VCR to computer via camcorder

[sirugo]

I've tried to read everything on this site to sort things out, trying to capture analog VHS-signals to my computer.

I have:

* VHS with a scart output (bought 1989). It works to the TV.
* Sony DCR-TR7000E camcorder. It works to the TV and to my computer.
* Mac G5 with Firewire and software like Final Cut and iMovie to capture from the camcorder.
* Hauppauge DVB-T card fpr capturing terrestrial digital TV-signals.
* I also have a Pioneer DVR-520H DVD-recorder (with HD).

I now want to capture signals from my old VHS-tapes into my computer.
Preferrably I want to capture using iMovie/Final Cut but if it's not possible I can live with capturing throught the Hauppauge card.

The camcorder had DV-IN enabled until recently when I read somewhere that passthrough is not enabled when DV-IN is. I used an application called anin.exe to temporarily disable DV-IN and I think it worked because there's no DV-IN text in the lower right corner of the camcorder-screen when I plug the cable to the computer.

I have tried to connect these machines in the following way:

A scart from the VHS to the camcorder using yellow/red/white phono-plugs. Or do I have to use S-video? Will a cable: scart (VCR) -> S-video (camcorder) work better or at all?
I'm using a standard firewire connection to my computer from the camcorder, which has always worked fine.

I start the VHS but there is no signal neither in my camcorder or on my computer (iMovie/Final Cut). The applications say that the camcorder is connected.

Is passthrough available on my camcorder? There's nothing mentioned about passthrough or AV-in in the tech.specs and nothing is explained in the manual showing signals going to the camcorder, only from.

I also tried the Hauppauge-card with an application (only one available for Mac) called iTele but there is no way to capture the VHS-signals as I can see, only TV-channels. This card has antenna-In and antenna-Out only. Should the camcorder be in play- or in record-mode? Is there anything in the camcorders menus that I must change? I found nothing that has to do with passthrough etc.

One thought was also to use the 520H as a passthrough. Haven't trioed it yet because I have to disconnect so many cables hidden behind furniture. Will it work and how do I achieve it? The VHS-tapes are sometimes Macrovision-encrypted and I know there is a hack for the 520H but the file is currently unavailable (anyone knows where to find?).

I'm not trying to copy files to others or sell them. I only want to record taped I once bought to a media that's made for the future, rather than VHS.

What am I doing wrong? Suggestions.

[tweedledee]

I don't know if your camera will do pass through, but what I do is .....VCR to Camcorder using AV cables, Then from Camcorder to firewire card using Windv. The result is an AVI file roughly 13gig per hour in size. On my camera I have to remove the tape before starting.

[sirugo]

But there is no signal from the VHS to the camcorder!

How do you connect them? S-video?

The problem is not the computer software. The connection from camcorder to computer works great, but the connection between VHS and camcorder does not work.

[teeg]

I just did a quick search for this camcorder model number and it seems that your camcorder doesn't have AV-in, but can be enabled to have AV-in. (Perhaps with a modification to the firmware or some such.) http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/helmet-cam_faq.htm <-- mentions your model number under 'Can my camcorder be enabled to have camcorder IN?'.

[tweedledee]

I just connect from video out on VCR to camera.
This is what the cable looks like

[sirugo]

I had a look at my scart connector (into the VCR) and I realize that it has only five pins. I looked it up on the net and found that these pins are for OUT-signals. Shouldn't that be enough or will I need OUT/IN-pins to make the signals go OUT from the VCR to the camcorder?

[tweedledee]

You will need to have something that takes a signal out from the VCR.
Have you looked at the picture I posted? Is there anything on your VCR that you could fit those AV cables into? It would help us all if you described ALL the in and out plugs on your VCR, because at the moment I'm just guessing.

[sirugo]

No, the only connetion I can use is via the scart (the same output that connects to the TV when I watch VHS on the TV).

I have RCA connectors at the other end but I cannot use the cable you have. I must use a scart cable.

[tweedledee]

The scart will do to get the signal out. Then you must do as I did. Go to your local Tandy or similar electronic store and buy adapters to plug in to the camera.

[teeg]

Scart to RCA would be simplest. But, you still won't be able to convert VHS to digital with the current camera setup.

