BluRay Region Coding Announced - Japan & US Same Region

[GullyFoyle]

http://gamersreports.com/news/705/

Here is some Christmas Day good news for you! IT Media has announced some details on the Blu-Ray region coding and it holds a nice surprise. Japan, North America, and East Asia will all be sharing one region code. This potentially means that American gamers will be able to import Japanese PS3 Blu-Ray games, and will definately be able to import Japanese Blu-Ray Anime/Movie titles without any hassle. Europe unfortunately will be sharing a region code with Africa so likely not much cross-gaming there. Sorry Europe, looks like you will be getting the gaming bone again. Oh and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all from all of us here at GR!

Masakazu Honda @ ITMedia reports about the final review version of the AACS contents management system for HD formats such as Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD. AACS LA consists of IBM, Sony, Toshiba, Warner, Intel, Microsoft, Matsushita, and Disney.

+ ICT (Image Constrain Token) must be supported by AACS software and hardware as Warner wanted. ICT is utilized to limit hi-res analog output. But in countries such as Japan in which the laws prohibit ICT, it's not required until 2011. Contents providers except for Warner say they don't use ICT, but according to Honda even Warner won't use it because of commercial reasons.

+ Though Warner was eager to abolish region code and there were no objection until the final decision, film companies not in AACS LA opposed it and it was decided that region code stays in BD-ROM. But it undergoes reorganization. Basically, Japan and other East Asian countries except for China are moved to Region 1. The new region codes are

Region 1: North America, South America, East Asia except for China (India, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia etc.)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: China, Russia and other countries

IMHO, most likely, the handling of region codes in the PS3 BD will be the same as PSP (no regions in games).

No region coding would be nice. Europe seems to get screwed. I wonder if China not being included in Asia is punishment for something. Possibly their new competing dvd format and players?

[waheed]

Europe seems to get screwed

NO ! ! !

[Xylob the Destroyer]

movie regions and game regions are two different things though.
it's good to know that Japanese BluRay movies will work here, but that doesn't automatically mean that Japanese games will.

[GullyFoyle]

This potentially means that American gamers will be able to import Japanese PS3 Blu-Ray games

I imagine they are starting to look toward unified compatability for maximum profit. I bet you will pay quite a bit more for a Japanese import same as you di now but without the hassle.
I'm still baffled why there is region coding anyway. It is easily circumvented.
If everything were released on the same day worldwide there would be no need for region coding and it would make somewhet of a dent in piracy. Maybe not great but I assume there are people who would rather buy the product if they had access and instead are forced to download it because it is available somewhere else.
There is still time for SONY to screw it up though. 8)

[RottenFoxBreath]

this is great news,now apart from not getting the latest us or jap games,and possibly movies too,i now get the kick in the nuts that the only fecking thing i can import is african or hungarian/eastern european titles..and there are so many african/eastern european blockbusters i want to see,that and some way out there hungarian animation..fecking twats,it should be a worldwide region,no locks or areas at all.

[edDV]

There are two kinds of regions, marketing and technical.

The good thing about HDTV (BD or HD) is 1080p/24 is moving towards a single world standard for movie* distribution. This means the actual 1080p/24 data on a DVD can be the same across all NTSC/PAL regions.

1080p/24 can be played directly in ATSC regions (frame repeated to 59.94 fps) or easily "telecined" in the player to 29.97 fps for legacy display. It can also be played to 25fps or frame repeated for 50 or 100 fps in the PAL region players.

Bottom line the technical differences are removed for multi-region movie DVD at the disc data level. This is why the new marketing regions can include a mix or formerly PAL and NTSC countries.

* Video originated material may still require framerate conversion or deinterlacing if 1080i, but the 1920x1080 raster size is the same. 720p, 480p or 480i material can be displayed directly or upscaled in the player chips. These all become player issues.

[GullyFoyle]

this is great news,now apart from not getting the latest us or jap games,and possibly movies too,i now get the kick in the nuts that the only fecking thing i can import is african or hungarian/eastern european titles..and there are so many african/eastern european blockbusters i want to see,that and some way out there hungarian animation..fecking twats,it should be a worldwide region,no locks or areas at all.

