DVD-Audio and SACD player hookup?

[zagortenej]

Here is the problem: I have DVD-Audio and SACD players and they both require 5.1 analog connection for DVD-Audio and SACD playback. Now my receiver has only one 5.1 analog input, so I can connect only one player at the time. I tried solving the problem by using audio cable Y spliters, but the result is that one player plays fine and another has heavily distorted sound and significantly lower volume (of course, i didn't play them both at the same time and before playing one I would turn off the other one). So this doesn't seem to be a solution.

Does anyone know if there is perhaps 5.1 analog audio swithch box or something similar I could use to hook up both players to my receiver and be able to choose the audio source as needed? I know some receivers have two sets of 5.1 analog inputs but they are way too expensive for me, and I don't want to spend more money for getting yet another 'universal DVD player'.

I tried googling for 5.1 analog switch but couldn't find anything that would help me solve the problem.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Sorry if the post is misplaced.

[greymalkin]

you need the pioneer dv-563A it plays both.

[daphy]

Yamaha DVD-S657, too

[NiteLite]

No problem. Go to Radio Shack and purchase two of their 6-channel input and 3 channel output A/B switchers. The reason you need two are they are only 3 channels out each. You will need 18 cables.
DVD-1 will output to both boxes on side "A".
DVD-2 will output to both boxex on side "B"
The output to amp/receiver will come from the 3 channels in the center from A box and B box. You will use one center output listed as "video" for your center channel and the other on 2nd box for sub. Keeping correct line in matching line out is a must.
RS had the boxes for about $10 but recently I saw they had upgraded to a $15 model. Both work the same.
When you want to hear DVD-A select A on BOTH boxes and when SACD select B on BOTH boxes. Works perfect.
I was able to use 3ft. lengths for all cables due to setup. The Radio Shack "Gold" series is a good audio cable if money is a concern. They are much better than standard shipped with unit cables and probably as good as the highly overpriced Monster brand like CC sells.
18 cables and 2 boxes add up in cost but is the solution and the sound is excelent and worth it If you already have the DVD-A and SACD player. It's cheaper than buying a new unit especially a cheap dual player. I've heard the cheap Pioneer combo. Not impressed with sound. Neither was my friend that purchased it.
Good luck,
NL
PS...dont forget to select "External In" on the receiver for the high resolution analog quality.

[zagortenej]

Thank you all for replying to my question, especially NiteLite. I will follow your suggestion; hopefully the same switchers can be found in one of RadioShack's local stores here in Edmonton.

In the meantime, I have found a company that makes and sells 5.1 audio swith box, but it is priced insanely high - $450 USD!. Details can be found at http://www.zektor.com/mas3/index.html.

Incidentally, I am curious as to why using Y cable splitters and hooking up the two units that way doesn't work and gives good sound for one unit only (the other, as I mentioned in my original post, has the sound heavily distorted and much lower in volume)? I am using a Y splitter to connect two DVD players to one Coax Digital In on my receiver and it works just fine.

Regarding getting a universal DVD player, I actually have two of those: Pioneer DV-563A and Samsung DVD-HD841. But I have decided to upgrade my audio system to Cambridge Audio Azur series; unfortunately, their 540D DVD player has no support for SACD (hopefully the next model will). As there is a noticable difference in sound quailty between Cambridge Audio and my other two universal players I want to use my new unit as a default DVD-Audio player and either Samsung or Pioneer as my SACD payer. Incidentally, has there been any testing of Pioneer and Samsung players in terms of SACD-payback sound quality and, if so, which one is better as a SACD player? I have found a few reviews of each unit, but they are overly general and quite vague when it comes to their audio quality. I find this strange since, one would assume, universal DVD players are geared more towards audio rather than video enthusiasts.

Thanks again for all the replies and I will do a follow-up here once I set everything up.

[levick]

Incidentally, I am curious as to why using Y cable splitters and hooking up the two units that way doesn't work and gives good sound for one unit only (the other, as I mentioned in my original post, has the sound heavily distorted and much lower in volume)? I am using a Y splitter to connect two DVD players to one Coax Digital In on my receiver and it works just fine.

You have two line level amps looking at each other, the one with the lowest output impedence wins. This is a no no as a rule, if you have connected two power amps this way there would have been some serious smoke now.

[zagortenej]

Thanks for clarifying the matter; I sure am glad my receiver didn't get toasted or damaged (just got it a couple of days ago). That would have been devastating.