[sirugo]

What do you mean by "current camera setup"?
What am I doing wrong?

[sirugo]

I have now read about this AV-IN issue and as I understand it, AV-IN will be enabled when I enable DV-IN. I enabled DV-IN two years ago with a free software and it worked well.
Then obviously I have AV-IN enabled. So the problem might be the scart itself. Are five pins enough or will I need a scart with all pins?

See: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM

[teeg]

Oh, by current camera setup I was referring to the AV-in issue. But if you have it enabled then it must be cable related.

http://ns.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/anin/analog.html <-- as it says just make sure you have Scart Out.

[sirugo]

I suppose the camcorder should show the same picture as on my VCR although it might not be recordable (due to copyright encoding) but I hope that the signal then passes through to my computer.
Tomorrow I will buy a scart with more than five pins and try it out.
I'll let you know.

[The_Doman]

I have now read about this AV-IN issue and as I understand it, AV-IN will be enabled when I enable DV-IN. I enabled DV-IN two years ago with a free software and it worked well.
Then obviously I have AV-IN enabled. So the problem might be the scart itself. Are five pins enough or will I need a scart with all pins?

This is how I use the analog-in of my Sony D8-TRV120 (European PAL).
It came with the DV-in disabled but analog-in was working without modification, even directly through the firewire in the PC.

When DV-in is enabled correctly on my TRV120 there is a extra menu option to switch between DV-in and Analog-in.
Those functions can't work at the same time.
If you have no menu option you can possible try to unplug the firewire cable to see if the analog-in works correctly.
To use the analog firewire passtrough option the DV-in should be disabled or you should find a way to enable the special menu to switch bewteen DV/Analog in.

And about your scart adapter/plug.
You can't use the one included with your camcorder, you can only send video to your VCR/TV with it..
Better use a switchable adapter like this:

[sirugo]

OK, that's exactly the type of adapter I was thinking to buy today.

But as you say: I don't have a menu option to switch between DVIN/AVIN. When the fw-cable is plugged in the camcorder it says DVIN in the lower right corner. When it's not it disappears.

But at the same time it says that after activating the DVIN also AVIN will be activated. See: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM

"After dangerous job is done your D8 camcorder won't support only DV IN on FireWire (IEEE-1394), but ANALOG IN (on normal analog output conn.) too."

As you say I've read elsewehere that DVIN and AVIN cannot be activated at the same time because DVIN will have priority over AVIN.

I will try the other cable and let you know.
Thanks.

[sirugo]

OK, I have the adapter but still no difference.

As I understand it now I probably have not enabled analog input.
I thought it was enabled by default but it probably is not.
I have enabled DV-IN and I can disabled it temporarily.

The problem now seems to be how to enable analog input.
I know it's possible for my camcorder because I have seen it written in many articles on the net. There was even a camcorder for sale that had it enabled.

I have the Lremote software with which I can change hex number but >I don't know which to change!

Anyone knows where to find a table of the hex numbers to change?

[The_Doman]

OK, I have the adapter but still no difference.
The problem now seems to be how to enable analog input.
I know it's possible for my camcorder because I have seen it written in many articles on the net. There was even a camcorder for sale that had it enabled.

I have the Lremote software with which I can change hex number but >I don't know which to change!

Anyone knows where to find a table of the hex numbers to change?

The newer models use different codes it seems.
But i found these codes for the DCR-TR7000E
Again, best to make the changes temporarily to experiment.
Dont; use the STORE! function.

: DCR-TR7000E, DCR-TR7100E, DCR-TRV110E, DCR-TRV210E, DCR-TRV310E, DCR-TRV410E, DCR-TRV510E
: PAGE ADRESS Data (old) Data (new) Modifikation:
: 0 01 00 01 Enable write to memory
: D 14 A1 A3 Enable RECORD (VTR MODE)
: D 15 18 1B Enable analog
: D 27 22 23 Enable DVin
: 0 01 01 00 Disable write to memory

[sirugo]

GREAT! I will try it now (without storing).
But WHERE did you find it?

[sirugo]

OK, I tried now but Lremote said that all the values were already set as the table shows (A3, 1B, 23 respectively).

