HDTV2DVD taking a v e r y l o n g t i me

[bobarnett]

I'm using HDTV2DVD for the very first time and am find it shows that a 2.9GB ts file will be output at about 5.5GB. I clicked on the AutoFit option and proceeded but it took about an hour and 40 minutes to process the whole file. Is this a normal length of time or is something out of whack?

[ChrissyBoy]

That's quick mate. What is the duration of the ts file? If it processes in under the duration you have a nice fast PC.

More conventional methods can take 5 hours+

[edDV]

Welcome to H........D........T..........V

You should try HDV if you like slow.

[MaxBlack]

...it shows that a 2.9GB ts file will be output at about 5.5GB...

CB did you notice this? I don't know why, if the original file was 2.9Gb, it would appear as 5.5Gb in H2D's "size bar"?

Is that right bobarnett, that just the act of dragging your 2.9Gb file onto H2D, and H2D thinks it's bigger than that?

[bobarnett]

...it shows that a 2.9GB ts file will be output at about 5.5GB...

CB did you notice this? I don't know why, if the original file was 2.9Gb, it would appear as 5.5Gb in H2D's "size bar"?

Is that right bobarnett, that just the act of dragging your 2.9Gb file onto H2D, and H2D thinks it's bigger than that?

Well, checking again it turns out I didn't have the numbers exactly right but the original mpg is 2.95GB and if the AutoFit isn't checked, HDTV2DVD reports the ts output would be 5.3GB.

Also, about the processing time, I probably don't understand exactly what Roxio's DVD Builder does but it takes a 2 hour mpg and makes an iso in about 15-20 minutes. Is this called recoding?

[ChrissyBoy]

Also, about the processing time, I probably don't understand exactly what Roxio's DVD Builder does but it takes a 2 hour mpg and makes an iso in about 15-20 minutes. Is this called recoding?

Is that an HDTV mpeg?

[bobarnett]

No, just a regular mpeg. My procedure has been 1) Record on TiVo. 2) Save to a DVD. 3) "Capture" it to my PC using Roxio's Capture. 4) Edit out the commericals using Video ReDo and saving to an mpeg file. 5) Using Roxio's DVD Builder, I make an iso file out of the mpeg (this is the recommended procedure by the experts on Roxio's User Forum). 6) Copy it using Roxio's Disc Copy program. I have had trouble with the last two steps and am now trying to find an alternate and more sucessful process.

[ChrissyBoy]

No, just a regular mpeg.

The it is likely that it is remuxing not re-encoding.

HDTV2DVD re-encodes HDTV resolution Transport Streams to Full-D1 mpeg Program Streams - thats why it takes time.

[bobarnett]

Is transcoding the same as re-coding? When I use Roxio's Disc Copy to burn the iso file to a DVD disk, the window says it is "transcoding". Then when it's through doing that, it says it's burning the DVD. All these terms are still a bit confusing to me.

[MaxBlack]

...My procedure has been 1) Record on TiVo. 2) Save to a DVD. 3) "Capture" it to my PC using Roxio's Capture. 4) Edit out the commericals using Video ReDo and saving to an mpeg file. 5) Using Roxio's DVD Builder, I make an iso file...

Don't you have to Capture to your PC from the Tivo, and manipulate with VideoReDo and Roxio, before you can "Save to a DVD"? This sequence doesn't seem right. As an aside, what is your capture card/device hardware to get Tivo programs into your PC.

...Well, checking again it turns out I didn't have the numbers exactly right but the original mpg is 2.95GB and if the AutoFit isn't checked, HDTV2DVD reports the ts output would be 5.3GB...

This is confusing--H2D does not produce "ts output" at all, nor is it reporting ts output size, H2D's size bar is simply showing how the file that you've dragged to it compares to typical single- and dual-layer DVD sizes. Autofit says "make it fit" a single, or a dual if DL is checked.

What you want to do is:

1. Edit, or just import your completed video into VRD
2. Output that video as a Transport Stream instead of an mpg
3. Drag to H2D, which outputs as a VIDEO_TS folder

I have also used this trick with HDTV2DVD--it doesn't seem to care whether a Transport Stream is HD or SD, it just works. But it feels like you are doing something different, or at least you are mixing-up your terms here so I am having a hard time seeing where the problem might be.

Do this: Import a video into VRD, cut it down to a couple minutes (short for testing), then do a Save Video As. First, Save Video As an MPEG Program Stream as you're used to. Then Save Video As again but this time select Transport Stream. Now, compare the size of the original (test.mpg) and the size of the Transport Stream version (test.ts). They should be a little different but very close (certainly NOT 2x as with your 2.9Gb vs. 5.3Gb problem). If they are NOT close, you probably have VRD's "Omit Null Packets" option unchecked, making its .ts output file unnecessarily big. Check it (Look under TS Output options in the Tools/Options area) and go back and "Save video as" a .ts again. Better?

Note the size of the test.ts file. Drag it onto HDTV2DVD. Click on it there and look at the size bar in H2D--it should not have changed from what it is in Windows Explorer.

I have only used HDTV2DVD in this way (with VRD) a couple of times, to quickly make a DVD from another SD MPEG2 source, but it has always worked for me.

