Blu-ray Disc considered “The New Higher Definition Format”

[raffie]

http://news.designtechnica.com/featured_article35.html

Mr. Parsons noted, “There’s no format war looming because it’s not Blu-ray vs. HD DVD.”
Apparently, 90 percent of the CE industry and seven movie studios now back Blu-ray Disc. And most of the IT industry (except Microsoft) also supports Blu-ray Disc.
Mr. Parsons said, “It’s simply Blu-ray versus standard definition DVD… Currently, DVD has 50,000 titles presently available, and both formats will co-exist for several years to come with new BD players supporting both formats. BD players make the perfect complement to new HDTVs that are being purchased by consumers.”

A must read for all those people spouting 'format war' and 'Beta vs VHS all over again!!1!!'

I well personally buy every1 who reads this a beer if Blu-ray isnt a mainstream product within 2 years.

[GullyFoyle]

Amazing this isn't mentioned.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/24/maxell_holo_storage/

Maxell to offer 300GB holographic discs 'late 2006'

The format is dubbed HVD - Holographic Versatile Disc - and Optware is already pushing a 200GB HVD-RW disc type through the HVD Alliance, an organisation supported by Optware, Fuji Photo and half-a-dozen or so Japanese chemicals companies.

http://news.com.com/Maxell+focuses+on+holographic+storage/2100-1015_3-5973868.html

With a single holographic removable drive, or disk, able to store 1.6 million high-resolution color photos or more than 240 hours of TV broadcast, holographic storage is starting to draw the attention of many in the IT industry.

"Holographic media makes it possible for millions of pages of information and high-definition images to be held on one small, relatively inexpensive disk," said Steven Pofcher, senior marketing manager at Maxell.

"Imagine having a person's entire medical history, complete with MRI images, or storing a broadcast network's entire HD library on a single disk," Pofcher said. "These are both possible with holographic technology, which has such large capacity that approximately half a million 300-page books can be stored on a single disk."

Holographic recording technology uses intersecting signal and reference laser beams to store data in a number of 3D holographic images.

According to Maxell, one 13-centimeter optical disk can store up to 150 million pages--more than 63 times the capacity of a DVD.
In other news:

Earlier this month, Turner Entertainment's vice president of broadcast technology, Ron Tarasoff, said his company is planning to sell holographic disks that will retail for $100 and which, in five years, will have a capacity of 1.6 terabytes each.

oops I forgot about that Chinese format.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9618578/

SHANGHAI, China - For the second time in two years, China has announced plans to develop its own next-generation DVD standard to break the monopoly of foreign companies and avoid paying heavy licensing fees.

If successful, the move could add a new wrinkle to the battle between HD DVD and the competing Blu-ray Disc formats over which will become the dominant new DVD standard.

The official Xinhua News Agency said the new standard will be based on but incompatible with HD DVD, which is being promoted by Toshiba Corp. and Universal Studios, as well as Intel Corp. and Microsoft Corp., the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers.
The Chinese standard, not expected to reach markets until at least 2008, would provide higher definition, better sound and better anti-piracy measures, Xinhua quoted Lu Da, deputy director of the government-affiliated National Disc Engineering Center, as saying earlier this week.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I still stand by my previous remarks on this issue: Blu-Ray will dominate because of the PS3.

The popularity of DVD's exploded when the PS2 was released because it offered out-of-the-box DVD playback at a lower price than stand-alone DVD players (ESPECIALLY in markets like Japan).
Sony is doing the same thing with PS3 and Blu-Ray.

PS3 will offer out-of-the-box Blu-Ray playback for $300.00 - $400.00 (price point on PS3 is still TBD), in addition to being the game machine that everybody wants.

[Nelson37]

OK, I am curious. Why would any thinking, reasoning person consider that a series of remarks from a promotional association would in any way indicate true factual information? This is Advertising, folks. That is essentially paid lying.

It Does Not Matter what some industry group says.

It Does Not Matter which format is, or is not, technically superior.

It Does Not Matter what the Chinese government intends to do in its next five-year plan.

