I need a cheap Progressive Scan TV (I'm also a moron)

[duderdude2]

Alright, I haven't bought a new TV in ten years, and my current one just died, so I'm looking to upgrade slightly.

Ideally, I'd like a TV in the 25"-30" range, hopefully with progressive scan capibilities. Are there any good deals out there for such a TV? I'm on a budget, so I'm hoping I won't have to pay much more than $300 for such a TV.

As I don't know much about progressive scan, can I even hope to find a progressive scan TV within that price range?

Thanks!

[redwudz]

More like $600-800 for a progressive scan TV in that size range. It would be a HDTV or EDTV set. Take a look here for some info about HDTV.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdtv.htm

[duderdude2]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not looking for an HDTV...or at least I don't think I am.

Is 480p considered hi-def? That's what I'm looking for, and unless I'm mistaken (which is quite possible), that's not considered an HD resolution.

Either way, if you're right about the price point, it looks like I'll be sticking with good ol' 480i for a few more years.

[FulciLives]

Here is the cheapest I could find on the 'net

CIRCUIT CITY
They have a 27" Flat Screen Tube HDTV by Magnavox for $399.99
They also have a 27" Flat Screen Tube HDTV by Advent for $399.99

BEST BUY
They have a 27" Flat Screen Tube HTDV by Insignia for $397.99

WALMART
I couldn't find anything all that cheap on the website but I have noticed that many WALMART locations have televisions, same at really good prices, that never show up on the WALMART website.

Anyways looks like $400 is as cheap as you can get for a HDTV but I should point out that none of these models feature a HDMI connection which is quickly becomming the de facto connection for future HDTV devices such as the upcomming HDTV DVD format(s). In other words it probably is NOT a good idea to buy an HDTV that does not have a HDMI connection.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Any of these would be fine for 480P from a progressive scan DVD player as well as being HDTV capable but without HDMI I would question just how "future proof" they are for HDTV use.

[duderdude2]

Thanks very much for the info. Just two more things:

Would you happen to have any links for any of the items you listed above? I looked around for them, and I think I may have found a couple of those, but I'm not positive since I couldn't find any reference to progressive scan. I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right things.

Also, I'm still a bit confused about the whole HDTV thing. Is 480p considered HD? Because 480p is all I want, I'm not too concerned about higher resolutions, so I don't think not having HDMI would be a problem for me. Am I right?

Thanks again!

[FulciLives]

Thanks very much for the info. Just two more things:

Would you happen to have any links for any of the items you listed above? I looked around for them, and I think I may have found a couple of those, but I'm not positive since I couldn't find any reference to progressive scan. I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right things.

Also, I'm still a bit confused about the whole HDTV thing. Is 480p considered HD? Because 480p is all I want, I'm not too concerned about higher resolutions, so I don't think not having HDMI would be a problem for me. Am I right?

Thanks again!

There are two types of PROGRESSIVE SCAN televisions.

EDTV which can do 480P
HDTV which can do 480P plus HDTV resolutions like 1080i

Almost nobody makes EDTV except for a few PLASMA televisions so basically if you want 480P you need a HDTV.

LINKS below as per your request:

Magnavox 27" HDTV Monitor (27MT5405) at Circuit City for $399.99

Advent 27" HDTV Monitor (HT2778A) at Circuit City for $399.99

Insignia 27" HD-Ready Stereo TV (IS-TV040928) at Best Buy for $397.99

I know your budget is low ... I feel your pain as I am planning to get a HDTV of some sort for Christmas ... but if you go just a bit more you can get a HDTV with HDMI and that would be the thing to do.

However a HDTV with HDMI is going to be at least $600 and at that price range you are looking at a 27" 4:3 (as the televisions above are) or a 26" 16x9 TV.

I just looked at Circuit City and they have two Panasonic models ... both with HDMI ... one is a 27" 4:3 at $550 and the other is a 26" 16x9 at $600

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[duderdude2]

Thanks so much for the links, and for the help. That Magnavox looks pretty good. However, I also looked into the 26" 16x9 Panasonic, and that set also looks really appealing (even though I said it was higher than my budget .

I do have just a couple more question though (if you don't mind).

Would it be better to purchase the 27" 4:3 Magnavox or the 26" 16:9 Panasonic? Do they support the same resolutions? Also, wouldn't the 16x9s screen be quite a bit smaller than the 4:3 Magnavox? And do they support the same resolutions?

Essentially, I'll be playing mostly video games on the TV, so I'm looking for a good sized TV, with decent picture quality.

Thanks again so much for your help!