So: I now have a VCR sending signals through a scart to RCA into my camcorder. But nothing shows in the viewer and nothing shows on the computer screen. If I play a camcorder-film I can see it on the computer screen immediately so the connection between camcorder and computer must be correct.
I have disabled the DVIN but still no analog in.

What's missing?

Can I use RCA into the camvorder or do I have to use S-video?

[The_Doman]

If I play a camcorder-film I can see it on the computer screen immediately so the connection between camcorder and computer must be correct.
I have disabled the DVIN but still no analog in.

What's missing?

Can I use RCA into the camvorder or do I have to use S-video?

Did you try it without the firewire cable connected to the camera??
I know older models can't passthrough the analog signal directly to the pc.

Composite and S-Video should both work for analog input. (but only one plugged in at same time)

[sirugo]

Yes, I tried without the firewire (many times). Still nothing. Not a sign of life at all. Only blue screen in the viewfinder.

[The_Doman]

You looked at those pages special for the trv7000e?
Temporary disabling DV-in on camcorders Sony D8 for capturing ANALOG video:
http://ns.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/anin/analog.html
http://www.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/anin/code.html

[sirugo]

Yes

After disabling DVIN I both looked in the hex tables and looked for the DVIN-text in the lower right corner of the viewfinder. The hex value is correct and the DVIN-text has disappeared (when fireweire is plugged in). It comes back when I enable DVIN and have the firewire plugged in.

[sirugo]

Now I have found a strange thing about the disbling of the DVIN.

The D:27 should be 23 to have DV-IN enabled and 22 if it's disabled.

I use Lremote and start by unlocking the write-lock. The I move on to D:27 and change it to 22. I don't push STORE because I was told not to do it before verifying that it works.
Then I lock for writing and I realize that 22 goes back to 23 automatically. If I keep the lock unlocked it stays with 22.
Why?

[sirugo]

Please, note: I have TR7000E, not TRV7000E

[The_Doman]

Now I have found a strange thing about the disbling of the DVIN.

The D:27 should be 23 to have DV-IN enabled and 22 if it's disabled.

I use Lremote and start by unlocking the write-lock. The I move on to D:27 and change it to 22. I don't push STORE because I was told not to do it before verifying that it works.
Then I lock for writing and I realize that 22 goes back to 23 automatically. If I keep the lock unlocked it stays with 22.
Why?

Well i have the same happening with my D8 camcorder.
When you move back to a new page it resets the value again (I also don't use store)
So you have to program the registers in the right order so you don;t need to go back.

No futher ideas really.
Also the analog-in program found on this page should do it automatically:
http://ns.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/anin/analog.html

[Richard_G]

I don't know if this is relevant but I have a TR8000E which has DV-IN enabled using a Digi-8 Widget from Datavision. As soon as DV-IN was enabled this also enabled AV-IN when the camcorder is in Player mode. I use it as a passthrough for just the purpose you are trying to do and use analogue composite video from a VCR to the camcorder using the yellow, white, red phono lead that came with the camcorder, into a switchable scart adapter of the sort you have just bought. Works perfectly every time as long as the camcorder is in player and not camera mode.

[sirugo]

The story about the 8000E sounds exactly like mine. But the difference is obviously that your works and mine don't.

One strange thing I've noticed is that I have a post in the camcorder menus saying: NTSC PB
There I can choose from ON PAL TV and NTSC 4.43
Why is the post called NTSC PB when my camera is a PAL-camera?

Richard: did your camcorder-menu change after DV-IN was enabled?
Mine did not if I remember things correctly.
Also: the movie youäre passing through also appears in the camcorder's viewfinder, not only in the computer?
And it appears also if you only have the VCR connected to the camcorder and computer disconnected?

[The_Doman]

One strange thing I've noticed is that I have a post in the camcorder menus saying: NTSC PB
There I can choose from ON PAL TV and NTSC 4.43
Why is the post called NTSC PB when my camera is a PAL-camera?

Those settings are for how to playback a NTSC DV tape in the camcorder
Playback on PAL TV will put out a PAL60 signal (PAL with 60 HZ).
NTSC 4.43 will output a TRUE NTSC signal, most PAL TV's can't handle that.

And here a screenshot on my D8-TRV120 with AV-in passthrough enabled.
You can switch between the AV-in/DV-in option.
But again, I don't think the older models have that option available.