Funny about that. I just saw a comedian last night talking about hwo people the US was once at war with are now our friends. He said he couldn't wait for Iraqi Anime and Iraqi video games.
Maybe someday you will be on the cutting edge of the import region.
On the plus side Eastern European porn might be worth it.

[RottenFoxBreath]

haha,it always descends to porn.lol.mind you though,the hungarian/eastern european porn is ace,not that i have a lot,but er...um...ah....ive said to much.pmsl.

[GullyFoyle]

haha,it always descends to porn.lol.mind you though,the hungarian/eastern european porn is ace,not that i have a lot,but er...um...ah....ive said to much.pmsl.

Funny thing is Porn always leads in technology. Probably from cave paintings on. But definitely from the camera on.
One of the first uses from webcams was porn and voyeurism.
Now PSP and cells get porn.

[ROF]

I'm glad to hear they are reducing the amount of confusion caused by having too many region codes. It's also good to hear that East Asia and US are the same region because alot of good imports come from there to the US and there is nothing worse than buying a worthless disc. Sad to hear that Europe wasn't included but if they were I guess region coding might be pretty much meaningless.

[RottenFoxBreath]

just another example of the indusrty with its head up its own arse.
still,ill still be importing most movies and games,the european release schedule for most things is poor at best.

[edDV]

Putting on a Euro hat for a moment, I wonder if they are going to work region coding into the HDCP encryption? That might mean that a Region 1 DVD may not play on a Region 2 HDTV and visa versa.

[RottenFoxBreath]

more than likely thatll happen,who knows what shit theyll pull eventually.

[GullyFoyle]

I'm glad to hear they are reducing the amount of confusion caused by having too many region codes. It's also good to hear that East Asia and US are the same region because alot of good imports come from there to the US and there is nothing worse than buying a worthless disc. Sad to hear that Europe wasn't included but if they were I guess region coding might be pretty much meaningless.

Except for anything from China.
Stupid to lump China with Russia.
Stupid to lump Europe with Africa.

[pchan]

Those guys who set up the region code are still living in Gondwana land...prehistoric time ... time of the dinosour. They should take some modern geography lesson. Why implement something that doesn't work ?

[Cobra]

I'm sick of seeing them putting region coding on their discs and actually getting away with it. What purpose, in reality, does it serve other than allowing price fixing? Why can't the legal system see this and nail them for it?

[dvdguy4]

I'm sick of seeing them putting region coding on their discs and actually getting away with it. What purpose, in reality, does it serve other than allowing price fixing? Why can't the legal system see this and nail them for it?

Because the legal system works for them.

[adam]

What purpose, in reality, does it serve other than allowing price fixing? Why can't the legal system see this and nail them for it?

Parallel importing. Its illegal in most countries and region protection does limit it greatly, but it also limits alot of permissible activity too and it probably promotes alot of illicit activity as well such as pirating. But no practice has to be perfect to be legal.

The fact of the matter is that intellectual property cannot be licensed internationally, it must be done regionally. The same game/movie sold in 10 different countries is literally considered 10 different products. As such, the industries want to keep them separated or at least keep certain ones from intermingling. Region protection is simply used to enforce the regional limitations of your license. Its annoying and not very friendly for the consumer, but I don't think it comes anywhere close to constituting anticompetitive activity that would be prohibited by Antitrust laws.

[GullyFoyle]

Since some of us defend the status quo no matter what it is ALWAYS useful to have another viewpoint.
http://hometheater.about.com/cs/dvdlaserdisc/a/aaregioncodesa.htm

he Reasons For DVD Region Coding

Why does DVD region coding exist, you ask? According to what the public is being told, such coding is a tool to protect copyright and film distribution rights (in other words, movie studio profits).

Movies are released in theaters in different parts of the world at different times throughout the year. That Summer blockbuster in the U.S. may end up being the Christmas blockbuster overseas. If that occurs, the DVD version of the movie may be out in the U.S. while it is still showing in theaters overseas.

