I am sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum (section) but I feel my question is heavily based on this section.
I have been absent for quite sometime. I did a bunch of searching and reading old posts but still no avail. Like some of us here are deaf, I am too. I have a handful of VHS tapes that I want to record in DVD. I did a search here and found out that a number of DVD recorders does capture closed captions now (About time technology caught up and make it affordable.)
My question is that once I have it recorded to a DVD, can I edit it without losing the closed captioning?
If the answer is yes, then please explain as I am also clueless. I see from searching posts that a number of people here are experts.
I am willing to drop $400 for a DVD recorder that will allow me to record my VHS tapes or anything if I can edit it later without losing the captioning. I read about dvdshrink which is no longer updated but it still does the job when ripping dvds to hard drive. I have read about McPoole's time consuming task ( a method I don't have patience for.)
My ideal project is this. Bear with me as I give an example, it is just for illustrative purposes only to make you understand.
Record a VHS tape to DVD. The tape has 4 30-minute TV shows on it.
On the computer, capture or rip the 4 TV shows in 4 mpg files.
I open some video editing software and edit out the commericals. Save each 4 shows. It becomes 20-minutes each. (In reality, it is 18-22 minutes per show.)
I do the same to get a 5th and 6th show added, both edited and saved to 20-minutes.
Now that is 2 hours. 20x6 = 120minutes
I use NeroVision to make a movie. I create 6 chapters, one for each TV show.
Burn it to a new DVD.
Play it back on my DVD player (not recorder) and the closed captioning is still there.
That's what I like to do now. Any chance or am I still dreaming. Or possible but laborous task.
I have completed all home videos (which has no captioning) with my AIW 8500DV and used NeroVision to make DVD movies. I am just left with the VHS movies that I want to save in DVD some are TV Shows. Some of the VHS movies I have are no longer produced and there is no DVD planned in sight. Some are TV shows that I had recorded as the family loved it.
Thank you for your help.
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SFAIK, the only method for converting closed captions to subtitles is McPoodles method you have already seen. I use a somewhat simplified version, but still takes two passes. Second pass is with recorded MPG, so no synch issues.
To edit the subs is a hassle, it can be done but if you don't like McPoodles method you're gonna Really Hate this.
Just thinking, tho the easiest way would be to stop the DVD recorder at each commercial break, this would mean many smaller files but they would just need trimmed, no commercials cut out of the middle. The closed captions or subtitles would not have to be adjusted. -
Thanks,
I can't quite get the ATI 8500DV capture to work with McPooles recommendation. But after further researching, it turns out to be the capture chipset. So I guess I have to get a other cheap capture card. Or just continue to wait until technology gets better on the DVD recorders.
Another thought about TiVo. Well, I know I am going off topic here. So I will shut up. 8)
Just a thought as I learned about Wombles MPEG editing application. If I cut out the commericals there without changing the video settings as I found instructions on that from another site. www.digital(something).com Will the captions remain there? -
First you're talking about DVD recorders, then you're talking about capture cards--which one are you asking about?
As regards DVD recorders:
1. Assuming they DO successfully capture closed captions (NTSC).
2. Assuming your source VHS has closed captions on them.
3. Assuming you use an MPEG cuts-only type editing app (so no recompression)
4. Assuming you don have Macrovision difficulties
5. Assuming you specifically want CLOSED CAPTIONS (line21) and not Subtitles (DVD subpictures)
Yes, you should be able to do this:
1. Record from VHS to DVD. Finalize.
2. Rip DVD to HD, saving elemental MPEG2 video and AC3 or WAV audio (depending on which is supported for editing in you MPEG edit app)
3. Edit and export to New, Shorter media pairs.
4. Load in Authoring app, design, link, burn, ENJOY!
NOTE: Because of the "antique" technology behind Closed captions, it is strongly recommended to caption providers that they put the encoding flags/instructions for each particular caption line about 1-2 seconds earlier to provide time for the decoder to decode and be ready to display in sync with where it is meant on screen. Therefore, you must leave AT LEAST that much before your edits (and probably a little after for safety's sake), or you might cut of a caption instruction and it won't show or would be garbled.
Test out a DVD recorder for this before buying!
