VCR to DVD: Anything better than JVC HR-S5902U under $200?

[Justin42]

The link to the place selling refurbed 9911s is interesting, and a decent price, but I wonder how legit he is. He/they have good Ebay feedback but some weird things pop up googling abcdeals. HRrrrm. I emailed (there are like 4 total up from them) and they assured me they had a 90 day warranty but I wonder if that's for real since they're being bought through Ebay.

[davideck]

My understanding of four head vs two head VCRs is that one set will be narrow 19micron and optimized for the 6 hour speed recording. The other two heads will be much larger and are use for the 2 hour speed when recording and playing back.

The reason is that the tape runs so slow at 6 hour (ep) speed the wide heads would overlap the last track being recorded. OTOH the wide heads should give results at preventing dropouts and a better s/n ratio to the recorder electronics.

You are correct TBoneit.
The head_to_tape speed is determined primarily by the rotation of the scanner.
Changing the linear tape speed from SP to EP only changes the head_to_tape speed by a very small fraction. It is enough to change the gap between successive tracks, but not enough to appreciably change the length of the tracks.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/vcr4.htm

[LCSHG]

[ davideck ]

My explanation was basic, the tape speed across the recording head is not small. Thanks to Helical scanning the length of the tape required can be drastically reduced. the speed change across the head [scanner] is in a direct ratio with respect to the recording speed [Tape Speed] or mode.
The head [scanner] rotates at a constant speed

Take a look at this site It puts the operation of the VHS in a decent perspective. Especially the one on The VCR
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/vcr.htm

[FulciLives]

I have a Toshiba multi-system Hi-Fi Stereo VHS VCR that has 8 heads ... figure that one out!

It is capable of NTSC and PAL and also SECAM but does no conversion from one to the other.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[davideck]

the speed change across the head [scanner] is in a direct ratio with respect to the recording speed [Tape Speed] or mode.

howstuffworks refers to the scanner as a "rotating head drum". Then they shorten that to just "head", making things rather confusing.

The actual record/playback heads are mounted on the rotating half (upper half) of the scanner. As the scanner rotates, the heads sweep across the tape at high speed, essentially independent of the linear tape speed. Still frame is possible because the heads are still sweeping across the tape at high speed even when the linear tape speed is zero.

This quote from howstuff works is confusing...

The head is rotating at 1,800 revolutions per minute (rpm), or 30 revolutions per second. In SP mode, the tape is moving past the head at 1.31 linear inches per second (33.35 mmps). [In LP mode, it's 0.66 ips (16.7 mmps), and in EP mode it's 0.44 ips (11.12 mmps).] Because of the head rotation, however, the head is moving over the tape at 228.5 inches (5804 mm) per second, or about 25 miles per hour (41 kph)!

It would be less confusing if it read...

The upper half of the scanner is rotating at 1,800 revolutions per minute (rpm), or 30 revolutions per second. In SP mode, the tape is moving past the scanner at 1.31 linear inches per second (33.35 mmps). [In LP mode, it's 0.66 ips (16.7 mmps), and in EP mode it's 0.44 ips (11.12 mmps).] Because of the scanner rotation, however, the heads on the scanner are moving over the tape at 228.5 inches (5804 mm) per second, or about 25 miles per hour (41 kph)!

So the head_to_tape speed is about 228.5 ips, while the linear tape speed at SP is 1.31 ips and at EP is .44 ips. At still frame, the linear tape speed is 0 ips while the head_to_tape speed is still about 228.5 ips.

[LCSHG]

[ FulciLives ]

8 heads , Man I've got enough trouble with 1.

I think the JVC unit with 6 will do NTSC, Pal, SVHS, etc but I bet it only uses 2 for play. I think in the olden days of VCR the technical guys teamed up with the sales guys to convince the mases that while 4 was better than 2. --- 6 has to be better than 4 and so on.

It realy sounds like [tlukon] is hung up on a VCR.
For his needs it might be the way to go but he better get a good stock of the best tapes he can get. I have an old 8 track audio unit and a whole pile of New 8 track cartridges. The cartridges are where the real value is
Not a year ago the video stores had more VHS tapes than DVD now the same store has way more DVD than VHS. Many of the old movies that I have dubed to DVD are now on DVD in wide screen,some in 4:3

PS !!! You have to be carefull on ebay. I saw a Liteon 5045 listed New for $349.00 with $31.00 shipping. [6 bidders] This unit can be purchased on line for $293.00, no tax and free shipping.

[FulciLives]

It is funny how apart from some very few rare gems ... many of my VHS tapes are on official DVD and nearly all of my LaserDisc stuff is now as well.

Sometimes you have to wonder ... is it worth all this trouble? Spending time to put some rare VHS on DVD only to have a DVD come out at some point.

