Format Wars: Blu-Ray Pulls Ahead?

[Xylob the Destroyer]

...Minimum wage keeps increasing which increases the cost of products....

are you shitting me???
minimum wage hasn't gone up in years


damn this thread didn't take long to go off-topic...

[adam]

Settlements mean nothing. They are business decisions. 99% of all cases settle. A settlement is a purchase of security, not a payment to hide something you have done. Trials are risky and always unpredictable regardless of the merits of your claim/defense. You pay out settlements so that you don't have to go through that risk. Your culpability or liability is just one of the factors you take into consideration when judging that risk.

[ROF]

minimum wage hasn't gone up in years

In the last ten years US federal minimum wage has gone up twice and that doesn't include different state minimums that have gone up too. I don't really see why you quoted this.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

sorry, I haven't worked for minimum wage since i was in high-school.....
It's not something that your average skilled adult really has to worry about. Especially if they have enough money to secure a PC that is modern enough to burn DVD's and they have enough free time to have 'video' as a hobby and spend hours a day surfing this site -- it has no relevancy in this discussion or even on this site....
I looked it up, it's an average of $5.50 - that should be more than enough to keep the cave trolls who live in their mommy's basement fully stocked on Doritos and Dr. Pepper while they fiddle with 20 sided dice and surf the net for elf porn....

I don't really see why you brought this issue into a thread about Blu-Ray vs. HDDVD, I fail to see what minimum wage has to do with any of this unless you have no reply and are just trolling.

It's the high-definition content (and how much you can cram onto a disc) and availability of product that will eventually decide the issue.
Beta-Max was superior in some ways than VHS, but not as easy to manufacture, and it was more expensive to buy.
Therefore more desirable/popular content was widely available on VHS, making it the winner.
The fact that VHS tapes cost less was secondary, from a consumer stand-point -- what mattered was that they were so much more readily available.
Manufacturing costs, of course, were a big part of the reason that they were cheaper, but since this shit isn't made in the United States, our minimum wage had nothing to do with the manufacturing costs.
Supposedly, HDDVD is going to be easier to manufacture (therefore cheaper?), which may very well wind up tipping the balance in it's favor.
More studios etc may be on board for Blu-Ray right now, but if it turns out to be a total pain in the ass, they could decide to go with HDDVD.

[GullyFoyle]

I never suggested that it was the way the civil justice system should work, just that it's the way it does work. The big guy probably can pound the little guy into submission, no matter who's right. Sucks.

We do have a Shit Sandwich legal system. The more bread you have the less shit you have.
I understood that whole settling is not an admission of guilt idea. I know settling is used in nuisance suits.
In this case the argument was the RIAA settled so were not found guilty. I figured if that logic applied to the RIAA then it applies to their victims.
Which would also mean that the RIAA inflates their conviction rate. Settled does not equate with guilty or convicted.
Gorvernment and corporate speak hurts my head.

[Cornucopia]

[quote="GullyFoyle"]

Gorvernment and corporate speak hurts my head.

Amen, brother!

Scott

[ROF]

sorry, I haven't worked for minimum wage since i was in high-school.....
It's not something that your average skilled adult really has to worry about.

I don't really see why you brought this issue into a thread about Blu-Ray vs. HDDVD, I fail to see what minimum wage has to do with any of this unless you have no reply and are just trolling.

The reason I brought it up is because Gullyfoyle asked: "Does anyone really think game production and developement costs have risen that much in such a short time?"

I can't help it if you took my reply out of context and clung to something which all wage earners including those in triple digits need be concerned about. Each time minimum wage is raised your buying power no matter which wage bracket you are in becomes less and less. I'm sorry if you do not understand this or you think people earning above minimum are unconcerned about it but the fact is most people are concerned about having their dollars buy less and less.

That is why game production and development costs have gone up which was my point about minimum wages effect on everything from a loaf of bread to Plasma TV Screens. Everyone in the chain to bring you your daily products and services must be paid more therefore the cost of products increase. When wage rates at the bottom are forced upward it has a trickle effect all the way up the chain. Don't they teach that in high school economics?