In order to preserve the financial integrity of the theatrical distribution of a particular film, it is not possible (under normal conditions) to have a friend in the U.S. send a DVD copy of the film to the country where it is in theatrical release and be able to play the DVD on a player there.

Region Coding - The Good and The Bad

Depending on who you are, region coding can be considered a blessing or a curse. If you are movie studio executive, this is great, not only do you reap maximum profits from the theatrical releases, but also from the DVD releases for your film. However, if you are a consumer wanting to see a movie that is available on DVD in your relative's or friend's country but not in yours, you may have to wait quite a while.

However, another suspected rationale for region coding is beginning to emerge, possible price-fixing of DVDs depending on region. Although this is yet to be legally proven in court, if proven to be true, Australian and European courts may just put the heat on Hollywood and manufacturers to discontinue region coding as a marketing practice. New Zealand has been trying to elminate DVD region code restrictions in that country.

Pricefixing rears it's ugly head again.

http://corpinfo.universalstudios.com/faqs.asp?section=HV

The main reasons for regional coding are to prevent the theatrical release of a title in one region being jeopardized by imports of DVDs from other regions, and to protect the interests of foreign distributors

Translated to be MAXIMIZE profit at all costs. Also different from so called legal explanations posted here.

http://www.henninger.com/dvd/regions/index.nclk

Why do they do that? It depends on who you ask. Since the movie studios asked for the technology (demanded it, actually) their reasons are really the only relevant ones. Movie studios may wish to (or be forced to) make a movie available in different parts of the world at different times. The region coding on DVDs will prevent the average user from playing a DVD in a region where the film has not been released.

Movie studios must also control the content seen by different regions within the same movie. A scene that would be humorous in one region could spark a civil war in another, so the movie studios adjust the movie with alternate dialog or images to work around cultural or political issues. You would be amazed at how much work goes into getting a movie past the censorship board of several hundred countries in dozens of languages. The movie studios may need to re-shoot or re-edit whole sections before it can be released in certain areas of the world, which accounts for some of the delays in international releases. Region coding helps keep the correct versions of these movies within the proper borders.

Then, there are the mass market speculators that are looking for covert reasons for region coding. Some claim to have found a pattern of price fixing by using DVD regions. Others claim censorship plays a role. Whatever the case, the movie studios are firmly in control of their distribution channels, including DVD. With the continuing "box office slump", DVD releases are becoming more important to studios needing to generate revenue. You can bet your socks they will defend whatever controls/restrictions they can use to maximize the return on investment.

Nothing what so ever about copyright varying by region in either the "official" post or the opinion posts.

Now for the REAL leagl explanation
http://www.lawfont.com/2005/12/22/what-is-region-coding/

Why region coding? The market for DVDs

Why does region coding exist? In short, the system is an ingenious way for the entertainment industry to segment its market and protect various revenue streams. Recent developments suggest, however, that the original perceived need for the system has begun to erode.

Traditionally, the main source of revenue for movie studios was box office takings, ie, in-cinema screenings of motion pictures. In recent years, this reality has changed. According to The New York Times, while DVD sales represented 28.7% of movie studio revenues for feature films in 1996, DVD sales represented 47.9% of revenues in 2004. During the same period, theatrical release revenues dropped slightly, from 24.5% to 23.1%. Interestingly, during the same period video (and DVD) rentals have dropped from 23.8% to 12.0% over the same period. (The reason for the drop in rentals is unclear, and is likely to be the result of several factors, including the affordability of DVDs and their greater longevity when compared to video tapes.)

Regional coding assists movie studios to keep separate and protect these revenue streams. Industry justifications for region coding include (1) protection of copyright material (the movies), (2) the preservation of in-theatre revenues, and (3) as a means of protecting against parallel imports.

Protection of copyright material

This reason given for regional coding is essentially a justification for the CSS encryption system. The idea is that without encryption, the production of high-quality digital content might fall, as content providers (the movie studios) would be less willing to produce content for which they would not earn a reasonable return. CSS reduces the risk of piracy, which is a considerable problem for DVDs, as it is very easy to make high-quality copies of unprotected DVDs. However, the regional coding system does more than protect against piracy. It also prevents consumers from playing lawfully purchased and imported DVDs on locally-purchased DVD players.