But we all have at least some rare stuff that has not yet been released and might never get released as well as the really "special" stuff like home shot family footage etc.

I have a really funny feeling though that once the next format comes out (be it HD red laser or Blue-Ray etc.) that us hardcore nuts will be converting all those VHS and LaserDiscs once again from scratch LOL

I started this thread with the thought ... why bother spending all this money on a S-VHS VCR etc. but now that I think about it ... you will need that VCR to convert to DVD now as well as future formats like HD DVD then SuperHD DVD then AwesomeHD DVD etc.

So I guess it is a good purchase to make afterall

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mattso]

8 heads , Man I've got enough trouble with 1.

[mattso]

I have a really funny feeling though that once the next format comes out (be it HD red laser or Blue-Ray etc.) that us hardcore nuts will be converting all those VHS and LaserDiscs once again from scratch LOL


- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Too true! Buy your VCR NOW!!!

[LCSHG]

[ FulciLives ].

Agree with your Post

A friend had a tape of Dr Strangelove that he wanted on DVD. It was recorded with a good 6-head unit but at SLP. It was not that good. Resolution was poor.

I don’t believe the recorder was a problem. I think the tape was, It had been used to often. I have a DVD+RW that has been used over and over [some 250 times] and is still perfect.

There was a broadcast of this film [no commercials] in wide screen. I'm sure that it was a DVD made from an “original” tape. I recorded it on a DVD at SP. Results were much,much better. Much Better

I than recorded The DVD to good Tape at SP It was in my opinion as good as the DVD.

I copied the Tape to a tape some 4 times using a copy to copy again. Did the same with the DVD.
In the last VHS copy you could see some loss of resolution. None in the DVD.

I copied the original DVD copy to a tape at a 4 hr mode the result was not good. Did the same with a DVD at 4hr. The result was a slight loss of resolution but much better than the tape

Test result
Digital DVD retains it quality, is better than VHS
Analog VHS has seen its day.

Has this been done before



[ mattso ]

Very True

Get a GOOD VCR NOW but if you are going to record, make sure you have sufficient good quality tapes. The Bateaux tapes are almost impossible to get

It looks like that thing with 8 heads is pissed at every-thing, every-body including itself. I hope my VCR doesn't feel that way but than the one only has 6 heads the others 4
I don't see how that thing with 8 heads can get along with itself

[LCSHG]

[ tluxon ]


Your Original Question
It seems that all you want is to dub some very good VHS tape at SP to a DVD.

If so I belive that most good VHS units, by that I mean one that is in excelent working order. will do the job on playback. Color does not seem to be a problem as it was with a DVD.

I have two very good Panasonic 4 head VCR's. A very, very good Toshiba 6 head and the Go-Video 4Head Combo VCR/DVD.

They all play a tape as good as the other.

Recording may be a different story

The Go-Video only has SP and SLP for recording. The SLP is not very good but neither are the panasonic's This is recording only. It will play any speed is automatic in speed and tracking and does a very good job. The tracking prvides a manual adjustment.

The Panasonic's are also very good. Record SP,LP SLP and have the same features.

The toshiba is a very good machine that was and is a top quality unit that will, better, handle [correct for] a poor tape. If I was dealing with a bum tape this would be the machine I would use . Not because of a better quality playback but because the units features and nechamism is better aple to handle a poor tape. Don't confuse poor tape for poor video quality. Poor video can be a result of a poor tape even when using SP.

The Toshiba will do a slightly better job in recording SLP. Of course it will record SVHS, but why

AS I said I use the Go-Video to dub. It works fine

[tluxon]

Right. I don't expect to ever record to a VHS or S-VHS tape. In fact, nobody in our family has recorded anything on any of our VCRs since early in 2001 when we got three ReplayTVs.

Nonetheless, we want a working VCR at each TV because the kids use all of them periodically. Much of what they watch is educational material or are older videos they love that aren't available on DVD or that I don't want to take the time to digitize.

Since one of the bedroom's VCRs needs to be replaced, I want to equip that TV with a HDD DVD recorder for time-shifting shows because my ReplayTV network doesn't extend into that room. If I have a DVD recorder in there I want a VCR that will make a good dubbing machine because I have a lot of old tapes I want to put on DVD. At least 20 of these tapes are from a VHS Camcorder I used extensively starting in 1986. These are high quality tapes - mostly TDK HDX - recorded at SP speed and I want the digital copies to be the best I can do with affordable consumer equipment.

Several contributors left me with the impression that a S-VHS VCR would do a better job playing these tapes than a standard VHS VCR even though the tapes are only VHS. I have had some very good and expensive VCRs ($1400 list NEC N895EU, $600 list Mitsubishi HS-U57) and yet the one that I've had the best success with and results from is a less-expensive Toshiba W-704 (6-head, 19 micron).

