I now have?

[The_Doman]

Just a wild idea what you can try.
First feed a macrovisionfree signal to the camcorder and then start the REC function.
While REC is activated switch (change tape) to the macrovision protected signal.
There could be a change it will continue recording...
( I read this trick being used with some DVD recorders)

I don't know if it't worth getting a external canopus device, it's not cheap.
Getting a used/broken camcorder with working passthrough could be indeed a more valid option.
But you need to be lucky to find one ofcourse..
A (cheap) TV-card can work, it depends on available macrovision free drivers.
But mostly quality can't compare with the DV/passthrough option.

[sirugo]

I tried the trick but after a few seconds the damn INHIBIT-thingie pops up...

[The_Doman]

I tried the trick but after a few seconds the damn INHIBIT-thingie pops up...

Well, that's it then..out of options i think..
Except ofcourse removing the macrovision with an external device...

[Richard_G]

Looks to me like you've found the downside of using the software enabling method. The Widget I bought plugs into the Lanc socket and enables DV IN, AV IN and passthrough. Once the Widget has reprogrammed the camcorder there is no need to plug it in again unless you want to record on the camcorder from an analogue source (the Widget provides the REC button). Irrespective of whether I have a tape in the camcorder, I can input an analogue signal which is encoded as DV and output on the Firewire to the computer. The computer sees it exactly the same as transferring DV from a tape, EXCEPT that device control must be turned off on the transfer software.

I still don't quite follow this turn DV IN off to enable AV in. Your camcorder, like mine, had neither as standard, the Widget enabled both and made passthrough an option. I suppose what you really need is a means of reading a Widget enable camcorder.

However, the COPY INHIBIT mesage pops up and the A->D conversion stops if macrovision is detected on the incoming analogue signal. A video processor after the VCR and before the camcorder would sort this out though.

[The_Doman]

I still don't quite follow this turn DV IN off to enable AV in. Your camcorder, like mine, had neither as standard, the Widget enabled both and made passthrough an option. I suppose what you really need is a means of reading a Widget enable camcorder.

The problem is you have another model camcorder!!
The pasthrough option from the menu (without the need for the REC command) is not available on the TR7000e model!!

You can see that here:
http://www.smartdv.co.uk/product.php/30/0/

[Richard_G]

That seems to be another downside to the software enabler. Perhaps I used the wrong terminology, passthrough isn't an option as in something that appears on a menu, the re-programming done by the Widget made passthrough a feature. It's there, it works, all the time. The only extra menu feature I got was the AV->DV OUT ON/OFF option. If you buy the Widget the 7000e will do the same as my 8000e.
http://www.datavision.co.uk/widgetlist.asp?naked=no

[sirugo]

To be sure about that I've mailed them and if anyone can answer that they should be able to.

Meanwhile looking at other models Canon MVXXXi cameras (where XXX could be 400, 600 etc) seems to do the job and they are quite cheap as broken. But what must be working? Normally the cassette transport is not working but as far as I understand it must not be. Or?