Preservation of in-theatre revenues

Another possible justification by the movie industry for regional coding is the preservation of theatre screening revenues. For many years, there was a distinct lag between when movies were released in the United States and in the rest of the world. By separating North America into Region 1, the industry could ensure that consumers outside of Region 1 would continue to go to movie theatres, rather than simply purchasing movies on Amazon.com in advance of their release locally.

However, this justification is quickly eroding. Many films are now released outside of the United States soon after their United States premieres. From looking at release dates for blockbuster films on the Internet Movie Database, the average delay was two to three months between American and Australian release dates, but sometimes was only a few weeks apart. In a few cases, releases are simultaneous (as was the case with the Star Wars prequels).

The argument that region coding exists to preserve in-theatre revenues is not particularly strong when it comes to old movie titles and television shows, which for the most part are also issued with region coding. There appears to be little reason why the entertainment industry has not decided to release older titles without regional coding. The supply of titles differs between regions, and in particular with respect to older releases. The vast majority of titles are issued for Region 1 only, and many titles are not issued at all outside that region. In addition, some titles are released in the other regions, especially non-English language titles.

Protection against parallel imports

Parallel imports, simply put, are genuine (ie, not pirated) products that are legally-purchased in one country, and then offered for sale in another country without the permission of the holder of intellectual property rights in those products. Parallel imports are sometimes referred to as “grey” products, and trading in them is referred to as a “grey” market.

An argument advanced by the Australian DVD Association in the past has been that region coding protects consumers against parallel importation of DVDs. The assumption behind this argument is that parallel importation of DVDs is undesirable from the consumer’s perspective. To the contrary, many consumers would welcome parallel imports of DVDs, as the range of titles available would increase. Not allowing the parallel importation of DVDs is, however, to the advantage of the movie studios, which can then enforce separate, geographically-defined markets

To date, the parallel importation of movies for commercial resale is not permitted under Australian law, although the parallel import of CDs, software, and books are allowed. Filmed entertainment has been treated differently than music, software and books, and it is unlikely (despite efforts to the contrary) that provisions allowing for their parallel importation will be recommended, according to the Australian Attorney-General, Philip Ruddock.

Economic effects

What are the economic effects of regional coding? In other words, why does the movie industry support this system? There are several potential reasons and consequences.

Market segmentation

Region coding allows movie studios to segment the global market into sections, which enables the use of different marketing and release date strategies in each region. It also enables the studios to decide how much of an investment they will make in a particular title, based on the estimated demand in each region-defined market. In addition, the use of a technological means of segmentation prevents substitution between regions, and enforces the market segmentation boundaries.

The fact that the same titles are not released in each region, or at least not at the same time, shows the use of this market segmentation ability. For example, the majority of titles are released for Region 1, and many never reach other regions. In 1999, only 720 titles were available in Region 4, compared to over 5000 in Region 1. Some non-English language films are never released outside of their home region.

Price discrimination

Region coding also allows the industry to charge different prices for the same titles in different regions. Even with exchange rate equalisation, prices tend to differ between regions.

Product differentiation

Even if the studio producing a particular DVD charges the same price for a title in all regions where it is released, the content on that DVD may differ. For example, additional features (both those disclosed on the packaging and surprise “Easter eggs”) are not always included in non-Region 1 DVDs. In addition, not all versions of a title offer the choice between widescreen and standard format. In Australia, the competition/antitrust law regulator, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, has argued that DVDs marketed in Region 4 (which includes Australia) are of poorer quality than those sold in Region 1.

Creation of artificial barriers to trade and reduced competition

Even if importing Region 1 DVDs into Australia for sale was legal, there would be no market amongst consumers owning unmodified DVD players sold in the Australian market. This aspect of CSS might thus create an artificial barrier to trade between countries.

