help with Ratio aspect and Scale Display

[krakaur]

Problems with scales and ratio aspects.

Hi:

Hope you can help me.

My nephew got a video from a friend in his birthday. It has an anime of four hours. It has good quality, but the audio is in Japanese and the subtitles are embedded in the video. The DVD plays perfectly fine in my PC, but it when I try the DVD player (a sungale 2026) the subtitles appear cropped at half by the bottom screen and cannot be read. Since nobody here speaks Japanese the movie is unusable. My 10 year old nephew asks me for help and I promise him to “fix” the video.

I tried several issues which solved similar problems in the past. I re burned with Nero burning Rom with the hope that the program rescale the video automatically. Also with DVD shrink. DVD shrink re encode the video but the final result remains the same.

My nephew looked me like a fallen hero and I promise him that even if it could take a little more time I would fix it. Since he has no PC in his home and I am quite reluctant to lend him my PC after a deep breath and I started reading guides about rescaling.

I got ifoedit, and a guide to change the values. No prior knowledge to rescaling (learned a lot on that this past weekend)

A deeper analysis of the file tells me the following:

The video in question is mpeg-1 not mpeg 2 as usual in DVD. Its in NTSC format which is complaint with both my DVD and the TV. It says that has 720x480 but somehow I believe the true value of the raw video is 720x486 since it would explain the behaviour of the display. (Both ifoedit and virtualdub-mpeg2 restate that the right value is 720x480 which puzzles me) the complete line of ifoedit reads

Title set (movie) attributes:
Video: mpeg-1 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (not specified perm. display)

I thought it will be as simpler as double clicking and changing the “static values” to automatic pan & scan , and automatic letter box would do it but an analysis of burned the file states that the values has been changed without any positive result.

Then I got another video with has the same problem but where fixed when I burned it with DVD shrink. I compare an analysis with virtual dub of both videos and to my dismay I find that both had the same display size (720x480), the same format NTSC, the same ratio (4:3), and the same value of SAR (sar stands for source aspect ratio?) of 12(1.095)

So both are basically equal but one function the other not. ¿What to change?
I have been avoiding complete re encoding (I.E. complete dvd to avi and then back to m2v and wav with tmpegnc and to DVD with ifoedit authoring) for 3 reasons:

A) the loss of quality. Since is a 4 hour anime it has already a low bit rate. The resulting avi is quite big, and re encoding it to DVD stands the bit rate below the standard 2000.

B) I have no experience with DVD ripping.

C) Personal pride, I was so sure it can be done without reenconding after reading the ifoedit tips used to change from pal to NTSC that I bet with my roommate that I can be done.

But now I am at loss. Any help?

Here is the complete ifo analysis of ifoedit.

F:\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.IFO

VMG Overview:
Video Manager Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-1 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (pan-scan & letterboxed)
Number of Title Play Maps: 1(VMG_PTT_SRPT)
Title1: VTS_01_*, TTN_1 (Angles: 1) (Chapters: 14) (Start Sector 8)
Number of Video Title Sets on this DVD: 1(VMG_VTS_ATRT)
Title Set 1:
VTS_1 Video: MPEG-1 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (not specified perm.display)
VTS_1 Audio 1:Not Specified (Mpeg-1 ) 2ch 48Kbps 16bps

First play PGCPrograms: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu Language Units: 1
Language Menu Unit 1: []
Language Menu Unit 1: []
Menu 1: [Title-Menu](entry PGC) (Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 2: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 3: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 4: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 5: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 6: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 7: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)

F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
VTS overview:

Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (not specified perm.display)
Audio 1:Not Specified (Linear PCM) 2ch 48Kbps 16bps
SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle )

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-1 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (not specified perm.display)
Audio 1:Not Specified (Mpeg-1 ) 2ch 48Kbps 16bps (ID: 0xc0)

PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [04:04:46.25 / 30 fps] (Programs: 14) (Cells: 15) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:01:30.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:01:30.01] [Frames: 2701] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.28 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:21:39.29] [Frames: 38999] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id: 3/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.07 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:41:49.06] [Frames: 75276] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 4/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.11 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:01:58.17] [Frames: 111557] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 05] [V/C Id: 5/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.10 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:22:07.27] [Frames: 147837] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] [V/C Id: 6/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:42:17.11] [Frames: 184121] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 7/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:03:59.18 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:46:16.29] [Frames: 191309] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Cell 08] [V/C Id: 7/ 2] : time: 00:16:07.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:02:24.13] [Frames: 220333] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 09] [V/C Id: 8/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:08.28 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:22:33.11] [Frames: 256601] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 9/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:42:42.13] [Frames: 292873] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 11] [V/C Id: 10/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:08.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 03:02:50.27] [Frames: 329127] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 12] [V/C Id: 11/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:09.23 / 30 fps [Pos: 03:23:00.20] [Frames: 365420] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 12] [Pg 12] [Cell 13] [V/C Id: 12/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:08.23 / 30 fps [Pos: 03:43:09.13] [Frames: 401683] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 13] [Pg 13] [Cell 14] [V/C Id: 13/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:20:08.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 04:03:17.29] [Frames: 437939] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 14] [Pg 14] [Cell 15] [V/C Id: 14/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:01:28.26 / 30 fps [Pos: 04:04:46.25] [Frames: 440605] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]

Menu Language Units: 1
Language Menu Unit 1: []

Language Menu Unit 1: []
Menu 1: [Root-Menu] (entry PGC) (Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 2: [entry only](Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
Menu 3: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 4: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 5: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 6: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 7: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 8: [entry only](Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 2)
Menu 9: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 10: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 11: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 12: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 13: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 14: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 15: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 16: [entry only](Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 3)
Menu 17: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 18: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 19: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 20: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 21: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 22: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 23: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 24: [entry only](Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 4)
Menu 25: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 26: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 27: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 28: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 29: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 30: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 31: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 32: [entry only](Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 5)
Menu 33: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 34: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 35: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 36: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 37: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
Menu 38: [entry only](Programs: 0) (Cells: 0)
And also here is the data that Virtualdub-mpeg2 gave me

Frame size, fps 720x480, 29.970 fps
Aspect ratio information SAR= 12(1.095) 4:3 NTSC


Btw, DVD Rebuilder v0.96 says that “Illegal Video GOP Size. Possible Encrypted Source. Aborting.”
The files are NOT encrypted. They play perfectly fine with the powerdvd, from the Hard drive.
Also Power DVD, when “shown Information” says Video: MPEG-2 1.50 MBPS audio Mpeg 2.0 128kbps. So its mpeg-1 or mpeg-2 ??? And that is playing the main file a chapter in the middle.

Also Gspot gave me confusing data

In the “Container” says
MPEG-2 Program Stream << { 1 vid, 1 aud, 1 other }
Sys Bitrate: 10080 kb/s VBR

But in the Video
Says
Codec: Mpeg1_Payload (ok, is Mpeg-1 or Mpeg-2?)
Name: MPEG-1

Here is the interesting part:

Frame (w,x) 720x480
FAR 1.5 (what far stands for?)
PAR 1.422
DAR 2.133 (32:15)

Another piece of the puzzle.
It was “encoded by TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress Trial Version Version. 3.1.3.70”


It renders perfectly fine, in gspot it renders at what seems to me like 16:9. in a small windows and it seems very well.