[adam]

Which would also mean that the RIAA inflates their conviction rate. Settled does not equate with guilty or convicted.

Last time I checked the RIAA does not have the authority to prosecute or convict anyone. Whether criminal copyright charges are pressed are a matter for the Federal Government to handle. The RIAA and MPAA suits in question have been civil in nature and yes they have all been settled out of court so far. In what way have these organizations hidden this information or otherwise inflated their legal success rates? Can you show me any press release where either of these organizations have falsely claimed to have received a judgement?

Since all of these suits are civil suits, "guilt" and "conviction" are not even applicable.

[GullyFoyle]

...Minimum wage keeps increasing which increases the cost of products....

are you shitting me???
minimum wage hasn't gone up in years


damn this thread didn't take long to go off-topic...

it's gone up in new York. I think to $7 in 2007 and $6.45 in 2006.

[ROF]

Am correct in that guilt in a civil suit is termed as a "judgement against" not a conviction?

[GullyFoyle]

Which would also mean that the RIAA inflates their conviction rate. Settled does not equate with guilty or convicted.

Last time I checked the RIAA does not have the authority to prosecute or convict anyone. Whether criminal copyright charges are pressed are a matter for the Federal Government to handle. The RIAA and MPAA suits in question have been civil in nature and yes they have all been settled out of court so far. In what way have these organizations hidden this information or otherwise inflated their legal success rates? Can you show me any press release where either of these organizations have falsely claimed to have received a judgement?

Since all of these suits are civil suits, "guilt" and "conviction" are not even applicable.

if they don't have the authority to either prosecute or convict how do they get the authority to snoop on computers? Surely private companies don't have that legal right.
Are you suggesting that the RIAA is circumventing the law by hiring private contractors to ILLEGALLY gain evidence against poor unsuspecting people? Evidence that many times is faulty.
I thought ONLY the government could do search.

[GullyFoyle]

Am correct in that guilt in a civil suit is termed as a "judgement against" not a conviction?

How did the corporate talking points have it explained to you?

[ROF]

Am correct in that guilt in a civil suit is termed as a "judgement against" not a conviction?

How did the corporate talking points have it explained to you?

Judgement Against.

[GullyFoyle]

Settlements mean nothing. They are business decisions. 99% of all cases settle. A settlement is a purchase of security, not a payment to hide something you have done. Trials are risky and always unpredictable regardless of the merits of your claim/defense. You pay out settlements so that you don't have to go through that risk. Your culpability or liability is just one of the factors you take into consideration when judging that risk.

So the law really does protect the rich at the expense of the poor.
And justice for all, sorry for JUST US RICH!

[GullyFoyle]

Am correct in that guilt in a civil suit is termed as a "judgement against" not a conviction?

How did the corporate talking points have it explained to you?

Judgement Against.

They really do want you to read your paperwork and understand the talking points. They aren't just guidlines.
Why should they pay you for bad acting?

[ROF]

Settlements mean nothing. They are business decisions. 99% of all cases settle. A settlement is a purchase of security, not a payment to hide something you have done. Trials are risky and always unpredictable regardless of the merits of your claim/defense. You pay out settlements so that you don't have to go through that risk. Your culpability or liability is just one of the factors you take into consideration when judging that risk.

So the law really does protect the rich at the expense of the poor.
And justice for all, sorry for JUST US RICH!

Not really, I dare say 75% or better of the settled cases are settled by the poor in order to avoid long and expensive trials with the possibility of a very large judgement not in their favor.

[ROF]

Am correct in that guilt in a civil suit is termed as a "judgement against" not a conviction?

How did the corporate talking points have it explained to you?

Judgement Against.

They really do want you to read your paperwork and understand the talking points. They aren't just guidlines.
Why should they pay you for bad acting?

I didn't get the memo.

[adam]

Any chance you guys can start consolidating your points into single posts cause this is very difficult to follow.

ROF: If you are guilty of a crime you are convicted. If you are liable for the plaintiff's civil cause of action then they are given a judgement against you ordering you to do something, usually pay money.