Regarding switchers, I found this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/4-Way-HDTV-Switch-Component-S-Video-Audio_W0QQitemZ5837650168QQcate...QQcmdZViewItem

It's a 4-Way HDTV Switch made by Philips.

Could I use this as my 5.1 audio switcher? Since, in total, the switcher has 6 inputs/outputs, I'd be using its both video and audio inputs/outputs to get audio signals only from my two units to the receiver. Would this be a problem, since not all of them are dedicated audio connectors? Would there be any degradation in sound quality?

Again, thanks for all input/comments.

[Cornucopia]

Think of it kind of like 2 creeks that flow into a river...

One stream might be stronger than the other. Both streams want to move downstream, but at the confluence of the streams, there may be some backwash and eddys which will create turbulence ("foam" or distortion) in the weaker creek and its output into the main river. Actually, this analogy is more appropo than you think, it's very much like what is going on at the electron level.

So the upshot--never use Y-cables for mixing 2 inputs to one output (and only rarely for splitting one input to 2 outputs).

Scott

[MOVIEGEEK]

That Philips 4-way box should work but checkout www.crutchfield.com or www.partsexpress.com.

[zagortenej]

Think of it kind of like 2 creeks that flow into a river...

One stream might be stronger than the other. Both streams want to move downstream, but at the confluence of the streams, there may be some backwash and eddys which will create turbulence ("foam" or distortion) in the weaker creek and its output into the main river. Actually, this analogy is more appropo than you think, it's very much like what is going on at the electron level.

I think your analogy is quite appropriate, but I'm still unsure why there would be a problem if one source - i.e. stream - is shut down - i.e. dried out? Aren't you, by way of turning off one source and dealing only with one at the time, effectively temporarily drying our one stream, thus controlling 'the output into the main river' and avoiding turbulence?

I'm sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm just curious to learn and, at the same time, not much electro-tech savvy.

Thanks for the links MOVIEGEEK.

[NiteLite]

Thank you all for replying to my question, especially NiteLite. I will follow your suggestion; hopefully the same switchers can be found in one of RadioShack's local stores here in Edmonton.

In the meantime, I have found a company that makes and sells 5.1 audio swith box, but it is priced insanely high - $450 USD!.

Your welcome. I try to push DVD-A and SACD every chance I get. This is one technology that should not simply die away for lack of interest.
If people like DD5.1 and DTS5.1 they should really give high resolution 6 channel analog DVD-A/SACD a try.
Just like movies each disc is usually mastered differently and some will sound better than others. I had DVD-A for a few years and a couple years ago or so when Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" was released in SACD I had to have it. Even at the cost of having to buy a SACD player. (I did get a good deal). The original recording was mastered in 4 channel audio but do to the limit of tape and CD 2 channel we never heard it the way Floyd wanted it heard. The SACD of it will give one an experience that once heard you find it hard to go back to 2 channel. I was blown away by the difference.

zagortenej, I gave you a solution that is cheap and works. Any switcher that does not have 18 channels - input (12) and output (6) will not work.
That's why in my solution 2 boxes are needed (each with 6-inputs and 3-outputs).
Dont try too hard to find the "holy grail" of switchers. If like me you end up with headaches. When I was in your shoes looking I was posting at a forum and a guy PM'ed me with the solution I gave you of using 2 A/B switchers. I followed it and in a couple days was through and listening to music. What I am saying is there are a few options but sometimes simple and what works is easier. I'm sure your RS has the switchers, if not they should be able to order them 1 - 2 days.

Keep pushing DVD-A and SACD. Thanks for buying the players and enjoying the sound. It's a shame retailers are not knowledable and dont push the product and the studios have not promoted it the way they should have.
Enjoy,
NL

[greymalkin]

i don't know about the other players, but i know the pioneer doesn't have a dedicated SACD decoder onboard. It has a single chip that natively decodes DVD-Audio and does some sort of conversion process with the SACD's in order to decode them....even this being the case..i WAS impressed with the noticeable quality difference going from DTS to dvd-audio/SACD even with my lowly shamefull wretched despicable pioneer.

[NiteLite]

i don't know about the other players, but i know the pioneer doesn't have a dedicated SACD decoder onboard. It has a single chip that natively decodes DVD-Audio and does some sort of conversion process with the SACD's in order to decode them....even this being the case..i WAS impressed with the noticeable quality difference going from DTS to dvd-audio/SACD even with my lowly shamefull wretched despicable pioneer.