ONE THING, and One Thing Only, will decide this issue - What the Consumer, wherever he or she may be, decides to pony up and buy. Since this has not happened yet, any predictions may as well include next month's weather forecast.

The inclusion of Blue-Ray in the PS3 would seem a powerful inducement, but then, I haven't seen one yet, have you? And perhaps there is a Blue-Ray Jon, or an HD-DVD Jon, somewhere in the backround to screw the pooch for studio support of one format or another.

And just maybe I can get my Super Whizzo 3000 holographic hyperspace cube storage system running, and get some investors, and some booth babes, and some lawyers, and paid liars, and.....

[GullyFoyle]

Maybe for a while. I see Xbox 360 sales are weak in Japan.
I would consider the Chinese format as a serious threat. They created their own format so as not to have to pay fees on existing technologies. Thus making them even more inexpensive.
Which would make an interesting prospect for places like India.
And I would not rule out the Holographic format. 1080p will start coming into it's own then those next generations that double or quadruple the resolution.

[raffie]

I still stand by my previous remarks on this issue: Blu-Ray will dominate because of the PS3.

You are right, but this is only 1 of the reasons why. Another one is that HD-DVD has no advantages to any other format except for name recognizeability (and whatever happened to SACD).

In response to the holographic discs; those arent really formats are they, they're just DISCS, and may possibly even adopt the Blu-ray standard in the future - or just be used for data storage(i know I could use 200-300GB discs).

[ROF]

HD DVD has been delayed again.

HD DVD is almost a dead horse before it leaves the starting gate. It will be relegated to the obscurity of SACD IMO. Blu-Ray will dominate because of it's marketability. The line of backers increases even if those corporations sometimes complain about the way it's being implemented. The PS3 will dominate the XBox360 because Microsoft chose to use an old DVD drive that tends to overheat and lock up the systems. They didn't even consider using next gen technology in their next gen system. The PS3 will utilize the Blu-ray discs which means gamers will be one of the first people to experience the technology in their mass market. Next will be the movie studios of which most back Blu-ray or are sitting on the fence between BD and HD. Given all these factors I think Blu-ray has a real advantage plus blu-ray offers a much better and stronger content protection system. Sure nothing is 100% secure but thats just another thing blu-ray has going for it.

[Snakebyte1]

There is a bit of a difference between now and back when DVD took off. Back then VHS was the standard medium for movies, and had been around for some time, and people were ready for a next generation type product. But Even then, VHS hung on and on.

But the current DVD has not been popular for that long really, compared to VHS. Its not a "tired" product that the average Joe consumer thinks is ready to be replaced. Consumers get irked by the constant built-in obsolescence of products these days. If DVD is only going to last so long, then Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD) will last for an even shorter time, so why bother? And people aren't wanting to have a 3rd device in their home (VCR,DVD and Blu Ray). Even if they do make dual-format Blu Ray many won't want to buy them when they a current DVD player.

I find alot of this talk about HD is just geared to work people into a frenzy in order to sell them something (much like the Year 2000 marketing blitz - can you say WindowsME). For the mass market, sometimes "Good Enough is good enough"

[GullyFoyle]

In response to the holographic discs; those arent really formats are they, they're just DISCS, and may possibly even adopt the Blu-ray standard in the future - or just be used for data storage(i know I could use 200-300GB discs).

Um no.
That would be a format.
Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) is a format.
I'm assuming you mean format as the method of recording and playing.
http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,10801,105682,00.html

Optware's technology works by shining a green laser through the disk and then recording data in the polymer resin. A shiny surface on the bottom of the disk -- made of the same material a compact disc or DVD has on its surface -- then reflects that data back up to the laser to be read

Optware also plans to release a holographic disk product for streaming video that's targeted at the film and broadcast industries, and a consumer disk product that is about the size of a credit card with 30GB of capacity.

You may wish to check this out
http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=11193&section=feature&email=

Blu-ray/HD DVD Could Become Irrelevant as HVD Nears
When it comes to the format war, all the talk has been about Blu-ray and HD DVD, but another more advanced technology could actually replace both before they even really have a chance to make their respective marks. Holographic disks can store a ton of data and can read and write data faster as well...