I'd love to just go out an overbuy a really nice S-VHS VCR, but I've also noticed that a more recent trend is that manufacturers build them more cheaply than they used to and it's quite possible that they won't hold up to the same use an older unit would. On the other hand, if I buy used I have no idea how many hours are on the unit which may render it a lesser value than a new one. If I'm going to buy something that is more of a disposable unit I would just as soon get something that's not too expensive (e.g. this $145 JVC HR-S5902U) as long as it doesn't compromise too much on giving me good recordings.

That's why I'm a little "hung up" with these choices.

Tim

[tluxon]

Say, if I'm going to be spending a bit of money for a decent VCR, why not get something like this JVC HM-DH40000U that plays and records HDTV as well as being backward compatible with S-VHS and VHS. It even has a TBC, 4MB Frame memory, and digital filtering circuitry.

I gotta say, this looks like an intriguing alternative but I haven't really thought this through. Am I missing something obvious? Would this be a big waste of $300?

[ edit in ] It may seem like a wasteful alternative, but one of the reasons this is so intriguing to me is that I have an OTA HD receiver that I'm not even using because of the two-tuner Comcast HD-DVR. I watch a lot of HiDef sports and my Motorola 6412 HD-DVR often doesn't have room to record everything I want to catch, so I think I could actually make use of this HDTV recorder. The only problem is I wasn't really planning to put HiDef in the bedroom I'm planning the HDD DVD recorder for. Silly? Or maybe reasonable? [ edit out ]

[tluxon]

I wonder if I really need an expensive VCR with "TBC, Frame memory, and digital filtering circuitry".

Up in a closet I have what is called The Play-Right by Vidicraft. Many years ago I used it a couple times when dubbing movies with macrovision and it worked perfectly. The box describes it as:

* Eliminate color flashing, loss of color, picture rolls, streaking and jittering during playback of copy-protected movies.
* Clears up scrambled pictures caused by copy-protected videotapes.
...

In addition to that I have a "Super Video Processor", subtitled "Professional Taping Features Add Exciting Versatility to Your A/V System". I got it at Radio Shack (Archer, Cat. No. 15-1276). It's description reads,

Dramatically enriches video detail, color and brightness. Helps you make better copies of personal tapes, gives you superior camcorder-to-VCR copies and lets you clean up poor tapes for viewing. Variable enhancer preserves picture details normally lost during dubbing, and an efficient video noise reducer helps reduce picture graininess...

Any idea if these two things together make getting a VCR with special playback features redundant?

Thank you!

Tim

[MeekloBraca]

I bought a JVC 7600 and in my opinion its a piece of crap.

Without the TBC on the screen flutters and goes nuts on a tape that plays perfectly in any other VCR. The video stabilizer does nothing youd notice. When plugged into my dvd recorder theres a lot of distortion in svideo setting where RCA setting is clean. Overall its just a big pile piece of metal that cost way too much.

[lordsmurf]

Sounds like you got a bad unit.

[mattso]

In addition to that I have a "Super Video Processor", subtitled "Professional Taping Features Add Exciting Versatility to Your A/V System". I got it at Radio Shack (Archer, Cat. No. 15-1276). It's description reads,

Dramatically enriches video detail, color and brightness. Helps you make better copies of personal tapes, gives you superior camcorder-to-VCR copies and lets you clean up poor tapes for viewing. Variable enhancer preserves picture details normally lost during dubbing, and an efficient video noise reducer helps reduce picture graininess...

Hi there, I'm wondering Tim if you've had a chance to test this unit out? I'm kind of curious how well the "Enhancer" and "VNR" knobs work! Thanks.

[tluxon]

In addition to that I have a "Super Video Processor", subtitled "Professional Taping Features Add Exciting Versatility to Your A/V System". I got it at Radio Shack (Archer, Cat. No. 15-1276). It's description reads,

Dramatically enriches video detail, color and brightness. Helps you make better copies of personal tapes, gives you superior camcorder-to-VCR copies and lets you clean up poor tapes for viewing. Variable enhancer preserves picture details normally lost during dubbing, and an efficient video noise reducer helps reduce picture graininess...

Hi there, I'm wondering Tim if you've had a chance to test this unit out? I'm kind of curious how well the "Enhancer" and "VNR" knobs work! Thanks.

Before we got HDTV early in 2001 and went completely digital with 3 ReplayTVs, I had the aforementioned video processor in my setup and used it for countless insert edits between VCRs.

The sliding split screen comparitor was invaluable in being able to pinpoint precise locations in the frame to place the split. This allowed me to see exactly how the noise reduction and other enhancing adjustments affected important features like someone's eyes or hair or being able to match colors with what I knew they were supposed to be. The noise reduction (VNR) and enhancement knobs are infintely variable and thus could be used in any combination desired. Combining all the adjustments just right, precisely feathered filtering, sharpening, and color results are attainable.