Here's the 16x9 Panasonic:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-26-HDTV-Monitor-CT-26WX15-/sem/rpsm/oid/12379...oductDetail.do

And the Magnavox you linked to earlier:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Magnavox-27-HDTV-Monitor-27MT5405-/sem/rpsm/oid/119980/...oductDetail.do

[edDV]

Thanks so much for the links, and for the help. That Magnavox looks pretty good. However, I also looked into the 26" 16x9 Panasonic, and that set also looks really appealing (even though I said it was higher than my budget .

I do have just a couple more question though (if you don't mind).

Would it be better to purchase the 27" 4:3 Magnavox or the 26" 16:9 Panasonic? Do they support the same resolutions? Also, wouldn't the 16x9s screen be quite a bit smaller than the 4:3 Magnavox? And do they support the same resolutions?

Essentially, I'll be playing mostly video games on the TV, so I'm looking for a good sized TV, with decent picture quality.

Thanks again so much for your help!


Here's the 16x9 Panasonic:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-26-HDTV-Monitor-CT-26WX15-/sem/rpsm/oid/12379...oductDetail.do

And the Magnavox you linked to earlier:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Magnavox-27-HDTV-Monitor-27MT5405-/sem/rpsm/oid/119980/...oductDetail.do

The Panasonic is the better set but why did you have everyone searching for a $300 set when you have $499 to spend?

The magnavox is a feature reduced version of a similar Philips set that includes a 3D comb filter and the HDMI connector.

These sets will work great with a progressive DVD player but how do you plan to get a 480p output from a video game? What are you using?

[duderdude2]

The Panasonic is the better set but why did you have everyone searching for a $300 set when you have $499 to spend?

Because I didn't think one could get a TV that nice for that price, which is why I capped my expense at $300; I didn't want to spend more than that for a 4:3 TV. But since FulciLives brought up the Panasonic, I thought I would entertain the option, alright?

These sets will work great with a progressive DVD player but how do you plan to get a 480p output from a video game

The same way one would out of a DVD player. The GameCube and Xbox both support Component cables, and with specific games, progressive scan.

[edDV]

I thought they were only doing 1080i. Guess I'm out of date on those game boxes.

And they are doing 16:9 games now?

[duderdude2]

I thought they were only doing 1080i. Guess I'm out of date on those game boxes.

And they are doing 16:9 games now?

Some do, depends on the game. The new Xbox 360 though will support 720p as a default for all games (though 480p still works as well). 1080i is also supported, but it seems most developers prefer the 720p

[edDV]

Progressive is the way to go for game boxes.

[FulciLives]

That brings up another issue ... some HDTV's will not work with 720p and the Panasonic models fall into that catagory. I believe the 720p gets "downgraded" to 480p whereas other HDTV sets will "up convert" from 720p to 1080i ... and of course as Murphy's Law would have it ... almost none will show 720p as 720p.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yoda313]

Those are great prices fucli. But it looks like none of the links you posted have built in HD receivers. They have conventional tuners yes but for full HD programing you'd need to buy an adapter.

Though for gaming and DVD's that wouldn't be an issue.

Just FYI.

(correct me if I'm wrong but they all seemed to be HD READY not HD BUILT IN )

[edDV]

That brings up another issue ... some HDTV's will not work with 720p and the Panasonic models fall into that catagory. I believe the 720p gets "downgraded" to 480p whereas other HDTV sets will "up convert" from 720p to 1080i ... and of course as Murphy's Law would have it ... almost none will show 720p as 720p.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

True, 480p should be the target and the screens are only good for about 800x600 anyway.

[duderdude2]

Potentially dumb question, but will 480p look good on those sets (such as the Magnavox one)? How does it work if the displayed resolution is less than the TVs actual resolution? Does it border the image, or expand it to fill the screen?

[edDV]

Those are great prices fucli. But it looks like none of the links you posted have built in HD receivers. They have conventional tuners yes but for full HD programing you'd need to buy an adapter.

Though for gaming and DVD's that wouldn't be an issue.

Just FYI.

(correct me if I'm wrong but they all seemed to be HD READY not HD BUILT IN )

True, you need to add a an over the air tuner, a HD cable box or HD sat box to get HD or SD progressive.

A good over the air tuner at a reasonable price is this one. These will rapidly drop in price as the analog shutoff gets closer.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2598451

[edDV]

Potentially dumb question, but will 480p look good on those sets (such as the Magnavox one)? How does it work if the displayed resolution is less than the TVs actual resolution? Does it border the image, or expand it to fill the screen?

This class of sets usually has around equiv 800x600 resolution which is more than enough for DVD. For games, 480p 720x480 progressive would be displayed directly at either 29.97 or 58.94 frames per second.

Most can't handle 720p inputs at all.

1080i will be actually scanned 1920x1080 interlaced but the CRT phosphor dot pitch will filter the user display down to around 800x600.

You need to experiment with which looks best.