Here is the information Mpeg & Avi info tells

Nombre VTS_01_1.vob
Duración 00:03:42
Fecha Modificación 18/12/2005 23:06:44
Tamaño Total 1023.97 MB [37785.60 Kbps] [276.75 MBpm]
Tamaño Vídeo/Audio 1020.50 MB | 3.47 MB [100-0%] [40.6MB - 11.7 :1]
Tipo Mpeg

[Vídeo]
Códec / Info MPEG-1 -> XVCD VBR
Resolución 720 x 480 -> 1.77 [16:9 PAL]
BitRate Vídeo [104857] 37660 Kbps -> [275.83 MBpm]
C.Pixel/Color 3.723 bpp / -
Fps/Sistema 29.97 fps / NTSC

[Audio 1]
Códec / Info MPEG-1 -> MP2 [MPEG-1 Layer II]
BitRate Audio 128 Kbps -> [0.94 MBpm]
Modo/Frecuencia/Bits Stereo / 48000Hz / 16bits

[MetaDatos]
Software TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress Trial Version Version. 3.1.3.70

[MPEG]
¿Cumple el Estándar? ¡No!
Vídeo.Resolución 720x480 -> 352x240 [VCD NTSC], 352x288[VCD PAL], ..
Vídeo.BitRate Vídeo 37660Kbps -> 1150Kbps
Vídeo.VBR Sí -> No
Audio(1).Frecuencia 48000Hz -> 44100Hz


Ok, at this point, I got several conclusions.
Correct me if aim wrong

This is one of those mixes VCD/DVD, that stores video stream in Mpeg-1, but seems mpeg-2 for the high bitrate, and for the container, and the file format, (VOBs) I have no experience with those mixes. But certainly their not as easy to fix as others videos. The object of this mixes, according to what I have been reading is to store a huge amount of video Length without loosing quality a trick that is easier done in animation than in actual films.

So there should be 2 ways of fixing it. Changing the ration whit something like ifoedit. But for mpeg-1. or reencoding the whole video (tmpegenc plus. Accept the VOB files easily). But the output size is enormous no matter what I do. Even if I try to match the values that I got above. Also the lack of knowledge of encoding doesn’t help either.

[thecoalman]

This appears to be a common problem with these anime videos. Your problem is overscan, about 5% of a video signal is not viewable on a regular TV. When they put the subtitles in it they never allowed for this area.

You need to add borders or frame it if you prefer to compensate for the overscan area.

[krakaur]

so whats the procedure for that?
I gues I have to reencode the whole video...
is there a program that just add the borders???
the main problem with reencoding is that the ouput size get enourmous. each m2v came out like 1.8 GB. and also no idea of how to encode with this weird settings

[krakaur]

ok. i checked about overscan, read varius post regarding it find Fit2cd. and got it. make the avisynth script. now how do i capture it in a way that i do not change the final size?

[guns1inger]

The final file size comes down to bitrate. Use a bitrate calculator, add up the total runtime for the disk, and get the correct numbers for re-encoding.

[krakaur]

yes, but even if i set the bitrate to the minimun the final file would be like 1.8 GB. and that a m2v. if i tried encoding mpeg1, it wont play in the dvd

[manono]

Bitrate directly correlates with file size. You adjust the bitrate, you also adjust the file size. What you said above is wrong.

[guns1inger]

You have 4.38GBs to play with, what is the problem with 1.8GB ?

If this came off a DVD in the first place, then find the original bitrate and use that either as your bitrate (CBR) or as your average (for VBR) and encode.

[manono]

Hi-

You have 4.38GBs to play with, what is the problem with 1.8GB ?

I think he's talking about just one of the episodes in this 4 hour long DVD. I could be wrong though. That first post was so long that it doesn't make me want to go back and wade through it again.

What is this, someone's homemade DVD from a bunch of fansubbed AVIs? Who puts 4 hours on a single DVD5, sticks the subs down too low to be read, and burns them into the DVD?

A) the loss of quality. Since is a 4 hour anime it has already a low bit rate. The resulting avi is quite big, and re encoding it to DVD stands the bit rate below the standard 2000.

There's no need to create an intermediate AVI. In fact, it would be foolish to do so.

B) I have no experience with DVD ripping.

Time to learn. Don't want to look bad to your nephew.

C) Personal pride, I was so sure it can be done without reenconding after reading the ifoedit tips used to change from pal to NTSC that I bet with my roommate that I can be done.

You lose. Pay up. If you want to add a black bar below so you can see the subs, of course it has to be reencoded.