While the Sony-led Blu-ray camp and the Toshiba-led HD DVD group battle it out to determine which format will become the successor to traditional DVD, another format is being developed that could quickly make both HD DVD and Blu-ray seem obsolete.

Incredible storage capacity
Called Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD), this emerging technology has been in the works (at least conceptually) for about 20 years. It wasn't until the beginning of the 21st century that real advances were made, however. Holographic disk storage allows for much higher density than DVDs by storing data as light patterns throughout the volume of the polymer disc, or three dimensions. HVD can apparently store up to 60 times the data of a regular DVD and it can read and write data 10 times faster as well.

The two major players in this emerging holographic storage field are InPhase Technologies (an American company) and Japanese firm Optware Corp. Optware recently opened a U.S. branch and intends to launch 200GB HVD drives by the end of 2006; by 2008, the company is aiming to hit the 1TB mark. InPhase also plans on shipping its own 200GB drives by the end of next year. The company has partnered with Hitachi Maxell Ltd. to market the new technology.

[ "With Blu-ray and HD DVD not even on the market yet... it's certainly possible that the real format leap won't truly come until holographic technology is ushered in." ]


According to InPhase, its Tapestry holographic system can store more than 26 hours of broadcast-quality high-definition video on a single 300GB disk, recorded at a 160 megabit per second (Mb/s) data rate. HVD also can hold data for over 50 years without any sign of deterioration, which when combined with its massive capacity makes it an ideal solution for television networks to store all their video.
Attracting networks
In fact, Turner Entertainment, a subsidiary of Turner Broadcasting System, has already turned to holographic tech, making it the first television network to air content originating on holographic storage. Turner has more than 200,000 movies as well as thousands of commercials stored on digital tape. As the library grows, retrieval time and maintaining the tapes becomes costly, especially as more HD content is adopted.

"The holographic disk promises to retail for $100, and by 2010, it will have capacity of 1.6TB each. That's pretty inexpensive," Ron Tarasoff, vice president of broadcast technology and engineering at Turner Entertainment told Computerworld.com. "Even this first version can store 300GB per disk, and it has 160MB/sec. data throughput rates. That's burning. Then combine it with random access, and it's the best of all worlds."

Consumer market next
Both InPhase and Optware are currently targeting the market from an archival perspective—for example, it would be entirely possible to store whole movie libraries on just one disk. However, for the consumer market the companies also are working on developing disks that would be less than half the physical size of DVDs but could hold around 30GB.

With Blu-ray and HD DVD not even on the market yet and HVD fast closing in, it's certainly possible that the real format leap won't truly come until holographic technology is ushered in. Keep in mind that most consumers have only fully embraced DVD movies in the last 2-3 years and will likely be slow to adopt either Blu-ray or HD DVD, just as they were slow to move away from VHS.

And if video game developers like the idea of Blu-ray in the PlayStation 3, just imagine how pleased they'd be with the vast storage and increased read times of HVD in the generation of consoles following PS3. For now, though, all we can do is wait and see how all these formats work themselves out.

[Snakebyte1]

Quote:
Optware's technology works by shining a green laser through the disk...


DVD gives way to Blu-Ray which gives way to GREEN now!!! We'll have a rainbow of devices on our shlves just to watch a crappy movie

I think I'll wait for Black-ray or Death ray.....

[lordsmurf]

I well personally buy every1 who reads this a beer if Blu-ray isnt a mainstream product within 2 years.

You can help me import some of that delicious Belgian beer then. Because the next generation prodcut to replace DVD and dominate market will not exist for at least another 5-10 years at best. I would venture a blind guess that a 2nd variation of holograhic disc will be the true winner in a number of years from now, and carry a capacity so extreme that it seems ridiculous (much like DVD was at the time, back in 1995). Be on the lookout for the 5 TB optical disc.