I primarily took it out of the loop when I left the tape world for the digital media world and put everything in a new cabinet. However, now that I'm revisiting tapes in the interest of converting them to digital media, I think I'll want to put this video processor back into use unless I get something else that includes most of the same functionality (whatever options there might be?).

If you're considering something like this Super Video Processor, what else are you considering in a similar vein?

Thanks!

Tim

[MeekloBraca]

"Sounds like you got a bad unit."


Yeah it certainly sounds like it. Is there anywhere I can go to get it checked out?

[MeekloBraca]

Well I was probably a little harsher on it than I should have, I did some tests by playing the tape on both vcr's connected up and pausing it everytime i switched so i could see a comparison, the SVHS VCR isnt considerably better but it is better, it took away some of the grainy fuzz on the screen and made it a bit clearer, coupled that with my setting the tape on Sharp setting made for a pretty decent picture.

But i still have the background distortion with svideo setting, when i put my dvd player onto svideo mode and theres nothing but a blue screen there seems to be something there, but on RCA setting its clear blue. What could cause this, or is this normal?

[MeekloBraca]

I take it back, I hate this thing. The tracking on it sucks ass.

[davideck]

My 7600 does a good job of tracking. Maybe the Dynamic Drum in your unit is not working. Can you search at 7X in SP without any noise bars?

Maybe the tape is not guiding properly. Could it just need a good cleaning?

[MeekloBraca]

Perhaps. What is a noise bar? How can I give it a good cleaning? I did buy the thing off ebay so perhaps thats it, but then again I did run through my tape cleaning thing it didnt help.

It seems with this thing that unless the TBC and all the filters are on the picture is just pure garbage, where as in a cheap Panasonic I have at work it plays as well as anything.

Also perhaps you can answer this for me since you also have this model. In RCA mode on the blue screen the picture is pure blue, in Svideo mode on a blue screen theres distortion of vertical and horizontal lines, is that normal? If not how do i fix it?

Thanks!

[davideck]

By noise bars, I was referring to the narrow horizontal bands that usually appear in high speed search as the video heads cross from one track to another. If the Dynamic Drum is working, then it will adjust the scanner tilt at any search speed (in SP) so that the heads do not cross track, thereby eliminating the noise bars.

Here is some VCR cleaning info;
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=288808

While your VCR is open you should let it load and play a tape to see if the tape slides smoothly along the guides and rotating drum.

My blue screen looks fine on both Composite (RCA) and S-Video outputs fed directly to a monitor. Is that how you are viewing them?

[MeekloBraca]

Im not veiwing it on a monitor, im on a tv, the VCR is being fed into a Lite On 5005 DVD Recorder. It doesnt really show up when a tape is running although I think its there. But still the picture is marginally better in Svideo than RCA, not by much mind you, but its there. Im kind of disapointed in that, I was expecting a better picture out of Svideo.

[MeekloBraca]

In EP mode in fast forward mode there are 5 or 6 horizontal bars. Were you speaking strickly in SP mode?

In SP Mode in fast forward at 7x speed there are horizontal lines briefly then they go away within 1 or 2 seconds.

[davideck]

In EP mode in fast forward mode there are 5 or 6 horizontal bars.

Yes, the noise bars are present in EP fast forward.

In SP Mode in fast forward at 7x speed there are horizontal lines briefly then they go away within 1 or 2 seconds.

This sounds normal. I suspect that your Dynamic Drum is working fine.

[MeekloBraca]

ok so with that being settled then, what do you believe is wrong with my VCR to make it act all stupid? Its a 7600 so I imagine it has some age to it.

[davideck]

If a good cleaning doesn't help, then I'm not sure. There have been times when I have had to clean the video heads several times to completely restore the picture quality.

I don't think that the menu blue screen anomalies are anything to worry about. I have noticed similar disturbances with my 7600 menu when viewing it through another device. Normal video always looks fine.

[MeekloBraca]

Yeah, when a tape is playing it looks fine, I certainly cant tell any disturbance, where it is noticeable is when im watching cable tv, watching it through RCA mode is much better than Svideo mode. And it cant be the cable connection either because it has the distortion when no cable is plugged into the device.

Personally im concerned about ripping open my VCR and attempting to clean it, it seems like a process that can be iffy to wether the machine survives the cleaning or not.

I think it would be good to note that the VCR at my work that plays the crappiest of tapes very very very well is a Panasonic 4421 omnivision VCR. Tapes that have problems in many VCRs especially my 7600 play exceptionally well in the Panasonic. There are very very few tracking issues with the exception of the slight snowy picture at the top of the screen on occasion. But the tapes that play poorly on other vcrs are old.

ANother question regarding cleaning, is a cotton swab nessecary or can an alcohol wet napkin do the job?