In addition, since only the licensees that abide by the regional protection conditions retain CSS license, potential DVD manufacturers that might be willing not to agree with those conditions will not have access to the crucial piece of technology necessary to make a functioning DVD player.

Consumer lock-in

Finally, region coding creates consumer lock-in. This means that once consumers commit to a collection of movie DVDs or PlayStation games coded for a particular region, and purchase a player/console compatible with that region, they are then “locked in” to continuing to purchase movies or games only from that region.

Although lock-in is a function of geographic location in this context, it nonetheless influences the consumer’s choice of titles. Switching is not practical, unless the consumer has access to a player that has been modified to be multi-region or regionless, and thus is compatible with content marketed for any and all regions. Alternatively, some consumers might be able to purchase an additional DVD player from the second region from which they purchase the most content.

Each alternative has its problems. The first option – using a modified DVD player or PlayStation console – will be discussed in greater depth in Part 2, which considers the legal issues raised by region coding and the efforts to bypass this system.

Profit, profit, profit and consumers be damned.
Now you know the truth about region coding and greedy big media.

[lenti_75]

locking is an idioting thing.....spendign money for nothing

you can easily just rip it and unlock it...voila

[adam]

Saying that region coding doesn't rise to the level of antitrust violations is hardly defending it. Cobra asked a question, I tried to answer it.

Mods, I'm dying here. Can't you guys do something about GullyFoyle already? Every single time I post this happens.

[FulciLives]

I just bought a NTSC HDTV that is a rear projection unit capable of displaying 540p or 1080i although it accepts inputs of 480i/480p, 720p and 1080i. It has a HDMI input.

So if Blue-Ray uses 1080p on the DVD I assume there will be no "issues" with a "downgrade" to 1080i but maybe I should have waited for a 1080p display?

In other words did I screw up and "jump the gun" on my purchase?

I was under the impression that HD DVD (red laser) and Blue-Ray were using 720p on the DVD not 1080p but based on what edDV said earlier in this thread it sounds like it will be 1080p?

So damn confusing!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

1080p it is

[Wile_E]

I wish they would add DV AVI playback to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I'd like to put my captured DV files on a disc, and play them straight back, without encoding using lossy compression. They need to make the players capable of sustaining DV playback rates.

[GullyFoyle]

Saying that region coding doesn't rise to the level of antitrust violations is hardly defending it. Cobra asked a question, I tried to answer it.

Mods, I'm dying here. Can't you guys do something about GullyFoyle already? Every single time I post this happens.

What happens? Facts get posted to refute your claims. What is wrong with that?
Or do you expect everyone to mindlessly agree with you?
Before I go I do have a couple of questions, like what flavor law you practice and how long since you passed the bar?
I read way back from your first post. I got bored around June 2003, I think, until then there is not a single leagl post. not an observation nor a stutter.
How long have you been practicing?
And what type lawyers are you, civil? Corporate? Obviously not constitutional.
Sure you offer legal advice, and because most people are accepting the read it. But con men work along the same lines.
You seeming to be reasonable and nice.
Not that I consider you a con artist.
More like a Chiropractor giving surgical advice.
A Chiropractor with barely any experience at that.
I wonder could that be the reason you complain when I challenge your claims. Challenge them with facts not opinion or interpretation.
Is that the scent of fear I smell?

[Cornucopia]

1080p it is

I know this is getting slightly OT, but I thought that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray could/would support ALL ED/HD resolution flavors (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). Quality-wise, I'm sure it makes sense to distribute 1080p--if the title has already been digitized that way or is a new digitization candidate--but what about properties that are already digital in a less-than-optimal format? Plus, there's "cheapo" studios that may want to maximize quantity, or minimize transfer costs, etc... So couldn't there be a variety of flavors that the settop player must support (and/or resize on the fly)? It's going to have to do that anyway with SD material, right?

Back On-Topic: Anybody on this board beyond week-old newbies can probably figure out how to get around DVD region coding (hardware hacks, RC resets, decrypter, etc). I'm sure once 2nd and 3rd tier HD players come online, they'll have hacks too.