[bobarnett]

I didn't make it very clear so: The DVD I get originally is recorded on a DVR that is hooked to my TiVo.
Now... Confusion is contagious. My apologies. I start to think I understand something and start using the terminology only to find out I'm not saying what I'm meaning. You're right, the output from VRD+ produced two (ts and mpeg) almost identically size files. When I drag the ts file into the Assets it shows it as 2.85GB in the size column. Then when I drag it from Assets to Layout the size bar shows 4.89GB and that's where I mistakenly thought it was showing the file size. H2D then produced two folders; Audio_TS which is empty and Video_TS which has 4.3GB of files in it which, of course, will fit on a DVD.
I think I'm clear on all that now but I still don't quite get why this method of getting my edited program onto a DVD takes so much longer. I am doing something extra here that I don't need to?
p.s. I did investigate and found that the "Omit Null Packets" option was checked.

[ChrissyBoy]

What is the resolution of your original mpeg?

[MaxBlack]

Regarding the time this takes, and your earlier questions:

Roxio's DVD Builder...takes a 2 hour mpg and makes an iso in about 15-20 minutes.

Clearly DVD Builder is not re-encoding your VideoReDo output at all, it is "just" de-multiplexing the mpg (separating the video and audio) and re-multiplexing (re-combining them in a way that is unique to what DVD players expect) as the VOB files you see in the VIDEO_TS folder. Mpg files have just one video and one audio in them, while VOB files [can have] all of multiple video (angles), multiple audio (e.g. commentary, languages), multiple subtitles, and chapter markers. So they are structurally different from mpgs. DVD Builder is just separating and re-making the mpg into a VOB for DVD playback, which is pretty fast.

When the mpg is too big for a DVD, it has to be re-encoded, which basically takes the video frame-by-frame and completely re-does it. So it takes a lot of time.

There are two reasons I can think of for using HDTV2DVD with your homebrew programs:

1. It is VERY easy to use; just drag, drop, start, and walk away.

2. It will re-do a program to fit a DVD without your having to think about it.

ChrissyBoy will know, but I'm gonna guess that the reason your 2.8Gb program ends-up as a 4.3Gb VIDEO_TS folder is because H2D actually intends/is designed to make a higher bitrate DVD than your original recorded program. H2D was designed for High Def, higher resolution programs at a much higher bitrate than you have provided to it, and is normally down-rezzing to Standard Def, but in your case it may be Up-rezzing it (higher bitrate, anyway).

I'm curious, how does that 4.3Gb DVD LOOK in comparison to the original? The bottom line is: because H2D re-encodes your video, I think you'd want to use it mostly (only?) to re-encode long programs to fit onto a single DVD disc.

[ChrissyBoy]

ChrissyBoy will know, but I'm gonna guess that the reason your 2.8Gb program ends-up as a 4.3Gb VIDEO_TS folder is because H2D actually intends/is designed to make a higher bitrate DVD than your original recorded program. H2D was designed for High Def, higher resolution programs at a much higher bitrate than you have provided to it, and is normally down-rezzing to Standard Def, but in your case it may be Up-rezzing it (higher bitrate, anyway).

I'm curious, how does that 4.3Gb DVD LOOK in comparison to the original? The bottom line is: because H2D re-encodes your video, I think you'd want to use it mostly (only?) to re-encode long programs to fit onto a single DVD disc.

Well that is the whole thrust of this thread...

You have a SD mpeg and you are using a tool designed for HD. In approx terms you have a mpeg at less than or equal to 720 * 480 resolution at a bitrate of around 4000kbs. A HDTV mpeg would be 1920 * 1080 resolution at 19Mbs. So HDTV2DVD chooses the best bitrate for its encoding to fit a DVD and comes up with 7800kbs in most cases for your duration. If it was a HTDV mpeg that would reduce the original bitrate from 19Mbs and result in a far smaller file than the original BUT when faced with a low bitrate file like yours (4000kbs approx) it will make the end file bigger than the original (this is where you get the 2.9GB ->5.5GB in your first post). Using Autofit you reduce the encoding bitrate to say 6000kbs and then you get a 4.7GB DVD.

[bobarnett]

Ok, I think I understand the size thing now. Roxio's Disc Copier also reduces the size of the file (transcode is the term they use) in about 10-15 minutes and then burns it in another 10-15 minutes but it starts with an iso file or folder with VOB files that are produced by Roxio's DVD builder. Because it's so fast, I'd like to continue using Disc Copier if possible. If the option to AutoFit is not checked is HDTV2DVD faster?

[ChrissyBoy]

No different. If you are happy with Roxio's apps I would continue to use them. HDTV2DVD is a different beast - it will always re-encode your input and will therefore be orders of magnitide slower... But it is supposed to be!

[bobarnett]

Actually, I am dissatisfied with most of Roxio's apps with the exception of Capture and Disc Copier. I have had lots of problems with the rest of the Suite. I notice that VRD+ has the option of saving an edited video as a VOB file. Disc Copier has the ability to use an iso or a video folder as a source file to burn to a DVD. How would I construct a standard DVD-Video Folder using this VOB file? I tried just creating a folder named Video_TS and putting the file in there but Disc Copier didn't seem to recognize it as a valid folder.

[MaxBlack]

@ChrissyBoy

Very nice, concise explanation of using H2D with (its intended) HD source material, vs. using it on SD. Thanks for clarifying.

@bobarnett

H2D's re-encoding capability should beat Roxio's trans-coding capability, but it prolly depends alot on the source. If you have weak source material, or very little size reduction to do, you may not see a difference.

As for VRD's VOB output, I read somewhere that this feature is good for use with only one or two specific programs--maybe a search on VOB and VRD, or a visit to their support site, can answer this for you.

A VOB by itself doesn't have everything a valid VIDEO_TS folder needs, as you've found out.

[bobarnett]

I think I now have enough information and tools to keep me busy for a while. Thanks to all for their input. It has been a good learning experience for me even though I am still a bit overwhelmed by plethora of decisions to make.