That's interesting. Will try to find some info on how that works. I was a Pioneer fan during the 70's and 80's. Then in the latter 90's they went so mass market that profit took over quality. A few years back they released their 1st gen. dual player (dont remember model # ). It was a mess although it worked but sound quality compaired to more costly units was a little off.. I think the price was about $125.00 and at the time was so cheap compaired to other players especially combos.
Pioneer did do a relatively quick upgrade and the next gen model seemed to be cleaner and improved in other areas.
Pioneer chose to go the cheap mass market route and leave quality to their Elite line but even thoses DVD players and combos rated low on the video side and costs were very high and units were buggy. Pioneer also announced sometime back that their R&D were going to concentrate on Auto audio and continue cheap mass market cost and quality to Home equipment. Really sad.
I did buy a Pioneer DVD-recorder (220) for my home system a few months ago and it seems to do ok. I'm pleased with it so far.
I'd buy a Goldstar if it was the only way to get DVD-A/SACD.
Again, thanks for the info, greymalkin.
NL

[Cornucopia]

I think your analogy is quite appropriate, but I'm still unsure why there would be a problem if one source - i.e. stream - is shut down - i.e. dried out? Aren't you, by way of turning off one source and dealing only with one at the time, effectively temporarily drying our one stream, thus controlling 'the output into the main river' and avoiding turbulence?

I'm sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm just curious to learn and, at the same time, not much electro-tech savvy.

Thanks for the links MOVIEGEEK.

You would think that, but there is still some load and electrical "reflections" because the phyical connections are still there--it still is a sort of closed circuit. Like a dried creek on the side where the water swirls in, moves along, stops, and tries to back up, gets stuck, and causes a disturbance in the main flow.

There are ways to minimize this by adding the right kind and layout of resistor networks so there is basically a "one-way" action. But, oops, that's what's known as a PASSIVE MIXER (differentiated from ACTIVE MIXERS that can add amplification/gain).

Scott

[zagortenej]

Thank you all for your replies. I ended up getting Philips' 4-Way HDTV Switch for routing audio signals from my DVD-A/SACD players, and so far things are working great. The switch has - all in one box - three sets of inputs and one output for the simultaneous routing of component and composite video signals, and stereo audio signals (6 inputs per switch in total), which makes it ideal for multiple 5.1 direct audio connections. I got the switch at Wal-Mart for about $22 USD, which is a much better deal than getting it on eBay (the guy selling it there was asking $39.99 USD + $15 USD for shipping to Canada).

NiteLite, I share your enthusiasm for DVD-A & SACD format and when there is a choice between standard CD and DVD-A or SACD version of a title, I always go for the latter. However, I find that more often than not I end up being not too pleased with multi-channel mixes of the recordings I buy. In my opinion there are very few recordings that take full advantage of surround sound capabilities, and too many that in a way abuse the format by offering what I'd call 'pseudo-surround', i.e. the kind of mixing that either duplicates front channels and routes them - with slight modifications - to surround channels, or simply uses surrounds for adding some 'spatial ambiance' (especially true of classical music recordings). As far as I'm concerned, this is not a true surround mix because same affects can be generated by receiver's DSP effects or DD and DTS surround-emulation options. I personally prefer advenutous mixes where surrounds are employed to their fullest extent and where music comes from all corners, as it were. Unfortunately, there are very few recordings that fit the bill (I find that even Pink Floyd's DSOTM surround mix is too 'restrained', given truly revolutionary and experimental nature of music/recording).

Nonetheless, I think that the format is worth supporting because it provides a greater sonic fidelity and higher listening enjoyment. I do buy both DVD-Audio and SACD discs, but I find that SACD - on my system, at least - sounds better; the sound is more transparent and crispier.

[NiteLite]

zagortenej,
Glad to hear you got everything up and running. Nice.

As to your thoughts on DVD-A and SACD, I agree 100%. Some sound engineers do it for a pay check and some do it because they love music. You can really tell which after playing a new purchase.
I was pretty impressed with DSOTM after hearing it in 2-channel for 30 years.
Also another example of a good remix from another 30 yr. old recording is The Doobie Brothers' - "The Captain And Me". (DVD-A)
I fault myself for not checking out web sites dedicated to the formats and checking out reviews before buying.
Again, glad you got it.
Enjoy,
NL