Should I trade my Panasonic DMRES20S for a JVC DR-M70

[EazyDuzit]

Greetings, I'm a new member but I've used this site for some time and could not believe the wealth of info available and all the contributions made on the forums.

I recently purchased a Panasonic DMRES20S and am considering exchanging it for a JVC DR-M70 for the following reasons:

-Unattractive menus.
-Lack of technical specifications in the manual. (12-bit or 10-bit DIGA chip?)
-The S-Video out stopped working.
-Had it freeze on me once, only had to unplug it.
-IRE bug still present in the newer panasonic models (image quality is good but it's slightly washed out and lighter than the source.)
-Annoying RF and fan patterns when recording.

Aside from that, I found the unit to be very reliable and have not had any coasters, was able to easily edit all the .VOB's it produced with AC3 in sync, and also liked how easy it was to use.

I understand no unit is perfect, so my main objective is to exchange this unit for one that has correct black level settings, is reliable, and can produce VOB's that can be easily edited without read errors, slow access speed, or lame protection schemes.

My only concern for the JVC unit is this infamous loading error and the build quality of JVC products in general, but I can't seem to find much info or user input about the JVC DR-M70 anywhere.

All from Futureshop by the way!

If anyone can offer any suggestions, I'd be most thankful!

[lordsmurf]

Loading is not an issue on models after the DR-M10 or the HDD version M20/M30 (which was rare compared to the 10). In all cases, the 10 was maybe 5-10% of all units at most, and JVC has probably fixed most of those at this time, either for customers, or returns now sold as refurbs.

Go get that JVC, you won't be sorry.

[jimsmith]

But don't forget that the picture, produced by JVS is softer then the one produced by Panasonic.

[lordsmurf]

But don't forget that the picture, produced by JVS is softer then the one produced by Panasonic.

Not really.

[tluxon]

Loading is not an issue on models after the DR-M10 or the HDD version M20/M30 (which was rare compared to the 10). In all cases, the 10 was maybe 5-10% of all units at most, and JVC has probably fixed most of those at this time, either for customers, or returns now sold as refurbs.

Go get that JVC, you won't be sorry.

Would that go for the JVC DR-MX1S (HDD-DVD recorder/ VCR combo unit) as well? I saw a significant number of complaints of the loading error on this model after several weeks of use, but I haven't seen any reviews at all covering the last few months. How can we be certain JVC was able to solve the problem?

Tim

[lordsmurf]

Most complaints about loading these days on newer models are premature. People plug it in, see LOADING on the screen, and then piss their pants and run online to complain.

What they fail to realize is the unit shows LOADING anytime it's freshly plugged in, or after power is restored from an outage. It'll last a minute or two maybe, at most.

It also happens when you feed it garbage blank media, PRINCO's and fake TY's and junk.

The original loading problem was related to the power supply in a small amount of units. In a minority of those cases, the motherboard was damaged as a result of the machine being used with the errors. Usually the fix was new resistors. In some cases, they had to trash several other damaged components that were tainted by the original problem. But it always traced back to the main issue. New models do not use the same problematic parts as they did on the old ones. Towards the end of the DR-M10 run, it's believed that had already changed, as most problem models were rather early on, within the first 5-6 months in a line that last maybe 10-12 months.

[Captain Satellite]

Concerning the IRE 'bug' which my DMR-HS2 has but my EH80 doesn't, have you tried setting as below? Not sure if this would apply to your recorder.

1. Go to SETUP - VIDEO - Black Level Control:
- Input level - make it "Darker".
- Composite & SVideo Output Level - make it "Lighter".
- Component Video Output Level - make it "Normal".
This will assure correct black level setting on your recorder (no brighter or darker recorded images compare to the originals).

[EazyDuzit]

Well I went ahead and traded the unit. I must say I may have made a mistake but will say that these are my findings and by no means am trying to contribute to the JVC vs. Panasonic war. My finding with the JVC is that there is slightly more macroblocking in the SP mode compared to the ES20. The image also appeared slightly less detailed on the M70 when comparing the same tape recorded from the ES20, but to my satisfaction the black levels on the JVC were correct. My findings anyways.

However, one major set back with the M70 is this annoying black bar that constantly passes over the image, and is very noticable over dark scenes. Possibly some electrical interference from the fan or the RF tuner, but seemed less noticable on the ES20. Very annoying.

Captain, I've tried all Black Level Settings recommended on this board for the Panasonic units in general, but still found the image slightly washed out compared to the original tape. I guess the ES20 would of worked better with some sort of intermediate device that would allow me to change the black levels. I'll have to look into those.

Does anyone know of any M70 firmware hacks? I had mentioned unattractive menus, but find the menu system is pretty useless to me as I only use these DVD recorders to record VHS tapes and do not need a menu. I cannot however find a way to disable the menu from always showing first on the JVC finalized DVDs, and have volumes of tapes to put on DVD for myself and others.

If I can I'll try and obtain a ES10, or otherwise obtain the ES20 and some sort of intermediate device.

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

. My finding with the JVC is that there is slightly more macroblocking in the SP mode compared to the ES20.

There is not ANY macroblocking in a JVC, especially at SP mode. In fact, not even a Panasonic has blocks at SP, unless you feed it really trashy source. The Panasonic WILL however show splothciness sometimes. The Panasonic encoder is inferior, but there should not be any blocks in SP mode, as most machines are optimized at this resolution/bitrate.

JVC historically auto-plays the first title, it does not first show the menu. Look for a JVC DR-M100S unit.

[trhouse]

Does this black bar start at the bottom of the screen and scrolls up? If yes, it is likely power line interference which could be internal but could also be caused by proximity to line related items in other products like their power supplies.

[EazyDuzit]

The bar moves horizontally across the screen. usually taking about 5 seconds to completely pass over the image and then repeating itself over. Would using a power condition help? I've also tried using different outlets around the house, but to no avail.

Perhaps the trouble I'm having with the SLIGHT degree of macroblocking is related to scenes that have a lot of motion in them.

I'll look into the ES10 and the M100S.

[spiritgumm]

The black level INPUT for Panny ES20 has only two settings: Lighter or Darker. There is no NORMAL input. I compared recording in both settings with the original vhs and they were faintly but detectably lighter or darker. I suppose you could "correct" this alteration with the OUTPUT settings during playback on the Panny, but you shouldn't need to, and can't on other dvd players.
I also had some faint white flashing when recording tapes from my Panny vcr (which didn't happen when I used a Toshiba dvd recorder) so I returned the Panny ES20. I'd like to try a JVC but most stores don't sell the regular model.

[jimsmith]

But don't forget that the picture, produced by JVS is softer then the one produced by Panasonic.

Not really.

LOL