We are assuming here that these game boxes are actually rendering the game to 720x480 progressive or 1920x1080 interlaced. That is highly unlikely. If all the game does is scale a 640x480 or 800x600 square pixel raster, then results will be less dramatic.

As for the Magnavox, it is a feature reduced version of the older Philips PT830H. Nowhere so far do the specs say that 480p capability is still in the spec, nor do we know if the same CRT is used.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AAAW7/102-3031836-7992152?v=glance&n=172282

Here is a more complete spec that indicates the a comb filter is supplied but maybe not the 3D comb filter. The tube horizontal resolution spec is not given. This spec makes it look much more like the PT830H which sold last year for $699.

http://www.magnavox.com/index.cfm?event=main&cat_id=1&subcat_id=5&product=47
http://www.usasupport.magnavox.com/productDocuments.html?ProductCode=27MT5405/17&Searc...ByModelNo=true
http://www.p4c.philips.com/na4/2/27mt5405_17/27mt5405_17_pss_aen.pdf

The rear connector panel is identical to the PT830H except it is lacking the digital input (PT830H had VGA, DVI or HDMI in various versions)

[duderdude2]

Wow, that's a lot of information.

So if I understand you correctly, the Magnavox does not support 480p?

[edDV]

Wow, that's a lot of information.

So if I understand you correctly, the Magnavox does not support 480p?

It looks like it does. Check with manuafacturer to make sure.

[duderdude2]

So it does have progressive scan then? Right on (though I'll check with the manuafacturer as suggested).

That looks like a pretty good price then for that set, is that right?

Thanks again for the help

[ebenton]

If you live where there's a Rex store (www.rexstores.com), they usually have pretty good prices. You might even be able to find a "discontinued" EDTV in one of the stores.

BTW, if you're "almost a moron", that would make you an imbecile, right?

[edDV]

Best price I''ve seen for a 1080i/480p set.

The spec says it will accept 480p inputs but nowhere does it say 480p display scan is supported. Never assume anything on a feature reduced model. Check first.

[duderdude2]

"HDTV resolutions supported: 480p, 1080i "

Does that mean it will display it, or is that still a vague comment?

From here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Philips_Magnavox_27MT5405_TV_27/4505-6485_7-31559129.html

And ebenton, I said I'm "also a moron," not "almost a moron"

[edDV]

"HDTV resolutions supported: 480p, 1080i "

Does that mean it will display it, or is that still a vague comment?

From here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Philips_Magnavox_27MT5405_TV_27/4505-6485_7-31559129.html

And ebenton, I said I'm "also a moron," not "almost a moron"

That is marketing legal reviewed speak and doesn't answer your question fully.

It means, you can attach a 480p or 1080i signal to the back of the TV but says nothing about how it will be displayed.

Most HDTV sets will accept and display 480p in progressive at 59.94 frames per second. Some will display it as 29.97 frames per second (576p and 50/25 for PAL regions).

Most HDTV sets will accept 1080i (1920x1080 interlaced) input signals but less than 5% have the ability to display 1920x1080. CRT sets usually top out around 800 "lines of horizontal resolution" or below. LCD and plasma HDTV's have a "native resolution" spec if you search or demand it.

In this specific case, they are removing features from the PT830H and aren't clear which features are present or lacking. You need to ask, or try it and return it if you don't like it.

The chances are better than 50/50 that the progressive display features were left in. The main feature cut was the HDMI connector* and the substitution of a "Digital comb filter" for the "3D Y/C digital comb filter.

*This set will not be usable with a HD DVD player (or HD DVR/Tuner if the broadcast flag passes). Both require HDCP encryption support. You would need a DVI or HDMI connector with HDCP support.

[matj]

I thought I'd add this link since duderdude2 asked about screen sizes earlier talking about the 4:3 27 inch and the 16:9 26 inch televisions.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7608_7-1016109-4.html

[ebenton]

"And ebenton, I said I'm "also a moron," not "almost a moron"

My mistake. With my erroneous read, I realize that you could have been either an imbecile striving to be a moron, or you could have been on the low end of normal, with a room-temperature IQ, striving to hang onto normalcy.
Thank you for clarifying your exact status.

[duderdude2]

Thank you for clarifying your exact status.

My pleasure.

[ebenton]

It's nice to see someone who can take a little teasing without going non-linear.

[funny guy]

The specs are always nice on paper but the true beauty is having the screen in front of you with a dvd or hd signal showing all it's glory. Go wander and just look at the different picture qualities yourself ( and tell the high school kid with the nose piercing you are just looking :P ).

I have seen TV's with great specs and poor picture and vice-versa. Find a few that interest you and research from there.This is one area where doing the leg work first seems to pay off in the end.

Most DVD movies are now 16X9, with 4X3 quickly taking a back seat.

Or you could always get the old set fixed and forget all this HD stuff for another ten years!