Reauthoring DVD (simple way) but with *corrected* aspect RAT

[dinkob]

If any of you own Criterion Collection The Rock or Armageddon, even though it says on the box that it is 2:35:1 the video is actually 4:3 with proper viewing size for widescreen.

Now I am onto this project in a simple reauthoring process without all the uneccessary garbage, just picture and english language.

The following is the process and my questions;

Rip the movie.
Use DVD2AVI to save the movie as project (1. none field order, 2. Forced Film - I'll get back to this later).
Use Tmpgenc or other VFAPI tool where I would export it to VirtualDub for Lancos resize and resaving it as 720x480 but with taller picture so aspect ratio would be true 16:9 (so my tv doesn't choke the picture when played). So far crop values are set at 60 on top and bottom but I have yet to measure this precisely.
Lastly encode it with CCE Basic prefferably but we'll see what else comes to play.


Here's the thing.

1. When I specify the Force Film in DVD2AVI frame rate now becomes 24 fps and there are no interlaced frames and when I encode that with CCE Basic (tested briefly for now) the picture is OK but the fluidity lacks (this looks like correct way)

2. But I can also take None As Field order in DVD2AVI and then specify Inverse 3:2 pulldown in Advanced menu option of CCE Basic and deinterlace it, however the footage still displays interlaced artifacts.

B.T.W it also looks like I shouldn't select DVD in the second option as AV will get out of sync.

Since CCE Basic doesn't quite support pulldown flags what should be the proper framerate to encode this movie as final step (and what to choose as Field order with DVD2AVI?).

[guns1inger]

Encode at 23.976 and use DGPulldown to add the flags.

I will check my copy, but I suspect it is alread 23.976, so inverse 3:2 etc should not be required. Also, I suspect it is progressive, so deinterlacing may be a waste of time.

Personally, I think you are wasting your time. The US Criterion release of this film was later released over here as the studio version, and actually is anamorphic. This means there is an anamorphic version available. You would be better off trying to get a copy of this than wasting your time converting your current version.

[dinkob]

Ok thanks for that proggy.

When I ran it on my 23.97 encoded Film and opened it up in VirtualDub MPEG-2 I couldn't notice any Interlaced frames though? Is that what's supposed to happen or there is something "else" I am doing wrong.

Also I mentioned deinterlacing when I tell to DVD2AVI to treat it as Non-Film material. Then scanning through virtualdub will reveal 4th and 5th frame to be interlaced, hence I used that in CCE but still not a very good result regardless of options selected.

Edited the remainder of the text because of missunderstanding.

[guns1inger]

Either all frames will be interlaced, or no frames will be interlaced. There is no inbetween. Pulldown is not related to interlacing.

Pulldown controls the creation of extra frames for playback in devices requiring 29.976 fps. The 4/5 frames would be false frames created when encoding 23.976 material at 29.976. CCE will encode at 23.976 (which is what I do all the time), and DGPulldown will add in the flags that CCE SP puts in when encoding at this framerate.

[mikiem]

Adding to that, more or less trivia I guess, many set-top players will add in effect their own pulldown on playback. They have to send a signal to the TV that it will accept, so in NA NTSC, that means 29.976. With the few players I've got access to, seems to be the same quality as adding pulldown in software, with the exception of Sony's version of mainconcept encoder -- it seems to do a better job.

[guns1inger]

The player uses the pulldown flags in the video to create these. This is why DVD authoring software requires that 23.976 video has pulldown flags already, or it will add them. Your choice is simple - add pulldown flags for 23.976, or encode at 29.976 and risk screwing it up.

[mikiem]

"The player uses the pulldown flags in the video to create these. "

If they're there, yes, but try it. Few years back used to IVT all my captures & burn to SVCD... When I started out I was looking for the best way to add pulldown, & wondered: "What if I don't"? It worked. When I got a DVD drive, went thru it all over again, & it still worked without pulldown.

I don't know if this is common, or just the few players we have here. I don't think the players actually add pulldown, but just convert the results of decoding to an in-spec signal for the TV, in my case 29.976.

Haven't really played with it that much -- just a curriosity I came across. Found with the SVCDs adding pulldown while encoding in Vegas worked better, so used that, but burning 23.976 looked the same as the pulldown app available at the time. My full-sized captures for DVD don't do as well with IVT (go figure), so other then verifying 23.976 works I haven't used it.

[dinkob]

Heh, thanks for the replies but let me try to rephrase the question.

The original DVD looks like so;

Frames; picture type

1;progressive, 2;progressive, 3;progressive, 4;interlaced, 5;interlaced, 6; progressive, etc....

In other words the movie is telecined obviously.

So if I then set Film Field Operation in DVD2AVI the whole movie becomes progressive at this point at 23.97 fps.


At that point what should be done to encode it "telecined" as original was but with different aspect ratio (b.t.w. it looks like crop values before resize are 58 and 58 EDIT actually scratch that it's 77 and 77) ?
It looks to me that pulldown might be the wrong wording in my question.(true/false?)