Better MPEG2 encoder...Toast 7, Mpeg2Works4, iDVD, others?

[baturjan]

I have Toast 7, Mpeg2Works4, and iDVD. How do you judge which encodes better (i.e., better quality video in the end, not extra bells and whistles)? Is the answer purely subjective, or are there sure facts based on the type of technology used?

Along with this question: What options are there for the next step up in mpeg2 encoders? MainConcept?

[broaddd]

Subjectively, I think the free ffmpegx encodes mpeg-2 better than Toast at low-medium bit-rates.

[terryj]

Apple's Compressor 1.21 ( not new Version 2.0.2)
is versatile in encoding [this is more so to the user's
knowledge of BitRate Budgeting, more so than anything
else , ] and IMHO, is all a person needs to encode
anything from single episode tv shows, to large
movie/BTS/Extra packed discs.

now, since it is a software encoder, it is only as fast as
the onboard processor/ram/and skill set of the person
making the encodings.

That being said, the MainConcept stuff with their PCI Hardware
encoder cards can offer a boost in speed
in overall processing time; Compressor, however
is fine for the average-to mid-average person.

[willrob]

Compressor is significantly more expensive thean the other apps mentioned; due to its availability being linked to Apple Pro applications only.

[Frobozz]

Toast 7 uses a MainConcept mpeg encoder plus it encodes Dolby Digital audio which can allow for greater bit rates for the video portion. There's always some compromise with consumer-level MPEG encoding, though, because the highest-quality encoding takes too much time for most consumer's hardware and patience.

[miksu]

Bitvice is very good, and has useful features like denoise-filter and selectable color profiles etc. "pro" things. My favorite.

[macuser25]

http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_macencoder.shtml

this is the same encoder included in Toast 7.

Toast has custom settings to control the various encoding options as well as simplified presets to balance quality vs speed/time to encode. It also adds in a Dolby encoder for sound.

[bakaruku]

Well, you got a good question. I use mpeg2work4 and wouldn't change for anything else. It's fast and effective. I did try other program like toast or Apple's Compressor and while not giving me better quality (keep in mind that you have to consider the quality of the files you work with, don't expect high quality result with a low quality file), the process was way longuer.
My advise is to try the program you have and make a lot of test. Compare time and quality you get for the same operation and you'll be in better to evaluate the best option for you.

[baturjan]

thanks for the replies. I've always used Mpeg2Works4 for compressing, and only added mpeg2 files to Toast. I'll test them out as you said.

[terryj]

Compressor is significantly more expensive thean the other apps mentioned; due to its availability being linked to Apple Pro applications only.

Main Concept is $150
BitVice is $150

if you buy DVDSP 3 you get it, plus Compressor, plus A.Pack for $409
or roughly $137.00 an app.

comparable if you ask me.
8)

[chikanakan]

I've never been impressed with Compressor. The quality has never been that good, and Apple seems to be moving backward with it. It gets slow and slow and doesn't give better output. Most pro users don't even like it.

Main Concept and BitVice are better, but BitVice is slow and I've never liked the output from DV. The colors are always off. It will produce good output if you have the time to mess with it.

Main Concept is fast and has lots of options. It has good MPEG-1 output also. Like others have mentioned, Toast uses Main Concept and you can get it for about $70-80. Much cheaper than BitVice. BitVice Lite is 150. The full version is 300. Main Concept is 250. I don't know where terryj gets his prices. Maybe he needs to share

Toast has Dolby Digital. That alone is worth a little extra. A.Pack which comes with DVDSP doesn't even create valid files anymore. I'm surprised Dolby allows Apple to still sell it. I spent several months doing Dolby Certification for software, and A.Pack is broken.

ffmpeg is free.

[terryj]

I've never been impressed with Compressor. The quality has never been that good, and Apple seems to be moving backward with it. It gets slow and slow and doesn't give better output. Most pro users don't even like it.