GullyFoyle: There are numerous cases holding that you have no expectation of privacy in your ip address when online and there are also cases holding that there is no expectation of privacy in the contents of a shared folder when using P2P services. This shouldn't really be a suprise since anyone can log on and obtain this information since you are in fact broadcasting it to the world. Obtaining such information for use in a civil suit against that individual is perfectly legal and has been done by many other entities besides the RIAA or MPAA.

There is currently litigation in process accusing the RIAA of using illegal means to access someone's computer to obtain evidence, above and beyond the methods I mentioned above. At this point, these are just allegations and after I read the petition it really sounds to me like they were in fact challenging the practice of viewing ips and shared directories. If this is true I expect that the lawsuit will go nowhere. In the meantime the case is just pending, we'll have to wait to see what the result is.

Regarding my summation of settlements, I don't understand how you conclude that settlements only favor the "rich". It is fact that the "rich" that usually have to pay out since they are usually the ones being sued. No one is ever forced to settle. You always have the option of taking your case to a trial. People do settle it because its favorable to trial, whether you are rich or poor.

[ROF]

With five out of the six major motion picture studios and a next generation console support, blu-ray is quickly taking the lead in the new format war.

[lenti_75]

until prices aren't low enough....NO ONE will win.

who's willing to pay 300+ or god knows how much for a player ???

[ROF]

My first VCR and DVD Player cost about that price or more.

[GullyFoyle]

Any chance you guys can start consolidating your points into single posts cause this is very difficult to follow.

ROF: If you are guilty of a crime you are convicted. If you are liable for the plaintiff's civil cause of action then they are given a judgement against you ordering you to do something, usually pay money.

GullyFoyle: There are numerous cases holding that you have no expectation of privacy in your ip address when online and there are also cases holding that there is no expectation of privacy in the contents of a shared folder when using P2P services. This shouldn't really be a suprise since anyone can log on and obtain this information since you are in fact broadcasting it to the world. Obtaining such information for use in a civil suit against that individual is perfectly legal and has been done by many other entities besides the RIAA or MPAA.

There is currently litigation in process accusing the RIAA of using illegal means to access someone's computer to obtain evidence, above and beyond the methods I mentioned above. At this point, these are just allegations and after I read the petition it really sounds to me like they were in fact challenging the practice of viewing ips and shared directories. If this is true I expect that the lawsuit will go nowhere. In the meantime the case is just pending, we'll have to wait to see what the result is.

Regarding my summation of settlements, I don't understand how you conclude that settlements only favor the "rich". It is fact that the "rich" that usually have to pay out since they are usually the ones being sued. No one is ever forced to settle. You always have the option of taking your case to a trial. People do settle it because its favorable to trial, whether you are rich or poor.

first I seriously doubt just anyone can log on and get information about what is in your computer. If that is the case then why bother with a firewall?
The real fact is poor people can not afford to go to trial so they settle. This is the same reason people plea bargain.
The law does favor the rich through the monetary medium. OJ anyone, or Michael Jackson or any big name athlete actor politician or just simple fat cat. They have the ability to afford the PRIVILEGE of expensive legal representation. Something your average working class person can not do.
I'm even amazed you could bring something like that up. This type of thing is in the news all the time. Matter of fact one of either Bush or Cheney's lawyers managed to have some rich guy beat a murder rap and found guilty of obstruction because he chopped up the body!
Can you imagine some working poor or middle class guy getting off that way? I can't.
Classism is far more devestating than racism is.

[GullyFoyle]

until prices aren't low enough....NO ONE will win.

who's willing to pay 300+ or god knows how much for a player ???

Give it a year and prices will be cut in half, except for game systems. It takes nearly until the end of the models life for prices to drop.

[adam]

Well it seems you've got it all figured out GullyFoyle.

[robertazimmerman]

until prices aren't low enough....NO ONE will win.

who's willing to pay 300+ or god knows how much for a player ???

Geeeeeezzzz. Price isn't everything. My first 2-heard VCR cost me $1,200 and my first DVD player was $900. I got lots of use out of both of them and never felt ripped off.

Early adopters pay premiums, but they get to enjoy the new formats earlier.

robertazimmerman