In the meantime, I guess some of the techie nerds will enjoy their next generation Laserdisc or Super Beta, be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The rest of us won't pay any attention to that stuff, we have plenty of DVDs for the time being, just like we had plenty of VHS.

The only way these HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will ever matter is if they delay everything for another 5 or so years. Which could happen, but being only a measley numbers of GB's, and not TB's, I don't see that happening.

[Jester700]

I'm not so sure. There's a lot of IFS here. If fed broadcast law and plummeting prices make Hi Def TVs common, I can see one of the high def formats happening in 5 years. Assuming the hardware also plays DVDs. But it won't be in 2 years. And it won't supplant DVDs; I'd bet they'll cooexist until the next thing comes along.

[raffie]

In the meantime, I guess some of the techie nerds will enjoy their next generation Laserdisc or Super Beta, be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

nice try there :P

we have plenty of DVDs for the time being

And you'll put them to good use, when drinking that -indeed- delicious Belgian beer - I'm certain you'll import it even if its being proven I dont have to - they'll prevent those nasty circles on your furniture

[GullyFoyle]

I'm not so sure. There's a lot of IFS here. If fed broadcast law and plummeting prices make Hi Def TVs common, I can see one of the high def formats happening in 5 years. Assuming the hardware also plays DVDs. But it won't be in 2 years. And it won't supplant DVDs; I'd bet they'll cooexist until the next thing comes along.

First off HD tv's are not that expensive. A thirty two inch HD is fairly inexpensive at Walmart.
Second this will help
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/mostread/s_401695.html

No Couch Potato Left Behind Act

By George F. Will
Thursday, December 8, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Feeling, evidently, flush with (other people's) cash, the Senate has concocted a novel way to spend $3 billion: Create a new entitlement. The Senate has passed -- and so has the House, with differences -- an entitlement to digital television.

If this filigree on the welfare state becomes law, everyone who owns old analog television sets -- everyone from your Aunt Emma in her wee apartment to the millionaire in the neighborhood McMansion who has such sets in the maid's room and the guest house -- will get subsidies to pay for making those sets capable of receiving digital signals.

If you think America is suffering an entitlement glut, you may have just hurled the newspaper across the room. Pick it up and read on, because this story illustrates the timeless truth that no matter how deeply you distrust the government's judgment, you are too trusting. Here, as explained by James L. Gattuso of the Heritage Foundation, is the crisis du jour: The nation is making a slow transition from analog to digital television broadcasting.

Why is this a crisis? Because, although programming currently is broadcast in both modes, by April 2009 broadcasters must end analog transmissions and the government will have auctioned the analog frequencies for various telecommunications purposes. For the vast majority of Americans, April 2009 will mean absolutely nothing. Nationwide, 85 percent of all television households (and 63 percent of households below the poverty line) already have cable or satellite service.


What will become of households that do not? Leaving aside such eccentric alternative pastimes as conversation and reading, the digitally deprived could pursue happiness by buying a new television set, all of which will be digital-capable by March 2007. Today a digital-capable set with a flat-screen display can be purchased from -- liberals, please pardon the mention of your Great Satan -- Wal-Mart for less than $460. But compassionate conservatism has a government response to the crisis.

Remember, although it is difficult to do so, that Republicans control Congress. And today's up-to-date conservatism does not stand idly by expecting people to actually pursue happiness on their own. Hence the new entitlement from Congress to help all Americans acquire converter boxes to put on top of old analog sets, making the sets able to receive digital programming. All Americans -- rich and poor; it is uncompassionate to discriminate on the basis of money when dispersing money -- will be equally entitled to the help.

The $990 million House version of this entitlement -- call it "No Couch Potato Left Behind" -- is (relatively) parsimonious: Consumers would get vouchers worth only $40, and would be restricted to a measly two vouchers per household. The Senate's more spacious entitlement would pay for most of the cost -- $50 to $60 -- of the converter boxes. But there is Republican rigor in this: Consumers would be required to pay $10. That is the conservatism in compassionate conservatism.