Test out a MPEG edit app for cuts only and audio support before buying!
Test out sample cuts on short pieces to get a handle on lead/lag times needed before doing your main work!
HTH,
Scott -
Actually, I can't get the capturing to work according to McPoole's instructions with my video card. So I am turning to DVD recorders that will do the job. Saves me the hassle.
Of course, I am actually talking about DVD recorders. The trouble is finding a working doable unit. I am still researching on that. As far as people have not posting whether the unit does closed captions well after ripping. I rarely find a post on the units recording captions. I know it says it supports Closed Caption on the box but to what degree? Only for playback on the unit or can rip it on computer?
If the unit converts the closed captions to subtitles, I don't have a problem with it. I actually want closed captions recorded somehow as it is what VHS tape contains. I kinda want to avoid open captions if possible. I still have the old TeleCaption II decoder.
Any tips on testing the unit at the store before buying? I have a DVD-RW disc that I can record a captioned show at the store then bring it home and rip it. I know I have to finalize it at the store. -
Originally Posted by Cornucopia
2. Yes they do.
3. I plan to use Wombles. Hopefully it will work just fine as I mentioned earlier.
4. Can you clarify? I don't have any VHS that has it as far as I know.
5. I don't care for either way. If line21 gets converted to subtitles, I am find with it.
Now the hunt for the DVD recorder. -
re: Macrovision difficulties...
Most capture cards, DVD recorders, PVRs, and VHS recorders are built such that when receiving a source that is Macrovision encoded, the response is set to "Copyrighted material, CANNOT RECORD!" or similar.
If this is a problem, solutions for this are:
1. Find a recorder that doesn't act that way.
-or-
2. Get a TBC to put in between the VHS VCR and the DVD Recorder---SPECIFICALLY one that regenerates sync, but passes through line 21.
***THIS COULD BE RARE***
Do you need a DVD clip that has CC on it? If you can't find any from commercial sources, I have some that our company has created that I could send to you (couple of MB ISO).
Scott -
Thanks for clearing up the macrovision. The last time I got encounter with it was in the 80's. I was able to get around it with the TeleCaption II decoder. I forgot about it. They still use that today?
You can send me the DVD clip as I could practice on it while I hunt for a DVD recorder. Is this any different than the DVD movies one buys? -
No, besides being put onto DVD-recordable media as opposed to stamped, factory pressed media at stores, it is an identical type program.
Should have something for you tomorrow...
Scott -
I have a Telecation II, did you know that it can output OPEN captions which are then recorded? Yep. That way is the fastest way to get from closed to open captions.
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The WINFAST TV2000 XP EXPERT will pass closed captions for recording. You CAN capture the CCs and the video in only one pass. There is also a firmware that allows a MVed video to pass, but I haven't tested this.
DVD recorders are supposed to capture live CCs, but I don't have one, so I cannot comment. However, if it does capture line 21, then you can use any MPEG2 editor to cut and paste, while still retaining the line 21 data.
Closed captions are a pain-in-the-ass to do correctly, but they are also NOT difficult. If you really are clueless, then start reading. McPoodle's package is a good place to start.ICBM target coordinates:
26° 14' 10.16"N -- 80° 16' 0.91"W -
Sorry it took such a long time...
Ok, here's an ISO of a DVDclip w/ vid+aud+cc+subs ~=12MB in 7zip format:
http://www.cornucopiadm.com/goodies/ccClip_dvdImage.7z
Let me know how it goes...
Scott -
McPoodle's method apparently does NOT work with ATI cards.
However, his conversion software does, and there is a very simple method to extract the CC info from a captured ATI file. The editing gets a bit tricky, but is certainly doable.
The bitch with ATI is that the format with CC is Non-Standard MPG, and conversion removes the CC, so you have to extract, convert, and then edit video and CC seperately, but identically.
One recommendation is to spend some time watching original content with CC turned on. I wasted a lot of time trying to perfect a method to get the captions perfectly matched, before I discovered that they were often off by quite a bit in the original source. This is mainly simple timing, but there are also numerous mis-spellings, changes, and completely missing lines. Quality seems to be proportional to original overall budget for the production.
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