Looking for assistance choosing a Christmas present

[Grapaslingo]

Hi all,

Forgive the length of this--but I want to be as accurate as possible. I've been camping out here reading through the posts for the last few days trying to find the information I'm after. I'm blown away by the knowledgeable and helpful folks that hang out here and contribute, so I hope it is in this spirit that you'll help me out.

I'm in the market for a DVD/HDD combo unit as a Christmas present for my wife and I.

First off, I use a Moto 6412 HDTV DVR. I do not like it, but it does ecord my HD programs, so I have little choice. This will be the source for the unit coming from (I presume) the S-video out, rather than coming directly from the analog cable feed.

So here's my questions (and please forgive me if they are simple):

1. Can I record TV shows to the hard drive, perform simple edits (and possibly add a menu and titles) and burn a dvd that will play in most players?

2. Is it possible to record On-Demand or HBO programs? I've read somewhere that DVD-RAM is the only way (short of bypassing copy-protection features) to make a backup of these. Is that correct?

3. Are there players that will make a fast backup/copy of home-made movies I've done on my PC?

4. Can I use BOTH the analog cable in to extract the TV Guide info as well as the S-video in to pull the video source itself?

5. Which machine offers the most complete editing features (menus, etc.) I realize these standalone units aren't designed for it...

6. In case I want to do more in-depth edits/effects, etc, what is the easiest way to bring it from the standalone recorder to the PC. Can programs recorded on DVD-RAM be brought in and directly edited on a PC?

7. Finally, not to start a massive debate--but given my questions and needs, what machine would you recommend?

[Frobozz]

I do this with my 2-year-old Pioneer DVR-510H-S and the Moto 6412, so you shouldn't have any trouble with current models. I don't have HBO so I don't know if any or its programs can't be recorded via S-video to the DVD recorder. I don't have any trouble recording VOD.

I use VR-mode DVD-RW when I want to transfer video recorded by the Pioneer to my Mac for special editing and re-authoring. I know that DVD-RAM also works with my Mac's software (Toast 7) but that's not what the Pioneer uses.

I have the cable split ahead of the 6412 so I can record analog channels with the DVD recorder's tuner. The analog channels look better on the Pioneer than they do on the 6412. The 6412 is connected to the Pioneer via S-video for copying any digital program that the 6412 is playing.

The Pioneer DVR-533H-s and 633H-S are identical except for an 80 GB and 160 GB hard drive respectively. I find the 80GB hard drive very adequate especially since I use the 6412 for the time-shifting programs I don't want to copy to DVD. Also, I can use low-cost DVD-RW discs to virtually expand the hard drive space.

One nice feature in the Pioneer models is they will make duplicate DVDs at high speed from other finalized DVDs (such as the ones you recorded on your PC).

The menu selection on the Pioneer recorders is basic. It doesn't matter much, however, because the menu only appears if you press the menu button.

Any HD channels you record will be letterbox 4:3. The Pioneer recorder will correctly flag anamorphic 16:9 480i video from your camcorder, computer or other source capable of sending that video; but the 6412 doesn't output 16:9 480i video.

I recommend the Pioneer DVR-533H-S as one of the models you compare. The manual can be downloaded from the Pioneerelectronics.com site.

[Grapaslingo]

Thanks, Frobozz! A couple more questions for you. You said:

I use VR-mode DVD-RW when I want to transfer video recorded by the Pioneer to my Mac for special editing and re-authoring. I know that DVD-RAM also works with my Mac's software (Toast 7) but that's not what the Pioneer uses.

What about simple edits to remove commercials. Can this be done on the hard drive and burned to a dvd-r? It seems from what I've read that a lot of machines will only do these types of edits and burns to dvd-rw. Or vr(?) mode.

Also, do you use the DVR in your Pioneer for wathing all analog broadcasts, or just for recording them? Do you switch between the 6412 and the Pioneer?

BTW, that's exceptionally good to hear that you are able to do this on a Ma, since that's really what I'll be using as well!

[StrikeEagle]

Do you know of any online shops in the UK that sell the Pioneer DVR-533 or 633? I've only been able to find the 433 so far (amazon).

[Frobozz]

What about simple edits to remove commercials. Can this be done on the hard drive and burned to a dvd-r? It seems from what I've read that a lot of machines will only do these types of edits and burns to dvd-rw. Or vr(?) mode.

I'm pretty sure that all the DVD recorders will let you cut commercials and do other trimming-type editing on the hard drive. The limitation you're referring to is when trying to edit on a DVD itself. What you'll do, however, is record and edit on the HDD and fast copy the edited version to the DVD.

Also, do you use the DVR in your Pioneer for wathing all analog broadcasts, or just for recording them? Do you switch between the 6412 and the Pioneer?

The 6412 is horrible with the analog channels. It has a crummy MPEG encoder and then plays the video after encoding. Using the Pioneer's tuner I'm watching the incoming analog signal without encoding. Last night I watched SciFi channel's The Triangle via the Pioneer's tuner while the Pioneer also was recording it. In order to use the Pioneer's chase-play feature, I would have had to watch from the video that was being recorded. Interestingly, even at the 2-hour recording mode the Pioneer's MPEG video from analog channels looks better than the 6412's.

I also program the Pioneer to record any analog-channel programs I want for time-shifting. Not only is the quality better, but recording analog channels on the 6412 takes up large chunks of the 6412's hard drive which I'd rather use for recording HDTV.

If you do get a Pioneer recorder let me know when you want some tips for getting it to work with your Mac.

[Frobozz]

Do you know of any online shops in the UK that sell the Pioneer DVR-533 or 633? I've only been able to find the 433 so far (amazon).

I found this page that lists the DVD recorder models that Pioneer sells in Europe & UK:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_overview.jsp?category_id=501&taxonomy_id=45-133

[Grapaslingo]

Frobozz,

It looks like the Pioneer unit doesn't record to DVD-RAM. Do you (or anyone else) know whether or not DVD-RAM is the only way to backup HBO/On-Demand programs?

Also, do you use the guide system through the analog cable? If so, how well does it work?

[Frobozz]

I have never encountered a program from my Comcast cable that I haven't been able to record to a DVD. This includes those times when I've subscribed to a premium movie channel and recorded from On Demand.

However, if there is a CPRM "copy-once" program sent it can only be recorded to the Pioneer's HDD or to a VR-mode DVD-RW. I believe that is the same restriction you'll find with recorders that use DVD-RAM instead of VR-mode DVD-RW. The fundamentals are the same even though the media is different.

My Pioneer recorder pre-dates the TV Guide On Screen system. Mine just has manual recording or VCR+ codes. I've read where some people really like TVGOS and some people hate it. The complaints seem to be about hard drive noise as the guide updates are being saved and about how it doesn't work with satellite TV so it gets in the way for those users. This is a good reason to download and read the manual.

[Grapaslingo]

Hi all--thanks to Frobozz and some good reviews, I finally selected the Pioneer 633h and I've been pretty pleased with it. I have it connected to the HDTV Comcast unit (Motorola 6412) via S-video and I'm wondering if anyone else has this setup. I'm not able to see the menu or the guides, through this, even though the video looks fine. Does anyone with a similar setup know what might be causing this and how to rectify it?

[Frobozz]

You should be able to see the DVR's menus and guides through the Pioneer when the Motorola is tuned to the non-HD channels. The Motorola doesn't transmit the guides via S-video when tuned to the HD channels.

[Grapaslingo]

Thanks!