Now, the hardhearted will, in their cheeseparing small-mindedness, ask: Given that the transition to digital has been under way for almost a decade, why should those who have adjusted be compelled to pay money to those who have chosen not to adjust? And conservatives who have not yet attended compassion re-education camps will ask: Why does the legislation make even homes with cable or digital services eligible for subsidies to pay for converter boxes for old analog sets -- which may be worth less than the government's cost for the boxes?

Gattuso says defenders of this entitlement argue that taxpayers will not be burdened by its costs because the government's sale of the analog frequencies will yield perhaps $10 billion. Think about that: Because the government may get $10 billion from one transaction, taxpayers are unburdened by government giving away $3 billion with another transaction.

Such denial that money is fungible fuels the welfare state's expansion. What oil is to Saudi Arabia -- a defining abundance -- cognitive dissonance is to America.

Americans currently are in a Founding Fathers literary festival. They are making best-sellers out of many biographies of the statesmen who formulated America's philosophy of individualism and self-reliance and who embodied that philosophy -- or thought they did -- in a constitutional architecture of limited government.

Yet Americans have such an entitlement mentality, they seem to think that every pleasure -- e.g., digital television -- should be a collective right, meaning a federally funded entitlement. Clearly, Americans' civic religion of reverence for the Founders is, like most religions, more avowed than constraining.

HD tvs are dropping in price every year.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_constraint=0&search_query=high+def...d&ics=20&ico=0
Philips 30PW9100D 30" Widescreen High Definition TV $678.00
Philips 51PP9100D/37 51" Widescreen High Definition Projection TV $1,198.00
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/search.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=ELEC&keyword=high...=searchresults

Samsung 30 in. CRT TV/HDTV with Built-in HD Tuner, SlimFit™ $899.99
Samsung 32 in. CRT TV/HDTV Monitor, DynaFlat™ $699.99
Prima Technologies 30 in. CRT TV/HDTV Monitor Now $499.99

Prima Technologies 27 in. CRT TV/HDTV Monitor $379.99

None of those prices are outrageous.

[edDV]

Digital tuners and HDTV are separate subjects. The gov't tuners won't make an old analog set HD capable. It will only allow viewing a downscaled letterboxed low res version of what is on the HD channel. SD channels can be broadcast as either 4:3 or 16:9. HD channels are always 16:9.

When analog is turned off, ATSC DTV stations will have less incentive to maintain 4:3 aspect SD service. They will be down to a 19Mb/s stream that can only handle one HD plus one SD subchannel or about 5-6 SD subchannels.

Assuming their primary service will move to the HD subchannel, will they waste the SD subchannel as a 4:3 version of the same programming or will they expand their audience with a second separate service? I think it will be the latter and those left with analog sets better ask the govenment for a magnifying glass to follow their letterboxed low res version of the primary HD channel.

Cable and DBS will have the same delima. Will they continue to offer 4:3 SD and 16:9 HD versions of the main networks or will they drop the 4:3 version in favor of more unique channels? I think the more unique channels option will win and remaining analog TV viewers will be left with fuzzy letterboxes.

[GullyFoyle]

Yes. I know that. But the idea will be to motivate people to buy newer televisions as well. Many if not most new tv's are either HD (includes tuner) or HD ready ( standalone tuner).
Obviously the two are interlinked. You want the better picture you need the better tv.
Once people see HD in a store or at a neighbors or via the kids gameplay at a friends house they then become yet more interested.
There is quite a bit of pressure to upgrade televisions from a number of sources. Everything from advertising to gaming promotes HD these days.

[edDV]

Yes. I know that. But the idea will be to motivate people to buy newer televisions as well. Many if not most new tv's are either HD (includes tuner) or HD ready ( standalone tuner).
Obviously the two are interlinked. You want the better picture you need the better tv.
Once people see HD in a store or at a neighbors or via the kids gameplay at a friends house they then become yet more interested.
There is quite a bit of pressure to upgrade televisions from a number of sources. Everything from advertising to gaming promotes HD these days.