@Gullyfoyle: I'm a liberal, fair-use advocate also, but you're going a little overboard with the attacks on adam. He's been pretty objective with his recitations/explanations of the Law as-it-is-currently-written/interpreted by the legal community (yes, I know this is the corporate party line which has financed the politicos which has generated the legislation/judicial rulings, but that's currently the way it is).
Plus, if you read between the lines a little more, you'll see he doesn't particularly "like" the anti-consumer status quo, per se. Lighten up!

Scott

[edDV]

1080p it is

I know this is getting slightly OT, but I thought that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray could/would support ALL ED/HD resolution flavors (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). Quality-wise, I'm sure it makes sense to distribute 1080p--if the title has already been digitized that way or is a new digitization candidate--but what about properties that are already digital in a less-than-optimal format? Plus, there's "cheapo" studios that may want to maximize quantity, or minimize transfer costs, etc... So couldn't there be a variety of flavors that the settop player must support (and/or resize on the fly)? It's going to have to do that anyway with SD material, right?

Films are normally offered at 1080p/24 after being scanned higher at 4kx2k to 4kx4k typ. The player will offer downscaled 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. Only 480p and 480i will be offered to TV sets without HDCP active connections (same as current DVD).

It's not clear to me whether upscaled material will be able to carry the logo. They may need something like the AAD ADD DDD ratings for CD audio.

[pchan]

Parallel importing. Its illegal in most countries and region protection does limit it greatly, but it also limits alot of permissible activity too and it probably promotes alot of illicit activity as well such as pirating. But no practice has to be perfect to be legal.

I beg to defer... I am from region code 3. I recently bought a Star Wars DVD region code 1. In my place, all DVDs have to have a censorship sticker. So, it's legal. All shops here claim code 1 is better than 3. So, I bought the code 1 just to see any difference. Doesn't look any different to the naked eye.

P.S. Region code 1 cost 30% more than code 3. Sucker indeed !

[GullyFoyle]

@Gullyfoyle: I'm a liberal, fair-use advocate also, but you're going a little overboard with the attacks on adam. He's been pretty objective with his recitations/explanations of the Law as-it-is-currently-written/interpreted by the legal community (yes, I know this is the corporate party line which has financed the politicos which has generated the legislation/judicial rulings, but that's currently the way it is).
Plus, if you read between the lines a little more, you'll see he doesn't particularly "like" the anti-consumer status quo, per se. Lighten up!

Scott

Adam is a whiner. Check back to the hissy he threw over a disagreement with Lord Smurf. Also not my bad mark comes from an Adam whine, and again his begging to the mods to step in and save his ass.
Adam defends the status quo of big media. I think because he is mainly a novice attorney without any imagination or depth.
He pretends to be more than he is.
Because most of us do not know legal speak we simply nod our heads in agreement.
I don't buy it.
We don't know what field of law he is in. We don't know who he works for, which will always shade ones view. We don't know how long ago he passed the bar, what his grades were, how many cases he has covered.
We know ABSOLUTELY nothing about him and are expected to accept his leagal wisdom.
The guy is a total stranger that we only know through his typing.
Fact is we all are.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. GullyFoyle has now been banned, as he was told he would be if he kept this behaviour up. The warning was here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1423851&highlight=#1423851
/ Moderator Cobra

[adam]

Parallel importing. Its illegal in most countries and region protection does limit it greatly, but it also limits alot of permissible activity too and it probably promotes alot of illicit activity as well such as pirating. But no practice has to be perfect to be legal.

I beg to defer... I am from region code 3. I recently bought a Star Wars DVD region code 1. In my place, all DVDs have to have a censorship sticker. So, it's legal. All shops here claim code 1 is better than 3. So, I bought the code 1 just to see any difference. Doesn't look any different to the naked eye.

P.S. Region code 1 cost 30% more than code 3. Sucker indeed !

I don't follow you. If the DVD is available in both regions than that is not parallel importing. Also, parallel importing is regulated per country not per DVD region. And also regardless of what your country's stance is on parallel importing, what I said is factually accurate. Most countries do not allow it and that is one of the things that region coding seeks to control.