Most Pro Users don't like Compressor 2, which Apple Screwed up
in trying to make it compete with Main Concept's encoder,
by incorporating Shake technology.
Many Apple Pros have gone back to Compressor 1.21, which rocks
on any Dual G5, and performs well on any Dual G4.
they also ( rightly so) use a variety of other compression apps
for various other tasks, such as encoding for .wmv, real and web.

Apple's Compressor Support board
http://Ken Stone's <a class="contentlink" href="https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Fi...>FCP</a> forum
HD 4 Indies Compressor 2 notes
DVDCreators Forum

Main Concept and BitVice are better, but BitVice is slow and I've never liked the output from DV. The colors are always off. It will produce good output if you have the time to mess with it.

But what a nightmare to do so. I tried some output with it, and
RED is heavily problematic with it.

Main Concept is fast and has lots of options. It has good MPEG-1 output also. Like others have mentioned, Toast uses Main Concept and you can get it for about $70-80. Much cheaper than BitVice. BitVice Lite is 150. The full version is 300. Main Concept is 250. I don't know where terryj gets his prices. Maybe he needs to share

if your a registered user, and in the industry, you should be
getting good prices.
Maybe you need to get out more and meet more industry VARs?

Toast has Dolby Digital. That alone is worth a little extra. A.Pack which comes with DVDSP doesn't even create valid files anymore. I'm surprised Dolby allows Apple to still sell it. I spent several months doing Dolby Certification for software, and A.Pack is broken.

Apple doesn't OFFICIALLY sell A.Pack ( bundled w/ DVD Studio 3 )
anymore, VARs still do.
Apple only sells FCP Studio, which has Compressor 2, which
has the former features of A.Pack built in.

Did you in your effort of Dolby Testing, test, Compressor 2's output?
What were you results?

ffmpeg is free.

[chikanakan]

if your a registered user, and in the industry, you should be
getting good prices.
Maybe you need to get out more and meet more industry VARs?

Well, I got both for free so price wasn't a problem However, non-pro users don't have that luxury.

Did you in your effort of Dolby Testing, test, Compressor 2's output?
What were you results?

Nope. My testing finished before Compressor 2 was out. At $5000 a month for test hardware, one can't keep it forever However, Apple would have had to do a major overhaul for it to work. Maybe they fixed it and got re-certified, but I have a feeling they didn't.

[jbaugh]

Many Apple Pros have gone back to Compressor 1.21, which rocks
on any Dual G5, and performs well on any Dual G4.

I have Compressor 2.0.1 which came with Final Cut Studio. If 1.2.1 is better than the version I have, obviously I would like to acquire it. It sounds like it would run very nicely on my new Quad G5.

But how does one go about getting an older version of Compressor if he owns the newer version? Can I downgrade for free? If not, then how can I acquire Compressor 1.2.1 at the least cost?
Thanks.
John

[terryj]

The only way to acquire Compressor 1.21
is to either buy from a reputable VAR
a copy of Final Cut Pro 4 or to buy DVD Studio Pro 3.

If you are part of a MUG, you can get discount pricing
on the older software. If you are a student ( even night classes)
you can get discounts on the software. if you are in charge
of ordering and maintaining software for a large company,
and know several VARS, you can competively get pricing.


I would start with this VAR here, but search around, his
supply may be great, but he doesn't always have the lowest
price.

[terryj]

Maybe you need to get out more and meet more industry VARs?

Well, I got both for free so price wasn't a problem However, non-pro users don't have that luxury.

aaah..... :P

Did you in your effort of Dolby Testing, test, Compressor 2's output?
What were you results?

Nope. My testing finished before Compressor 2 was out. At $5000 a month for test hardware, one can't keep it forever However, Apple would have had to do a major overhaul for it to work. Maybe they fixed it and got re-certified, but I have a feeling they didn't.

Perhaps.... but they are selling it that way at least....
Univ of Boston on DVD Studio Pro
Apple's notes on DVD Studio Pro 4