Among the 10-15% using OTA analog TV (less in 2009), that still have an analog only tuner, a simple $49 set top tuner will allow tuning the DTV channels in SD and downconverted HD. The gov't should limit subsidizing these tuners and instead apply the bulk of the $3 billion against the debt.

TV stations and advertisers could organize distribution of DTV tuners to the needy and paying customers alike. It is in their interest to keep their viewers watching.

The government will waste 99% of what they touch.

[GullyFoyle]

Yes. I know that. But the idea will be to motivate people to buy newer televisions as well. Many if not most new tv's are either HD (includes tuner) or HD ready ( standalone tuner).
Obviously the two are interlinked. You want the better picture you need the better tv.
Once people see HD in a store or at a neighbors or via the kids gameplay at a friends house they then become yet more interested.
There is quite a bit of pressure to upgrade televisions from a number of sources. Everything from advertising to gaming promotes HD these days.

Among the 10-15% using OTA analog TV (less in 2009), that still have an analog only tuner, a simple $49 set top tuner will allow tuning the DTV channels in SD and downconverted HD. The gov't should limit subsidizing these tuners and instead apply the bulk of the $3 billion against the debt.

TV stations and advertisers could organize distribution of DTV tuners to the needy and paying customers alike. It is in their interest to keep their viewers watching.

The government will waste 99% of what they touch.

I'm not defending the government. the fact is they already sold the analog bandwidth and will not see any profit/benefit until everyone switchs to digital. I think the article mentioned the government will make ten billion and it will cost three billion to impliment their plan.
To make this even more fun
http://news.com.com/Philips+bringing+cell+phone+TV+to+states/2100-1039_3-5989454.html?...9454&subj=news
Philips bringing cell phone TV to states

Royal Philips Electronics says watching TV on cell phones isn't just an Asian phenomenon.

The Dutch electronics giant now plans to bring its TV-on-cellular chipset to the United States. Handsets with the chips should hit North American shelves sometime in 2006. To ensure that content and content services will be available, Philips has partnered with Crown Castle Mobile Media.

Crown Castle has acquired terrestrial rights to 5 megahertz of L band spectrum and will launch a mobile broadcast network in 2006.

The company will show off the technology at the Computer Electronics Show kicking off on Jan. 5 in Las Vegas.

The company announced a similar chipset--which consists of a TV tuner, a decoder and peripheral components--for the European market earlier in the year. Three out of the six largest handset makers are currently building phones containing the chip for trials that will likely start soon.

Commercially, the first European phones should hit the market toward the middle of 2006, when the FIFA World Cup takes place, said GertJan Kaat, senior vice president and general manager of Philips Semiconductors' mobile and personal business unit.

The U.S. chipset is essentially the same product. "It is a small shift in the frequency band. The rest is all the same," Kaat said.

A few years ago, many looked at TV-on-cell technology as an expensive oddity. TV service began in South Korea in 2002, but the TV signal came over the cellular network, resulting in massive phone bills.

Since then, cell phone makers have decided to integrate TV tuners into handsets. Service providers still charge consumers for delivering content, but overall, it's much cheaper.

"You see a lot of TV (on cell phones) in Japan," Kaat said.
In other news:

* Office standards battle grinds on
* NASA focuses on 3D view of the sun
* Newsmaker: Taking on rootkits with hardware
* Year in review: Data security
* Perspective: Must we renew the Patriot Act?

Japan and Korea, however, rely more on public transportation than the U.S. or even Western Europe, which has prompted some to speculate that these devices may not do as well in other nations. Nonsense, Kaat says. Apple is selling TV shows to go with the video iPod, he noted. Screen size is also not as big a hindrance as some believe.

"To compensate for the small screen, the distance to your eyes is shorter," he said.

Still, broadcasters, cellular providers and handset makers need to iron out all of the commercial issues for delivering programs to phones.

"There are several different business models. The content providers need to experiment," Kaat said.

if I understand it correctly the analog bandwidth has been sold to the wireless companies. By the above article it seems they are starting to capitalize on it with convergence.
Here are a couple of more article links
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct05/1911
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/250259_congtv30.html?source=mypi